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Asking price vs. the offer you make

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  • Asking price vs. the offer you make

    Just wondering how the upper level dressage horse market is working now. Say you are interested in a horse listed at 40K. Assuming he is sound, etc., what is a fair offer (lower, but not insulting)? How about a 50K horse? Is there a percentage that most sellers expect to get, say 80% of the asking price? If you see a horse you like on the internet, but he is a bit out of your price range (say by 15-20%), do you tell seller up front and see if they still want to show you the horse?
    This buying of $$$ horses is all new to me. Please inform!
    Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it.

  • #2
    The horse is worth what he's worth. Just as in real estate, the asking price may be appropriate. There's no rule like "90% of asking".
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Do sellers price a horse like one might price a house, meaning "I'll start with price x and won't take less than price y"? That's what I am trying to figure out.
      Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Some do and some don't. I know that's not the answer you're looking for, but everyone is selling for different reasons. Some don't "need" to sell, and will stick to their price....others do need to sell and will make a deal. I figure it never hurts to ask - but it also never hurts to be up front and tell the seller that you probably shouldn't look at the horse if the price isn't negotiable. The seller will appreciate your honesty and the fact that if the price is NOT negotiable, you won't have wasted their time.

        Comment


        • #5
          Generally speaking I think an offer of 10% - 20% less than asking price is not UNREASONABLE in this economy. All the person can do is say "NO" which for some of my horses I would say, some I might accept the offer. Just depends!
          www.shawneeacres.net

          Comment


          • #6
            As a breeder I know what I want to get for a horse...what I HOPE to get for a horse....but alot depends.

            I have had my time wasted more than I want to think about because the buyer was SO far off in terms of what they can pay.

            It's a delicate subject, but as a buyer I've often asking -- "is there any wiggle room in the asking price? I really wasn't planning on going over $-----, but I really love your horse."

            Then the seller will either say "never mind," or you both start to negotiate.

            But please DON'T waste the owner's time if you can't afford the horse and you haven't asked if they are open to offers. Marketing horses takes a fair amount of time & effort, and it's a real hassle to waste it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Some prices are firm, some are not. I think as long as it not more than 20% less than an asking price, no matter how high or low the ticket, you will not offend the seller (or shouldn't!).

              I've made offers, I've ponied up the asking price, and I've walked away when an offer was not accepted. I've said, "this is what I feel ready to pay, I really like the horse, I will continue looking, call me if you decide you would like to negotiate the price in future."

              I had one person call me with the perfect horse for my needs, told me the seller's asking price. I said 'thanks, but blood from a stone'. Person said "what would you pay" and I said 'the budget is half that, and that is what is in the bank and all I will go.' Person called the seller, made the pitch, and he took it. When I bought my ex husband a horse, we were the first people to look at him the day after he came on the market and I plonked down his asking price without a hint of bargaining. A family with three kids was due to look at him the next day and he would not still be available. That was in '96 and now, at age 22, he is being my god daughter's first and most excellent caretaking packer--they are doing 4H and Pony Club and he's a little frumpy bay saint.

              So, also consider the specific horse. I *knew* that a 9 yr old sound QH with his papers, a show record, went English, Western, jumped, good on trails, AND quiet, cute and stout enough for a man but small enough for a child was NOT going to sit around the sale barn--he was fairly priced for what he was, and I had shopped enough to put down the deposit that day.
              Eileen
              http://themaresnest.us

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by EiRide View Post
                So, also consider the specific horse. I *knew* that a 9 yr old sound QH with his papers, a show record, went English, Western, jumped, good on trails, AND quiet, cute and stout enough for a man but small enough for a child was NOT going to sit around the sale barn
                You're hilarious -I have *exactly* this horse sitting around with a for sale sign tacked to his butt (except it has turned 10 in the interim) and he seems to have grown roots!

                However he is so adorable and so much fun to have around that it has been a pleasure being 'stuck' with him.

                The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                Comment


                • #9
                  As a seller, there are some horses like that, really good guys or gals, I don't mind keeping. They are easy to care for, nice to have around, make a good spare horse for visitors. They are negotiable but not terribly. Others may not fit in as well, need a stall more, don't thrive in company (food gets stolen or the reverse), aren't beginner horses anyone can ride, or are the 2nd gelding or a colt I can't put in the mare field. Sometimes the facilty needs one less. That's when you luck out negotiating. It may not be a reflection of the horse's worth or rideability, just circumstances on the farm.

                  I don't think sellers price with a 20% reduction in mind. But the cost of upkeep and training usually allows some discount. Bird in the hand concept. The very best though will not likely be negotiable. My best movers, good conformation, should be appreciating with training. The more average ones, still nice but not superstars, will be more negotiable. Some too young to really evaluate will sell for less to get cash flow. There is something to be said for not bearing the raising and training cost myself.

