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Code of Conduct Problems in the Dressage Team?

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  • Original Poster

    #21
    The article is about LESLIE MORSE

    Please! Let's not get names mixed up on this one. I, like Shinysocal was a witness to much of what Ken Braddick alludes to. He was very brave to write this article. And no, it was not badly written...just carefully said. This is a story that needs telling, unfortunately everyone is afraid of the consequences.

    Comment


    • #22
      Didn't read the article, but am curious about something; why does "the story need telling"? Are we so bored with actually watching the riders and the horses perform that we're to follow them around and wait for them to screw up outside the ring as well? Tell me showjumpers don't behave badly from time to time (anyone remember McLain Ward's debacle at Aachen a few years back?) and then I'll give a little more credence to whoever writes gossip-mongering, sensationalist twaddle about our teams.
      In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
      A life lived by example, done too soon.
      www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

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      • #23
        If these teams want the financial support of us peons, we have a right to know what shenanigans they are getting into on our nickle. I know I'm in no hurry to give a "gift" to help fund an FEI team if they're going to be acting like a bunch of hoodlums.

        Comment


        • #24
          Well, unless one has been in the barns at these competitions as a participant on the US team as chef, rider, farrier, groom or otherwise one really doesn't have first hand knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes. It is mostly VERY team oriented and supportive however, one bad apple can ruin the pie. Sometimes a story does need to be told so that people can be aware of what the bad apple is up to back there. This is not the first time this person has been naughty. It is however, the first time she has been called out for the behavior in a publication so directly. To have so much in her hands and to throw it away is a disgrace. Must be too much pressure for her to handle. Not everyone is cracked up to carry that much responsibility.
          What people saw in the warm up is only a piece of the story and if that is enough to horrify them then think of what it is like behind the scenes.. not a pretty sight.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by shinysocal View Post
            I don't want to be accused of slander. I will say that public drunkeness,
            Tee heee heee. I've seen many O International riders plow back the drink to be shnokered all night and be on their mounts at 8am riding quite well for the special. Perhaps she cannot handle her hangovers, human interaction and riding too!
            "The well being of a horse should never be compromised for the ego of a human" dlg 06

            http://qualitytack4sale.webs.com/

            Comment


            • #26
              Does someone who witnessed what occurred care to elaborate or is everyone going to just engage in polite innuendo, which in fact could lead some people to think things that are worse than whatever did in fact occur (I was not there so I would not know one way or the other).
              Roseknoll Sporthorses
              www.roseknoll.net

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              • #27
                Originally posted by YankeeLawyer View Post
                Does someone who witnessed what occurred care to elaborate or is everyone going to just engage in polite innuendo, which in fact could lead some people to think things that are worse than whatever did in fact occur (I was not there so I would not know one way or the other).
                Thank you! Exactly what I was thinking. I know practically zilch about all the politics of international competition. I know the names, how everyone does, etc, but not what really goes on. If someone actually saw it first-hand, let us know. we won't judge you- if you saw it first hand and only state the facts, you're not lying or spreading rumours.
                However, those who spread stuff and didn't see it first-hand, you could be dirtying the image of someone that other people look up to.
                Look, no one is perfect. If someone rides well, is a good sportsman and treats their horses well, the horse looks happy, they do well but maybe not in the top 3 100% of the time, hell I'd still look up to them, b/c hey, they're representing us at the top level!
                However, I have to say that I used to think a particular team member (as of yet not mentioned in this thread) seemed to be a nice person from what I see (being that in magazines, videos, etc) but recently found out from an eye witness that this person had a poor horse piaffing for an hour straight, horse was lathered but he was still beating it into doing so. GRRR-- now that is something I would not tolerate. The occasional selfish moment of celebrating a "decent" test that did not help your team members at all- who cares? Until I hear from an eye witness that this person was actually publicly drunk, abusing the horse in warm-up, and publicly rude and disrespectful towards coach and team members, I'm reserving judgement. And you also never know what goes on in someone's personal life that can cause them to "lose" it in public, so to speak.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Yes, I'm especially interested to know what went on in the warmup. Did she get rough with her horse?
                  *** 4 More Years ***
                  *** 4 More Years ***

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by YankeeLawyer View Post
                    Does someone who witnessed what occurred care to elaborate or is everyone going to just engage in polite innuendo, which in fact could lead some people to think things that are worse than whatever did in fact occur (I was not there so I would not know one way or the other).
                    I agree, I do not want to hear about one of our team members being smeared without any real info. Granted, the writer of the article is not unknown, and maybe it does need to be said, but geez. Give her a break before you know all the information. I can only imagine the stress level competing at that level. If she wanted to train with her very tried and true trainer, well.... sometimes personal loyalties are very important.

                    Regular posters, take a look at how many posts the OP and some of the supporters have. This is a total bone to pick with Leslie herself. How many other bb's are you all targeting, or is the COTH just the biggest one?

                    I do not know Leslie, but I want to hear the other side of the story first. I want to hear her teammates comments. If she was truely bad, they would probably say so in not so many words.

                    And, by the way, I did suffer through getting through that website to read the article.

                    And, Isn't Leslie the lowest man on the totem pole? Could she be a threat to other members of the team?

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      I was not at that particular competition......so I have no inside info this time.
                      I have known Leslie since we were 17. Tigers & spots.
                      "The well being of a horse should never be compromised for the ego of a human" dlg 06

                      http://qualitytack4sale.webs.com/

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                      • #31
                        i would also like to know what happened, the website is taking forever....

