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Are these ponies worth it?

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  • Are these ponies worth it?

    So, I 've got two prospects going here, that I'm thinking of buying. (But only one!) One is a 14-year, 14 hand Un-registered Welsh, who's being sold because his owner, a 14-year-old girl, wants to move up to the 4 foot + jumpers (heaven help her!). I love the way his temperment looks (with her, anyway!, he's older, so I would think that would make him quieter... here's the video link : www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvvsXgqGl1I. They're asking
    $10k for him, negotiable.

    The other is 7 years, 13.2 hands, Registered Section B Welsh, by Glannant Keel. He's been trained primarily hunters, though he was trained some in dressage by Kaycee Welsh Ponies when he was about 4 or 5. He's $8,500, firm I think. I've ridden him twice before I had a horrible accident on another horse. I don't really know what to make of him. I'm very timid and I need a horse that will build my confidence, and well... the lady that's training him told my mom months ago that "he was WILD when I first got him; I almost sent him back!" I'm not sure what she ment by that, but... well, the first time I rode him, I totally lost my balance cantering, was hanging onto his neck, quite certain I was going to be eating dirt any second, and... he just stopped. Not a slam-the-brakes-on stop, just soft, gentle stop where I managed to sit back up, give a him a (shaky) pat on the neck, and dismount properly. And the second time, I was with the trainer at the facility he's at, and he just seemed like a DREAM to ride-- silky gaits, easy to steer, easy to stop (even though he could get a little speedy at the trot, he never ignored my aids when I asked him to slow down), light but not TOO light off the leg... At the time, though, I was really, in my heart, wanting a large, elegant, 16.1 + HORSE (though my mom thought I should get a pony, which why I looked at him). Now that's REVERSED, weirdly enough. I might add, despite what the lady who is training him said to my mom, I have never seen him spook, bolt, buck (not even in turn-out-- I've free-lunged him a couple of times), or kick or bite. He CAN get a teensy bit bratty about treats, but I have to say that I've never witnessed him doing anything dangerous undersaddle or really on the ground for that matter. He's also, in my opinion, pretty intelligent-- he can bow, count, "smile", "wave", and cross (his front legs). And he's even saved his trainer from a rattlesnake! (I live in Southern California, and he's out in Santa Clarita; the other one is in Ventura County) Still, because of his age, and what I HEARD... that's what gives me pause, not anything I've actually experienced. I wish I had a video so I could show you his gaits; he actually has a nice, fairly uphill canter, and a different trot than the palo; but the seller never made one and neither have I. (Though I 'm going to try sometime soon)
    Also, I would like to add, I KNOW small does not equal safe. I looked at a 14.2 13 year pony a long while back, and did not stick around after the first 5 minutes of riding her-- she had a horrible habit of rootingand nearly unseated me. And I know of another pony that is for sale at my local barn that I would not even TRY riding because she is incredibly spooky when she is standing inside of her own stall! And, I've looked at more than one horse that turned out to be such a sourpuss in person that I left without even getting on. Temperment IS a MAJOR factor for me-- I want an equine with a "puppydog personality". I don't know if anyone watched the entire video of the Palomino (who's name, by the way, is Popcorn), near the end the girl rides him BAREBACK AND BRIDLELESS, and then she gives him a hug at the very end of it. THAT'S the kind of personality I want! (But I don't think I could ever do bareback, with any horse, and DEF not bridleless!)

    Which of these do you think would be a better bet? Mind, I haven't actually seen the Palomino in person, while the other one I've ridden, so it's kind of a tough call... And, by the way, I'm only interested in dressage (which is why I'm posting this in this section), and also in-hand showing, if you can do that with a gelding.

