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Would he sell as a straight dressage horse??

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  • Would he sell as a straight dressage horse??

    So I am an eventer for my sport of choice but have done pure dressage in the past on one of my previous horses through 4th level. I have a fabulous 7 year old now that is just not working out as an event horse and was wondering what dressage people thought of him. He is about 16.2hh, big bodied (I'm 6', long-legged and look good on him), ISH x Hanoverian, big mover with an amazing walk and canter, and the trot work gets more suspension everyday as he gets stronger. He already has confirmed leg-yields, shoulder in, started haunches in, started half pass, and has flying changes from jumping and it doing them now as dressage changes as well.

    Here's the catch, he can be silly when at home and has a bit of a buck and spin (nothing naughty or dangerous but he is playful), he is very businesslike though and I would actually consider him quiet, but it is in there. He is sound but does have a old set bow (hence no more eventing), that was completely re-habbed and looks completely normal (no banana shape, no swelling).

    I would put him at confirmed 2nd level now with protential to be a really nice ammy or young rider horse through PSG. I by no means think this is a GP horse, and would not market as such. So what are your thoughts???? Is this sellable to a dressage person even with his extra enthusiasm? Any issues with the old bow??? Also any idea what price range these are going for???? This is not a sales ad as he won't be for sale for a while, just trying to see what his options are.

  • #2
    Since he is just starting haunches in then he is not a CONFIRMED 2nd level horse. (i think of confirmed as having shown at that level at a recognized dressage show with scores in the mid 60's).

    The old bow wouldn't bother me. The playfullness I think is an asset. I like personality.

    as far as real dressage marketability and price range it would totally depend on how good his gaits are. I'd need a video.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Sorry I put him at confirmed 2nd as I will get him out to some shows first before I sell him (hence why is is not for sale yet), and he will be doing 2nd, ready for 3rd when I start marketing, he has just started haunches in right now. I know that show records speak volumes, and to get money they need something under their belt. He has already been out at 1st with scores in high 60's. Glad to hear his playfulness is not to much of a concern, or the tendon. I will have to get a better video of movement sometime, as the video I have does not show the trot he has now. It took a while for him to get the strength in his back to really get the suspension that he is at this point still developing.

      Comment


      • #4
        the price ranges can be crazy.. I'd check out dressage daily's marketplace and see what comperable horses are offered at.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Thanks, I will take a look there.

          Comment


          • #6
            also, if he has clean straight flying changes that would be a real selling point

            Comment


            • #7
              honestly - if he isnt a registered WB then the price will decrease dramatically.

              also the old bow - you will also lose a good percentage of potential buyers because of that. Dressage people, in general, like clean legs.

              as for the spin.scoot - again you will lose a percentage of buyers because of that - he is not an "ammie horse" .

              so you are left with a horse that is going to appeal to a very narrow percentage of riders...... so you will have to market accordingly.

              Of course, you may put an ad out and sell him to the first person that shows up too!

              but my guess would be less than 10k....

              so a search on WB crosses to get an idea.....

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mjrtango93 View Post

                Here's the catch, he can be silly when at home and has a bit of a buck and spin (nothing naughty or dangerous but he is playful), he is very businesslike though and I would actually consider him quiet, but it is in there. He is sound but does have a old set bow (hence no more eventing), that was completely re-habbed and looks completely normal (no banana shape, no swelling).

                I would put him at confirmed 2nd level now with protential to be a really nice ammy or young rider horse through PSG.
                I don't think there is a big market for a 2nd level ammie horse that has a buck and spin in him. Dressage ammies usually want easy, VERY easy. And QUIET.
                Roseknoll Sporthorses
                www.roseknoll.net

                Comment


                • #9
                  yeah, horses like this genearlly are sold as "project horses" and priced accordingly - no matter how talented (if they aren't registered WB) .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    mbm, some of us have actually bought nice horses that are not registered...for whatever reason. I think the buck/spin is more of an issue than being registered. I just saw a lovely upper level schoolmaster that has no registration papers. I don't care if a gelding does not have papers. I have also passed on buying some registered Warmbloods
                    Humans don’t mind duress, in fact they thrive on it. What they mind is not feeling necessary. –Sebastian Junger

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      no no.... what i meant was - the non registration will be reflected in the price - did not mean to say that just because a horse is not registered they are no good....

                      as an example: i see many excellent, well trained TBs out there. yet they sell for minuscule amounts as compared to the exact same training in a WB. that is what i meant.

                      of course this is good for many of us who cant afford the top price of WBs.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think his price will depend a LOT on what his scores look like at 2nd level. JMO

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Good scores at second level will negate his lack of papers - IF the OP has a breeding cert to prove who he is. If his breeding is heresay, with no proper documentation to back it up, then he is a grade horse and his price will be slightly less than a papered horse will all other issues comparable.