                  In this economy go for it. I wouldn't bid half though unless the horse is way overpriced and has been on the market a while. That is somewhat insulting in most caes but might get a seller out of a bind if they are desperate to sell.

                  If the seller is negotiable then go see the horse before making a firm bid. The horse might knock your socks off in person. You might bid higher then. Or it could be so-so and you wouldn't.
                  Remember videos don't give a true picture like seeing the horse in 3-D does. They flatten to 2-D and the horse can look better or worse than in person. It is just a clue. Interacting is priceless. You want to handle the prospect.
                  http://TouchstoneAcres.com
                  Touchstone Acres Lipizzans, Standing N. Samira VI (Gray), N. XXIX-18(Black), more in 2014

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Just because someone has priced a horse at 40K does not mean it is worth 40K......we are in the real estate business and you would not believe how many people think that their house is worth a bundle........and yet when they put it on the market at that price it can't be sold.....it is the same with horses.

                    I think you need to do your research and see what is actually selling (not what is listed) in the price range you can afford and compare what the horse can do in comparison to the others.

                    Dalemma

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In real estate, you can find comps. With cars, you have Blue Book.

                      With horses, who knows.

                      If you price too low, buyer assumes problems. If you price too high, buyer assumes they can't afford it.

                      I think buying directly from a breeder (moi) is the way to get the best price. If trainers are tacking on commissions, that's a different pricing structure.
                      www.oakhollowstable.blogspot.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                        You're hilarious -I have *exactly* this horse sitting around with a for sale sign tacked to his butt (except it has turned 10 in the interim) and he seems to have grown roots!

                        However he is so adorable and so much fun to have around that it has been a pleasure being 'stuck' with him.

                        Well, at that time in that market, he was not going to sit! Nowadays, well, it's a little different.
                        Eileen
                        http://themaresnest.us

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I wouldn't try to negotiate any more past 20% off.

                          Just ask early on, not once you've tried the horse and are ready to buy. We had someone vet a horse last week that was priced at $7,000. After the vet gives her the ok, she says to us "Well, I only have $5,000 to spend."

                          I wouldn't, however, e-mail and ask how negotiable it is. Our stock answer is "No", simply because we get so many tire kickers, people wanting trades, to pay 10k for a 20k horse, etc. But if someone comes out and really gets along with the horse, we might be a little more willing to negotiate. Not by half, like some people want, but a little.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I was told by a local trainer that she's seeing the price of trained dressage horses go up because sellers think buyers will be looking for bargains and lowballing. It explains why prices of 1st, 2nd and 3rd level horses have risen since spring of 2008. She thought they were up by as much as 10%.

                            That doesn't mean every horse is over priced but I'd say most are and would discuss price on any horse I was serious about before having it vetted. Also, check out the different sales sites. I've found several horses listed at very different prices and I have a friend who saved $10,000 on a horse the trainer marked up (the owner had the horse listed for much less and the buyer found the ad after seeing the horse).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Coppers mom View Post
                              I wouldn't try to negotiate any more past 20% off. Just ask early on, not once you've tried the horse and are ready to buy. We had someone vet a horse last week that was priced at $7,000. After the vet gives her the ok, she says to us "Well, I only have $5,000 to spend."

                              I wouldn't, however, e-mail and ask how negotiable it is. Our stock answer is "No", simply because we get so many tire kickers, people wanting trades, to pay 10k for a 20k horse, etc. But if someone comes out and really gets along with the horse, we might be a little more willing to negotiate. Not by half, like some people want, but a little.
                              Agree and disagree. Buyers should be courteous and not waste seller time if not serious. I prefer emails to phone calls.

                              I buy mostly young horses and am ready to walk away immediately. So much to choose from! I never ask if negotiable- I simply make a fair offer. "I would pay X. Please keep me in mind at any time if you decide that might work for you. As a seller myself I understand that you may need to hold out for more, but I also appreciate having a back up plan in the event I don't get what I am asking within a reasonable amount of time." I make most offers online after video/conformation photos- pending clean vet check and pending me liking the horse in person. I saved significant money by doing this on the last horse I bought...I got a call from the owner 9 months after my offer and drove 9 hours to pick her up the very next day before the owner changed her mind.

                              I am the only person I know who voluntarily paid a seller more than the asking price once. I was very impressed by the work that the woman had done and how kind/concerned she was with where her animals. I told her it was simply a tip for making such a nice horse. I am not rich and it wasn't a hand out- the horse was worth it and she deserved it. She cried.

                              That being said...we do not negotiate on the price of horses we sell. They are the quiet, child safe variety and are usually sold immediately.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Movin Artfully View Post
                                Agree and disagree. Buyers should be courteous and not waste seller time if not serious. I prefer emails to phone calls.