    Edit: I am 5'2, 92-97 pounds (depending on whether I've been lazy and Cookie-Monsterish or not ) I've only been on a horse twice since my accident. She was a 16.2 Hanoverian X, and being up there on her TERRIFIED me. Besides, I like the idea of a pony. Also, to add more info on the Palomino: he's been schooled in leg-yields, shoulder-in, haunches-in/out, and has a flying change, so I think he probably about 2nd level dressage, and could likely do 3rd. I guess what I'd really like to know is, what could I offer for him? (The Palo) And please, NO being a rude jerk about it! You aren't the ones selling him.
    Last edited by Sparkling_Sunset; Sep. 3, 2009, 11:40 PM. Reason: Additional info

  • #2
    I think you could get a lot more dressage pony for those prices.

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    • #3
      The palomino looks quick and energetic, not a good choice for a person lacking confidence. And...Why buy a hunter to do dressage? Especially if you lack confidence, buy a trained, experienced, quiet older dressage horse that has been trained in dressage, ridden in dressage shows, NOT a retraining project. It will be a lot cheaper than these (factoring in retraining costs). The back on the palomino is not correct, and he looks a little uneven.
      Last edited by slc2; Sep. 3, 2009, 07:11 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Uh, do you need a pony? Because if you get something 14.3 you'll get a LOT cheaper. That first pony looks a lot like my daughter's 1/2 welsh hony, and he'd be dirt cheap in this market even though he's been in steady dressage training and is going pretty well, and jumps too.

        Even for ponies, if you get something with no jump you'll save a lot of money.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'd be careful not to buy something too narrow for an adult to ride (even small adult). The deeper the pony the better your chance of fitting him/her well.
          Redbud Ranch
          Check us out on FB

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          • #6
            AGE DOES NOT = QUIET small does not = safe

            For the price ( 10,000) you could find a nice steady confirmed 2nd level horse. This one is not even showing viable training level work.

            I suggest working with a trainer to find a nice steady properly trained horse. For $10,000 you can find something trained for purpose and with and temper you need. If you are a timid rider the last thing you need is to tackle training a horse to a new discipline.

            I am not trying to harsh you , I am trying to give you the wisdom of been there done that mistake

            shoot, if he was a little more sound I would give you mine
            _\\]
            -- * > hoopoe
            Procrastinate NOW
            Introverted Since 1957

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            • #7
              Agree with hoopoe, my welshx is 12 and can be quite hot. He is slowly learning to use his cuteness for good rather than evil, but ponies can be... fun

              Of course, if you had 3x that amount, I'd say you need to buy the mobile horse supply lady's PSG mare That's the one I would want if I was petite!

              http://www.mobilehorsesupply.com/ima...m/Mollie-2.jpg

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              • #8
                well, i think you can do better for the amount. a lot better.

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                • #9
                  The right pony is out there. I do like small, but of course small is not necessarily quiet. (Small is easier to sit if there is an incident.) Don't feel limited to these two. It sounds like you have doubts about them.

                  Welshes are of course lovely, but you might also find what you're looking for in a Morgan, a QH, a Connemara, a Haflinger, or somewhere else. In this price range, you should be able to find what you seek.
                  If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

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                  • #10
                    Don't like the first one. Not really even ready for training level. He seems off balance in the canter esp. and he looks like he might be a handful. The rider is very handsy, not sure if its because she is trying to keep his attention or just the way she rides. I wouldn't pay 10K for that pony. The second without seeing is hard to say but I wouldn't get a primarly hunter horse for dressage unless you want to take the time and have the confidence in retraining him. (but some hunter horses got easily into dressage) I'd pass on both and keep looking.
                    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

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                    • #11
                      The palomino is quite cute, but may never do above Training level dressage. If you are interested in him, you need to ride him at least 3 times to be sure he is as calm as you need. I would also talk with people who know him. If they say he bucks or is difficult at times, he is not for you. I like that the kid has done lots of things with him. I had a Irish Draught who was raised by an Irish family with 15 kids. Then, my kids evented, pony clubbed and did polocrosse with him. By the time he became my horse, he was totally bombproof.