                          The bow is a problem. He will need to have stayed sound on it with NO reoccurences of any sort of issue for a significant period of time. If he has a crooked leg and that leg is bowed, or a funky foot on the bowed leg, expect to have more of a problem selling him. Be prepared to hand over all old ultrasound pictures and reports and if you don't have them, get them now as a baseline for comparison later. It will go a LONG WAY with a prepurchase vet/buyer if you have that.

                          The buck/spin? Get rid of it. Send him to a cowboy, do whatever it takes. But get rid of it. Be sure to mention to any prospective buyer that when he was young, that was his game of choice.
                          "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                          ---
                          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mjrtango93 View Post
                            So I am an eventer for my sport of choice but have done pure dressage in the past on one of my previous horses through 4th level. I have a fabulous 7 year old now that is just not working out as an event horse and was wondering what dressage people thought of him. He is about 16.2hh, big bodied (I'm 6', long-legged and look good on him), ISH x Hanoverian, big mover with an amazing walk and canter, and the trot work gets more suspension everyday as he gets stronger. He already has confirmed leg-yields, shoulder in, started haunches in, started half pass, and has flying changes from jumping and it doing them now as dressage changes as well.

                            Here's the catch, he can be silly when at home and has a bit of a buck and spin (nothing naughty or dangerous but he is playful), he is very businesslike though and I would actually consider him quiet, but it is in there. He is sound but does have a old set bow (hence no more eventing), that was completely re-habbed and looks completely normal (no banana shape, no swelling).

                            I would put him at confirmed 2nd level now with protential to be a really nice ammy or young rider horse through PSG. I by no means think this is a GP horse, and would not market as such. So what are your thoughts???? Is this sellable to a dressage person even with his extra enthusiasm? Any issues with the old bow??? Also any idea what price range these are going for???? This is not a sales ad as he won't be for sale for a while, just trying to see what his options are.

                            he is not a novice horse he needs an exprienced rider to bring him on

                            so therefore not for and mustnt be for sale as a 1st horse to a novice rider
                            as hes naughty and unless they have the knowledge to correct his nappyness it wouldnt work
                            he must be sold as not a novice ride he also has wear and tear on him ie the bow so wouldnt be good for showing nor dressage as if he cant jump no more then how do you expect him to work on the flat with a stressed injury --

                            now as he naps this could be related to the pain in his leg as working him to much to soon
                            and injury still apparant so horse is telling you hes off and hurts still
                            an inkured tendon takes months to heal up can be up to 2 yrs sound like you outing the horse as hes not useful to you no more and looking for dressage owner but the horse wont do that as dressage also works the legs mussles ligaments and tendons

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by goeslikestink View Post
                              he is not a novice horse he needs an exprienced rider to bring him on

                              so therefore not for and mustnt be for sale as a 1st horse to a novice rider
                              as hes naughty and unless they have the knowledge to correc his nappyness it wouldnt work
                              he must be sold as not a novice ride
                              No worries there, he is not the type to ever be a novice ride, well maybe when he is 30 or so. Apparently eventers and dressage have a different view and expectation out of ammy horses though, which is good to know. As I had said there is nothing naughty about him, if he is hyper and the wind is blowing, or the dogs run up barking he'll throw in a buck, or he'll spin around if the drapes blow in the wind. He is also kept alot fitter now as an eventer then he ever would be as a dressage horse so a lot of that may go away with not being as "on the muscle".

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                [QUOTE=EqTrainer;4297294]The bow is a problem. He will need to have stayed sound on it with NO reoccurences of any sort of issue for a significant period of time. If he has a crooked leg and that leg is bowed, or a funky foot on the bowed leg, expect to have more of a problem selling him. Be prepared to hand over all old ultrasound pictures and reports and if you don't have them, get them now as a baseline for comparison later. It will go a LONG WAY with a prepurchase vet/buyer if you have that.[QUOTE]

                                I have all scans and am more then willing to have my vet talk to whomever wants to hear about it. The injury was not caused by any leg confirmation issues (he's completely straight legged, and pretty textbook perfect when it comes to that), and he has big, huge, amazing feet. Slightly low in the heal, but they can't all be perfect.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  in dressage a lot of the "ammies" out there are middle aged re-riders or new riders and when a horse is called " Ammy" horse they mean quiet and no spook, no buck and easy.

