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High Scores in Euros Question

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  • High Scores in Euros Question

    I think it is wonderful that the Euro Championships had such high scores. My question is is this because the rides were that much better than in the past or have the judges changed their scales?
    Anyone that there have an opinion??

  • #2
    The quality of the horses is much better and the riders are able to ride better, correct tests (no mistakes).

    And the judges are no longer afraid to give 9s and 10s
    --
    Europe\'s Largest Dressage and Breeding News Related Website
    http://www.eurodressage.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by eurodressage View Post
      The quality of the horses is much better and the riders are able to ride better, correct tests (no mistakes).

      And the judges are no longer afraid to give 9s and 10s
      Must agree and have observed that this level of rider can truely direct each step their horse takes which is truely the WC, OG, Championship level of the art of riding.
      SLG

      Comment


      • #4
        I was there for the GP and GPS and you would not have believed the quality of the horses and the riders. Just blew me away.

        Comment


        • #5
          I do think that the old 80's are the new 90's..... Any opinions?
          Siegi Belz
          www.stalleuropa.com
          2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
          Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.

          Comment


          • #6
            i was also there and have to totally agree, the standard was unbelievable and the riders got the marks they deserved errors, the top riders pulled out perfection or near perfection with very few errors, it was a privilege to be.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Euro Championship scores

              That's amazing that there could be that much improvement in one year since the Olympics!! Incredible!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Hrsedq View Post
                Must agree and have observed that this level of rider can truely direct each step their horse takes which is truely the WC, OG, Championship level of the art of riding.
                you know..... and this might the exact reason i dont like modern dressage. what ever happened to the horse looking as if it were doing it all on its own? what ever happened to harmony? and self carriage?

                nowadays it is all so robotically controlled... each . and. every . step. the horse dare not complain, have an opinion etc etc.

                kinda like this:

                http://pixofthelitter.net/pixofthelitter_007.htm

                and is this prescience or what: http://pixofthelitter.net/pixofthelitter_014.htm (scroll down to tarantalus)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Classical DQ View Post
                  That's amazing that there could be that much improvement in one year since the Olympics!! Incredible!!
                  I am not sure whether you're being sarcastic or not, but it's true! Did you see any rides like Gal's latest at the olympics? A horse with that level of athleticism and talent, ridden with that level of accuracy, and with such calmness, submission, and complete "can do" attitude?

                  If I recall, one of the horses that scored well in the olympics was rather balky and grouchy

                  I am, honestly, among those who don't love Totilas' larger movement, but I do love the talent and heart he throws into dressage and how effortless he makes it all look.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ambrey - i guess it all depends on what you think "good" is.... while i agree totilas is althetic - i dont like how the top horses go. spectacular sure - but forced and dare is say - ugly.

                    that is not what dressage is supposed to be. give me rides that are more harmonious and ummmm..... less forced.... more relaxed - aka the rides from years back aka klimke, etc. or even some of the top rides that are not breaking 80% - like the younger klimkes, theodorescu, our own Peters, Seidel, or the many other riders that seem to be able to ride more softy and less robotically. i dont even like to watch the top rides.... it just makes me sad and mad. i feel like a beautiful art form has been hijacked .....

                    i guess what i am trying to say is there is more to dressage than just doing the movements with no "errors" ... there is the whole emotional thing, the horse "dancing" with its rider, harmony, lightness, grace, self carriage etc etc etc.
                    Last edited by mbm; Aug. 30, 2009, 12:49 AM. Reason: dag gum dyslexia getting in the way.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mbm View Post
                      With flame suit firmly in place, I will say that I found this to be hysterically funny and accurate in a sad kind of way
                      Lowly Farm Hand with Delusions of Barn Biddieom.
                      Witherun Farm
                      http://witherun-farm.blogspot.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mbm View Post

                        i guess what i am trying to say is there is more to dressage than just doing the movements with no "errors" ... there is the whole emotional thing, the horse "dancing" with its rider, harmony, lightness, grace, self carriage etc etc etc.
                        And even considering all of those things, Totilas' most recent ride is much nicer than the winning rides in the olympics, don't you think?

                        Personally, I see Totilas "dancing with his rider." Maybe in your effort to find the negative, you're missing the positives?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          ahhh, but i am not searching for the negative. i want to love dressage and the top riders and horses. it breaks my heart what is happening to the sport that i love and that I have basically given my live over to.

                          what makes me almost as sad is that views like mine are seen as aberrant, and that just becuase i dont find much beauty in it i am considered to be negative, etc.

                          not true. i am, above all things, honest. and i try to be diplomatic in my honesty altho sometimes i fail at that. but even so, i will not say i think something is beautiful when i don't feel it is. what good is there in that?