                      Don't be in a hurry to buy. Your best bet may be an arrangement where you can lease to purchase. We have done that with several of our horses. After a month of riding them, you will know if it is the right one. If it isn't the right one, at least the seller has $500 or whatever amount of your money. Of course, every horse that we did the lease purchase on was perfect. We fell in love and finished the purchase. Be sure the horse is fully insured, at your expense, during the month.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Edit: I am 5'2, 92-97 pounds (depending on whether I've been lazy and Cookie-Monsterish or not ) I've only been on a horse twice since my accident. She was a 16.2 Hanoverian X, and being up there on her TERRIFIED me. Besides, I like the idea of a pony. Also, to add more info on the Palomino: he's been schooled in leg-yields, shoulder-in, haunches-in/out, and has a flying change, so I think he probably about 2nd level dressage, and could likely do 3rd. I guess what I'd really like to know is, what could I offer for him? (The Palo) And please, NO being a rude jerk about it! You aren't the ones selling him.

                        Ponies...they don't call them pony-brained for nothing.

                        Just because they are ponies, doesn't mean they are easier or safer. The palomino looks like alot of horse.

                        That said, I love ponies. I have a 14.3 Andy that my sick Mom (balance problems, arthritis, liver bad, shouldn't ride, but won't do anything else) rides every day that will go out and move xc. He has a great temperment because he reads the rider. That's the kind of horse you need.

                        You need a quiet steady mount. Don't get hung up on what you think you like. And with your history, you should make sure you get one on trial or ride it at the venue over several days to make sure that horse/pony can take your fear and maintain training and quietness over time.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by gardenie View Post
                          I have a 14.3 Andy that my sick Mom (balance problems, arthritis, liver bad, shouldn't ride, but won't do anything else) rides every day that will go out and move xc. He has a great temperment because he reads the rider. That's the kind of horse you need.
                          the andalusian (or maybe lusitano) idea isn't a bad one. i don't think the palomino is worth the 10k- it seems you should be able to get something nicer for that much.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The Palomino is easily worth $10k as a hunter/jumper pony, but as a dressage pony, even though he may have "schooled" haunches-in etc, he does not currently have enough suspension in his gait to go above training level. That's not to say he couldn't develop it, but at 14 he's a few years of schooling away at best from that 2nd or 3rd level test, if that is what you're looking to do.
                            If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              [QUOTE]
                              Originally posted by Sparkling_Sunset View Post
                              So, I 've got two prospects going here, that I'm thinking of buying. (But only one!) One is a 14-year, 14 hand Un-registered Welsh, who's being sold because his owner, a 14-year-old girl, wants to move up to the 4 foot + jumpers (heaven help her!). I love the way his temperment looks (with her, anyway!, he's older, so I would think that would make him quieter... here's the video link : www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvvsXgqGl1I. They're asking
                              $10k for him, negotiable.
                              ummm well....the short answer is, not in my lifetime

                              best
                              Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                              I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I went back and watched the video again....JMO but he doesnt seem to move through his back and drags his toes quite a bit behind. Im not an expert but most of the time he isnt connected and I'd be interested in seeing his reactions when he is asked to work a little more round over his topline (in trot and canter). Just judging by what I can see of him naked he doesnt look like he has appropriate muscling for a pony who's been working correctly. IMO his canter looks short and shuffling at least in this video. As strictly a dressage prospect I think you could do better for the money. As an all around kids mount he could very well be worth every penny.
                                Redbud Ranch
                                Check us out on FB