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by physical.energy View Post
                          I was not at that particular competition......so I have no inside info this time.
                          I have known Leslie since we were 17. Tigers & spots.
                          PE I totally respect what your saying. BUT, lets see what the people that came out of the woodwork want to say.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Wow, this is like the equine paparazzi!!!
                            FREE TACK/APPAREL ADS: BITS AND BARTER BOARD: http://bitsandbarter.proboards.com/i...ay&thread=5450

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by naters View Post
                              Wow, this is like the equine paparazzi!!!

                              Not paparazzi, it's the equine version of The National Enquirer.

                              If there's abuse to a horse in the warm up, let the FEI get on her about it and correct the situation. (Heck, in the 70s there were plenty of eventing accounts that would make your hair stand up, but they were taking care of by the officials.)

                              Getting drunk and disorderly seems to be par for the course for many an international judge. So what's wrong with the rider doing it? I'm kidding, of course. If they were drunk and disorderly, have them hauled up before the USEF or any other international governing body for the conduct of a national team's members. They might want to get after Bodie Miller (sp?) too.
                              "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Theo- this is about LESLIE MORSE- not LISA WILCOX.


                                Lisa is great...Leslie- well did not behave so well.....




                                (
                                Originally posted by Horsedances View Post
                                I have seen Lisa Wilcox ride at many occassions, some of her rides are also on my website. During (for example) the Week of the Stallions at Zwolle Lisa was almost their every year. Inside and outside the ring I never noticed that she had a nasty behaviour. I have met much worser people in the 20 years I travelled with the dressage-circus. I have seen fysical fights between riders and judges, riders and trainers etc...
                                Lisa was never part of this.

                                But maybe she is changed the last few years.

                                I also want to stipulate that the dressage-sport is not a team-sport and will never become a teamsport. Offcourse you go and watch your team-mates ride, but..... you always hope she or he does worse than you do. It's not nice to be the scratch result and having to go home after just one ride !


                                Theo
                                "the man mite be the head but the woman is the neck and the neck can turn the head any way she wants..." -smart greek woman

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  I guess I just wanted to add one more thing. While there is a team aspect in this, typically it is all about the individual, and even in the international competitions the team scores are achieved by individual rides and then those riders with the higher scores go on for individual awards/accolades. So the mixing of team and individual in this might not be worth it anymore. Maybe the sport should change at the international level to only and always be about individual rides. Forget the team events/scores.
                                  "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by ESG View Post
                                    Didn't read the article, but am curious about something; why does "the story need telling"? Are we so bored with actually watching the riders and the horses perform that we're to follow them around and wait for them to screw up outside the ring as well? Tell me showjumpers don't behave badly from time to time (anyone remember McLain Ward's debacle at Aachen a few years back?) and then I'll give a little more credence to whoever writes gossip-mongering, sensationalist twaddle about our teams.
                                    I think we are witnessing the first serious 'course correction' and since it's published- it will be known to all.
                                    Conduct like this will no longer be tolerated, and I think it is a very good message to send to all lucky ones that get invited to join the team and use our dollars to compete and become famous.
                                    1. respect your team
                                    2. respect your team coach
                                    3. don't abuse your horse in the warmup
                                    4. know how to conduct yourself safely in social situations with alcohol.
                                    "the man mite be the head but the woman is the neck and the neck can turn the head any way she wants..." -smart greek woman

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by mjhco View Post
                                      (This has to be one of the most annoying ways to read an online magazine I have ever seen.)
                                      Amen to that, except perhaps that the word annoying is probably unduly charitable and restrained.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        I found the article to be frustrating in that as others have posted, it was pretty much impossible to figure out what the unprofessional conduct was.

                                        I don't judge the rightness of an argument by the number of adherents to each side, so if there was discord, without specifics who knows who might be in the right or in the wrong, or even whether the issues were of any real consequence. I've been in organizations where 'peace at any price' was the order of the day and watched as the organization began to melt down because of it, when nobody with sufficient authority could muster the leadership needed to sort it out. It takes guts to insist that fundamental issues not be papered over, and sometimes to get resolution its necessary to raise a little cain. On the other hand, PsITA can be vocal and disruptive with no valid reason whatever.

                                        And there is public drunkenness and public drunkenness. This can be in the eye of the beholder, especially if some underlying dispute carries over through the social hour and voices disinhibited by alcohol are raised. Public displays of emotion always make observers uneasy.

                                        Excessive harshness with a horse is always totally unacceptable behavior at any level and in any venue. Whenever and wherever I've seen it -- fortunately not often -- nobody not directly related to the horse and rider ever seems to say or do a thing; they just get nervous and try to look the other way only to gossip about it among themselves afterward in whispers.

                                        I have never once seen somebody in public call the offender out on the spot and ask them just what the hell they think they're doing, or what they expect to accomplish, which is damned odd behavior considering how strongly most horse people hold and voice their opinions on other topics much less fundamental than abuse.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by physical.energy View Post
                                          Tee heee heee. I've seen many O International riders plow back the drink to be shnokered all night and be on their mounts at 8am riding quite well for the special. Perhaps she cannot handle her hangovers, human interaction and riding too!
                                          I used to rub horses for a rider who couldn't win unless she was half snokered!

                                          As far as the reading the article, once I figured out how to get the pages to stay put, it wasn't so bad, but I thought I was reading a "Homes and Land" booklet for a while there. I guess that's why it's free on the web. It's a real estate guide with a few articles thrown in.
                                          Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!

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