• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Help!! My new mare likes to take a nose dive!!!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Help!! My new mare likes to take a nose dive!!!

    I just purchase a lovely 16.1 appendix mare that is very soft, but likes to take a nose dive every time I try to collect her. What do I do? Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

  • #2
    Sounds like she's not ready for collected work!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by cajunbelle View Post
      I just purchase a lovely 16.1 appendix mare that is very soft, but likes to take a nose dive every time I try to collect her. What do I do? Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
      What do you mean by "nosedive"? Is she falling on her forehand? Does she trip or stumble?

      Really I don't think I'm qualified to give detailed advice, it sounds to me like you need an instructor. Also am I correct in assuming that you are asking for collection by trying to set her head in a "frame"? In my experience, before you can even begin to ask for collection the horse needs to be working forward off her haunches.

      For "how to do this" details you're going to need someone a lot more experienced than I am. I'm still at the basic strengthening, balance, cadence, and going forward stage myself and I expect to be working on these skills for quite a while before my horse and I move on.
      "Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple” – Barry Switzer

      Comment


      • #4
        What did your mare do for a living before you bought her? If she did western pleasure or hunter under saddle at AQHA shows, she may have been taught to lower her head, every time the bit makes contact.

        Even if not, she may have learned to avoid short reins by grabbing the bit & diving to lengthen them.

        It would help you to know how she was trained in the past, just to see if it is a re-training issue or an avoidance tactic on her part - or something else entirely.

        Sometimes it helps to start at the beginning with a new-to-you horse so you can check to see if the two of you are on the same page on things. I'd probably lounge her in sidereins, keeping her forward & letting her teach herself to accept contact, if that's the issue. Even if she was taught to drop her nose that low for a prior career, she probably wasn't allowed to go forward, so teach her to go forward & she will probably not nosedive.

        She needs to be allowed to go forward to find the contact & get comfortable with that, before trying to collect her. (And if I'm guessing wrong on her prior career & she's already a 2nd level horse, I'd recommend a lesson with a good trainer who can watch what she's doing & give advice, based on what he or she has observed).

        These are guesses - it really helps to know why she's doing it, in order to find a way to stop her from doing it.
        Hidden Echo Farm, Carlisle, PA -- home of JC palomino sire Canadian Kid (1990 - 2013) & AQHA sire Lark's Favorite, son of Rugged Lark.

        Comment


        • #5
          If she had any spur stop training, she was taught to lower her head whenever you close your legs, as you would in the half-halt for collection. So the more leg or heel you apply, the more she thinks she needs to lower her head. It's not a response to bit contact--she's probably not used to much contact at all. If that's the case, it will be a challenge to get her moving forward and accepting the bit, but it can be done!
          We get a lot of quarter horses in for jumping training that have been spur trained, and eventualy they have a light bulb moment, and they are a lot happier for it! For now, I would just flutter your legs to get her moving and then add your hand when she'll let you. Be patient and she'll start to understand that contact is not a bad thing.

          Comment


          • #6
            Before you ever begin collection (second level) with a horse you must build the muscle so they can carry themselves. So start with the training scale. Does the horse move FORWARD nicely reaching up from behind without running and while staying relaxed? My guess is no - so start there.

            Once you have that then introduce shoulder fore, leg yield and other lateral work to start building up the muscle so the horse can carry itself - this means the horses butt has to reach underneath itself (think to the girth) while NOT running, then shoulders will start to rise up which is the start of collection.

            At first horse will not be capable of "holding" the "up" - it will go and come. Idea is to give long & low breaks enough for horse to rest their muscles then ask for the "up" again.
            Now in Kentucky

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Much thanks for everyones help, I am still very new at this. She needs a ton of work and much more from behind. I only have a picture of her standing still, but you will see what I mean. She is heavy in the front.

              http://inlinethumb27.webshots.com/43...600x600Q85.jpg
              Last edited by cajunbelle; Aug. 29, 2009, 02:51 PM. Reason: make photo bigger

              Comment


              • #8
                First, does your horse understand contact with the bit or was she used to a loose rein? If the latter, then you must slowly teach her about the bit. I use a gentle lifting rein, as if turning a door knob, and encouraging them to give (turn their head). This isn't a pulling contest, it's a request. Some time a little nudge with the inside leg is needed. You can also do this from the ground by gently lifting the bit while standing facing the horse.

                If the horse does understand contact but is fighting more, be sure to take up contact slowly and not too much. Use walk-halt and trot-walk transitions to teach about more contact. Keep even pressure on the reins and use your core to get the down transitions. You should be able to shorten the reins a little in the transitions. As the horse gains strength you can take up more contact.

                If it's more a matter of the horse fighting "normal" contact be sure to take lots of walk breaks with a loose rein and then slowly bring the horse back into the contact. This teaches them about contact but prevents them from feeling trapped.

                Some horses do learn to dive as a way to fight working. In this case, be sure your core is engaged so they bump against the reins which they learn not to do. I did have one smart one who would dive when I was at the top of a post (the most vulnerable position where you can't really brace well enough to hold them). I stopped that by tapping with the whip or spur. Also saying "no" loudly can help.

                PS: nice looking horse. Good luck.

                Comment

                Working...
                X