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                                • #17
                                  The Palo pony is just not worth 10K for dressage. The pony doesn't readily work from behind and round into the bit. Watch the half halts the girl is giving, the are very noticeable because he is not listening to sudtle ones probably and he doesn't want to push into the bit and round like he should. His whole look to me looks artificial and is in a "frame" more than anything. He is off balance and just because he can "do" leg yields and shoulder/haunches in/out doesn't mean he is a 2nd level dressage horse nor possibly 3rd. My horse does all the above and we are in traning level!! Why, because the amount of collection they start asking for in 2nd level he is not ready for, nor is this pony. He is not muscled well for correct 2nd level work either. My horse also now does rollbacks (we taught this for fun) and neck reins but that doesn't mean he is ready for the reining/cutting pen. If you are really really set on the palo. I'd offer no more than 5K for the pony and that is high IMO also. I don't want to sound mean, believe me, but I don't want you to have the wool pulled over your eyes either. Has the horse been shown at 2nd level??? Or even 1st??? I'd want scores in training in the high 60's for 10K for a pony. JMO. Also is he lengthen in the trot yet?? If not then he is not even in 1st level yet. He also doesn't show much bend at all yet on his circles. He is cute, I'll give him that, and could possibly be a nice dressage pony for lower levels with some more work. The question is do you want to do that work or do you want something that is ready to go?
                                  Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Sparkling_Sunset View Post
                                    So, I 've got two prospects going here, that I'm thinking of buying. (But only one!) One is a 14-year, 14 hand Un-registered Welsh, who's being sold because his owner, a 14-year-old girl, wants to move up to the 4 foot + jumpers (heaven help her!). I love the way his temperment looks (with her, anyway!, he's older, so I would think that would make him quieter... here's the video link : www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvvsXgqGl1I. They're asking
                                    $10k for him, negotiable.
                                    I think the Palomino is more of a walking horse than a welsh. Way over priced IMO
                                    Boss Mare Eventing Blog
                                    https://www.youtube.com/user/jealoushe

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Again, ponies that jump bring a premium. Honies that don't are much cheaper for the same dressage potential (a horse that is above the 14.2 limit for h/j ponies). There is a lot of range in between 16.2 and 13 hands.

                                      If you are looking for dressage bang for your buck, you will be much better off with something that has not competed in h/j.

                                      You can get a LOT more pony for $10k if you get something without the h/j show miles.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I agree with everyone else. That palomino is cute cute cute!!!! But... if you haven't ridden him, you don't know if you will be getting what you want from him (temperment, training) and his price tag is high because he jumps. Ponytude is a bad, bad thing. They all look so sweet and innocent, but especially the ones that have been handled by kids have been allowed to get away with all sorts of stuff and are just naughty.

                                        For the money you are looking at spending, you should be able to find something with more solid dressage training, either something fancy with a solid start, or something a little less fancy with some actual miles. There's lots of smaller horses out there that are going for less $$ just because they are under 16 hands, and not warmbloods.

                                        This summer I picked up a very fancy tb mare that is 15.1, she was a bargain I'm sure because of her height, but the way she moves makes her everything I need in my prospect because I kinda like riding the smaller horses! The has brains and beauty, no spook, no buck, just enough forward to be fun. I also have a 15.2 qh that is not as fancy, but has done EVERYTHING. He's shown dressage, hunters, wp, and has done mini events. He's trail ridden everywhere, he's been a little girl's horse and a husband's horse. Now he's my school horse, and everyone just loves him... but one of my students won at a recognized show on him this summer! So he's got solid training in there if someone knows how to ride. But he's an off-breed for dressage, and small, so probably you could find one like him in your budget.

                                        I think for you, a small horse with a good mind and solid basic training (or more), ideally some show and/or trail experience would be good (so you know how they handle those sorts of things). Something you can grow with and not out of. And in your case, I think it's very important that you can ride the horse before you buy... multiple times. You need a horse that you trust, and a horse that is going to work with you and not challenge you or take advantage of you. That part is tricky to buy over the internet! Also, a good trainer that understands your situation and can help you find and then become comfortable riding your new horse would be a plus!

                                        Good luck!!
                                        Gallant Gesture "Liam" 1995 chestnut ottb gelding
                                        Mr. Painter "Remy" 2006 chestnut ottb gelding
                                        My Training Blog: www.dressagefundamentals.com

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