                                  Just be honest and you will be okay. He actually sounds like a neat horse there are some of us that like horses with a bit of spunk

                                  and the comments i made above are just based on researching the market over he last couple years....

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by mjrtango93 View Post
                                    Apparently eventers and dressage have a different view and expectation out of ammy horses though, which is good to know. .
                                    Yes, at least, that has been my observation based on experience with both. I have seen perfectly competent ammie dressage riders nearly reduced to tears when trying a horse that was "too forward" for them, and by "too forward," I mean the horse did something barely approaching a working trot when asked to trot. Of course not all ammies are like that, but generally they want quiet and safe, no naughtiness.

                                    Regarding value, just to give you an idea, I know of a gorgeous mare with very desirable and hard to obtain bloodlines that has an excellent FEI record (consistent wins and impressive scores at the most competitive shows through I-1) but is now only able to compete through second level to stay sound. Asking price is 15K, and that is a mare whose bloodlines alone could fetch that as a top broodie. And she is easy to ride.
                                    Roseknoll Sporthorses
                                    www.roseknoll.net

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I think he would sell for around 10k around here, more if he shows really well at 2nd level or if he shows a little at 3rd that's better, especially if he gets a chance to get shown in a test that requires changes be done. Changes are worth at least 3,000 dollars if they are easy to get the horse to do on both sides, meaning if anyone can get up on him and get two changes without a lot of finagling and coaching and tears, it's worth at least 3k.

                                      I don't think he would qualify for any All-Breed awards, unless there are award programs for part IS or part Hanoverian. That will put some buyers off. The old bow will scare some buyers off. The buck-spin would scare a LOT of riders off. Take it out of him. Get him less fit, punish him when he does it, I don't know what else you can do, except that a lot of horses do it less if they are more through and more on the bit and looser in the neck and back, that you can work on through training for more suppleness. It kind of depends on how bad he is about it and how easily he does it, eventers tend to be a lot less concerned about a little buck and a spook than an ammy dressage rider. I guarantee you, he will do it a lot more with a weaker, more timid rider who keeps him less worked down, which is most amateur riders.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by mjrtango93 View Post
                                        No worries there, he is not the type to ever be a novice ride, well maybe when he is 30 or so. Apparently eventers and dressage have a different view and expectation out of ammy horses though, which is good to know. As I had said there is nothing naughty about him, if he is hyper and the wind is blowing, or the dogs run up barking he'll throw in a buck, or he'll spin around if the drapes blow in the wind. He is also kept alot fitter now as an eventer then he ever would be as a dressage horse so a lot of that may go away with not being as "on the muscle".
                                        A certain amount of bravery -- sometimes beyond a reasonable level -- goes with an eventing mindset That is for both rider and horse BTW!

                                        Certainly my experience with my mare was that when I took her back from the Fearless Teen who was eventing her, she was super-fit and more than a little crazy. Over time, taken out of the eventing world and put into pure dressage training, she gained weight and her muscle bulk shifted, and in fact her entire shape changed. And she calmed down a *lot*. There are horses that just get high as a kite when jumped a lot.

                                        That said, she can still be hot, and she still has a buck and a spook in her. If she's really, really upset she will pick up her front feet in a half-rear -- but will not go all the way up unless pressured beyond her ability to cope. I am 45 and a re-rider, and not the bravest person in the world, but I've gotten used to her -- and one of the good things is that because I am not the bravest, I'll get us out of a bad situation rather than try to "ride through" when she's threatening to rear, so she's never gone all the way up with me. I have no shattered pride if I have to back off a bit to let her get her brains back into her head.

                                        That said, I *was* afraid to ride her when she was fresh off the eventing, and no, the average adult ammy would not put up with this sort of behavior, so her value as an ammy ride (already lowered by her being small, a mare, and an off-breed) is reduced. She would be worth more as an eventer, but I don't intend to sell her, ever.

                                        And, *that* said, I've seen far worse behavior from some of the "ammy friendly" WBs of my acquaintance. Worse as in unpredictable; with my mare I usually have ample warning when she's getting wound up. It's all about matching horses to riders.

                                        So... I think this horse may, with showing and more training, be more valuable than people think. *If* you could find a more typical adult ammy rider to take him out so he gets seen being ridden by someone a potential buyer sees as "like them", that may help.
                                        Last edited by quietann; Aug. 11, 2009, 12:07 AM.
                                        You have to have experiences to gain experience.

                                        1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

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