                                I buy mostly young horses and am ready to walk away immediately. So much to choose from! I never ask if negotiable- I simply make a fair offer. "I would pay X. Please keep me in mind at any time if you decide that might work for you. As a seller myself I understand that you may need to hold out for more, but I also appreciate having a back up plan in the event I don't get what I am asking within a reasonable amount of time." I make most offers online after video/conformation photos- pending clean vet check and pending me liking the horse in person. I saved significant money by doing this on the last horse I bought...I got a call from the owner 9 months after my offer and drove 9 hours to pick her up the very next day before the owner changed her mind.

                                I am the only person I know who voluntarily paid a seller more than the asking price once. I was very impressed by the work that the woman had done and how kind/concerned she was with where her animals. I told her it was simply a tip for making such a nice horse. I am not rich and it wasn't a hand out- the horse was worth it and she deserved it. She cried.

                                That being said...we do not negotiate on the price of horses we sell. They are the quiet, child safe variety and are usually sold immediately.
                                I should have been more specific about the e-mail thing. We get a ton of e-mails simply saying "Is his/her price negotiable?", sometimes not even in complete sentences or even words. That's what will get a stock answer of "No". But someone who makes it clear that they're serious will be more likely to get a little leeway.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  What is it with people trying to talk the price down before even enquiring into or seeing the horse? It is completely rude in my opinion.

                                  I think most sellers pretty much let you know how much negotiating room there is when they put a price tag on like $11,500 I would expect they would probably go as low as $10,000. I would guess that 10% to 20% is probably about right. Barterering is more of a people reading skill than anything though. If you don't have a problem offending people and don't care if you get the horse throw a low ball offer out there. You just never know!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Rival View Post
                                    What is it with people trying to talk the price down before even enquiring into or seeing the horse? It is completely rude in my opinion.
                                    I completely agree. It's like they're already saying that they don't think the horse is worth the price. Why bother?

                                    When I was selling my junior jumper, he was priced low, but accordingly. However, we put "All reasonable offers considered" because I was leaving for college in a couple months. This person e-mailed and said "Would you take $800 for him?" It was absolutely ridiculous, and when I told them that, they acted like they were trying to do me a favor because I sounded "Desperate".

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Coppers mom View Post
                                      I completely agree. It's like they're already saying that they don't think the horse is worth the price. Why bother?

                                      When I was selling my junior jumper, he was priced low, but accordingly. However, we put "All reasonable offers considered" because I was leaving for college in a couple months. This person e-mailed and said "Would you take $800 for him?" It was absolutely ridiculous, and when I told them that, they acted like they were trying to do me a favor because I sounded "Desperate".
                                      I agree and I disagree! When I inquire about a horse, if I feel that the price is higher than I want to pay, or that the horse is probably worth $X but not $Y, I will sometimes explain that I am intersted in the horse and ask "Is the price at all negotiable?". Usually that is accompanied by some questions etc. However, I do not want to waste your time or mine if price is firm and I dont' plan to pay it! However, I don't "lowball" unless I begin to hear things that make the horse less worth the asking price (which often turns me off the horse anyways). I do not like email though that simply state "Will you take less?". Sometimes I jsut say "No". Sometimes I say "well tell me more about what you are looking for and your price range". Sometimes they respond, sometimes jsut asking that stops the whole thing in its tracks. I am jsut one who doesn't want to waste time either buying or selling. I tell people UP FRONT about issues, not going to sugar coat things, and usually people are very appreciate of that. But it is in my best interest. first why should I waste an hour or two to show you something I know you won't buy? Why should I waste your time as well? And my reputation is on the line when I tell you one thing and horse is something else. Of coruse then there are those days when the BEST HORSE acts like a loon when someone comes to see them!!!! Happened recently we STILL don't know what caused it, hrose never acted that way before and never since, and was subsequently sold to someone who says he is the BEST and EASIEST horse ever (which he always was, EXCEPT for that one day!!!) How EMBARASSING is that though?!
                                      www.shawneeacres.net

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Dunno, guys.

                                        A very successful breeder I worked for in college consistently internet low balled show horses. This woman routinely sold babies she bred 2yo and under for upwards of 20k...but when buying- routinely offered $3500-5000 on horses priced between $12-15k with show records. Granted, few were in show condition at the time of purchase...but with 30 days riding/conditioning an ex-show vet is pretty easy to bring back.

                                        You would be shocked at how many people took her up on this. No health or soundness issues, not dinosaurs. She bought them for lesson horses. It was the nicest lesson horse selection I've ever seen in my life- and as one of the head instructors of her program at the time, I can tell you that they were the real deal.

                                        She found that if horses weren't moving and people needed to downsize, many sellers appreciated the fall back offer to a quality facility. This was 3-6 years ago. She pretty much shopped nationally and as long as something vetted and had a show record, we bought off of video.

                                        The amateur owner/seller is clearly at a disadvantage already, so I don't think they should be "shamed" into paying full asking price without inquiring.

                                        I agree that the "R U negocioble?!" emails are awful!

                                        Comment

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