                          eta: sorry forgot to answer your question: no, i dont think this most recent ride is nicer that those in the Olympics. there were some nice rides in the Olympics. maybe not as flashy or extravagant or precise, but more beautiful. more harmonious, more..... artful.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well I thought that the top rides at the Olympics mostly sucked! Talk about pushed, held, faked....I was in despair that that was the direction dressage was going!
                            The only disturbing thing I find about the rides we've seen at the Euro's is...how do you top that?!?
                            * <-- RR Certified Gold Star {) <-- RR Golden Croissant Award
                            Training Tip of the Day: If you can’t beat your best competitor, buy his horse.
                            NO! What was the question?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think that the controversy and paradox of modern dressage is that the drive for mechanical perfection, especially in collection, has taken precedance over the simple flowing beauty a slowly and systematically trained horse under a skilled rider. There is a great deal of quality 'holding it together' but not enough showing off of the 'letting go'.
                              Lowly Farm Hand with Delusions of Barn Biddieom.
                              Witherun Farm
                              http://witherun-farm.blogspot.com/

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Please don't let us forget that the 'classical' description of the movements are pretty much what these horses (Totilas & Parzival) are giving us...thus the scores of 80's and 90's...
                                I've heard/read very little criticism of Blue Hors Matine...pretty much just oohs and aahs...and yet she could not sustain that level of performance.
                                At 9, the jury may be 'out' on Totilas but I believe that Parzival has (so far) withstood the test of time.

                                I think we shouldn't let our 'pre-conceived notions' get in the way of appreciating two spectacular athletes.
                                * <-- RR Certified Gold Star {) <-- RR Golden Croissant Award
                                Training Tip of the Day: If you can’t beat your best competitor, buy his horse.
                                NO! What was the question?

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Euro Champ scores

                                  My last post was not meant to be sarcastic. I just find it amazing that in one year we would have horses scoring such high marks and they were not horses that competed at the Olympics. Top horses are not made overnight. You would think that we would have seen them with scores in the upper 70's and 80's at least last year, in order for them to be scoring 90's this year. Sometimes I have felt that scores were held for unpopular riders/horses. This breaks that trend.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Trevelyan96 View Post
                                    With flame suit firmly in place, I will say that I found this to be hysterically funny and accurate in a sad kind of way
                                    Much truth in parody, they say.
                                    The person who created that website has far too much time on their hands, but at least they waste it in a quality way!
                                    "The Threat of Internet Ignorance: ... we are witnessing the rise of an age of equestrian disinformation, one where a trusting public can graze on nonsense packaged to look like fact."-LRG-AF

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Fixerupper View Post
                                      Please don't let us forget that the 'classical' description of the movements are pretty much what these horses (Totilas & Parzival) are giving us...thus the scores of 80's and 90's...
                                      I've heard/read very little criticism of Blue Hors Matine...pretty much just oohs and aahs...and yet she could not sustain that level of performance.
                                      At 9, the jury may be 'out' on Totilas but I believe that Parzival has (so far) withstood the test of time.

                                      I think we shouldn't let our 'pre-conceived notions' get in the way of appreciating two spectacular athletes.
                                      Totally agree - the horses like their work, give the movement and the riders are asking not demanding - you don't get that response by demanding, to watch in person is to see the beauty of horse and rider dancing together - it is truely magnificant. Bravo to the breeders of these horses.

                                      It is not mechanical movement but flowing perfection of the innate confirmation, plus heart and trainability of the horse that a breeder gamboled on when they bred stallion "A" with mare "B". Bravo to the breeders of these horses for the risks that they took because there is always a dachundt in a horse past. The Dutch breeding program of inspections and recording of evidance of traits of trainability and grading of conformation, with public statistical recording gives all the same gambol to breed and get a horse such as the ones ridden in the Euro Championships.

                                      The success of the training that went into these horses to keep and let the confirmation come through speaks for itself in how these horses performed with trust and freedom of movement for their riders. A beautiful marriage of breeding and wonderful riding that to my eye ( a former Ballanchine & Martha Graham trained dancer ) that resulted in movement from the horse that was not seemingly directed by the rider - true freedom of a horse dancing to my eye.
                                      SLG

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Hrsedq View Post
                                        A beautiful marriage of breeding and wonderful riding that to my eye <snip> that resulted in movement from the horse that was not seemingly directed by the rider - true freedom of a horse dancing to my eye.
                                        really? i have to disagree vehemently! most of the top horses looked absolutely controlled and crammed together. to me there is hardly any f"freedom of expression" by the horse. sure it can express itself by flinging its legs around, but that is different - at least to me - than a horse happily and calmly giving itself to its rider and working in such a manner that it appears that it does by itself what its rider directs.

                                        a totally different "feel" .

                                        totilas does not look "free" to me. he looks very constrained. Parzival is better, but still constrained in the neck with a harsh contact.

                                        i like to see the horse free to agree or disagree and decide to dance along. not held in place and forced to do as bidden. (see the elder klimke for examples and many other modern top riders)

                                        anyway..... different strokes for different folks i guess.

                                        i do wonder how totilas would look if ridden by say: klimke, or even S. Peters, or any other more "traditional" non "LDR" rider. my bet is that it would be beyond belief.

                                        Comment

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