• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

In all my years I've never seen this! What do you think?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • In all my years I've never seen this! What do you think?

    At a USEF/USDF show this past weekend I saw something I've never seen before....tell me what you think:

    Rider A rides their test and leaves the ring.
    Rider B rides their test and leaves the ring.
    Rider C (with test caller) enters the ring area and after a minute are told by the judge to leave the area because she is calling Rider A back in to ride several movements -- "it won't take too long".

    So, Rider C leaves (with caller), Rider A goes into the arena and rides 4 movements. Judge is overheard to say, "thanks. I wasn't sure if I saw you ride those movements."

    My initial thoughts were completely dumbfounded. I have seen a judge ask a rider to redo a movement if the rider has not left the ring, but I've never seen a judge call someone back into the arena after another ride has gone!

    While auditing/scribing for the L program, it was stated, if you miss a movement, err on the side of the competitor and give a 6 for the movement.

    When this situation was discussed with the TD, she graciously said she'd investigate what had occured but the Judge had sole descretion in the ring. When the TD was told another ride had taken place between the original ride and the partial redo, she said she'd get back to us. There really wasn't a complaint other than "what the heck is going on?!"

    The explanation was the scribe had missed 4 movements so the judge called the rider back into the ring to repeat the movements rather than give the competitor the benefit of the doubt and award a 6 for each missed movement.

    What wasn't understood is why the judge/scribe didn't notice the missing marks before the rider left the arena? It was unusual to say the least.

  • #2
    was this a schooling show?
    i have been scribing for a number of years and have never seen nor heard of anything like that.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by eggbutt View Post
      At a USEF/USDF show this past weekend I saw something I've never seen before....
      It wasn't a schooling show.

      I've never seen or heard of anything like this either and I agree...it DOES seem really bizarre.
      "I was not expecting the park rangers to lead the resistance, none of the dystopian novels I read prepared me for this but cool."

      Comment


      • #4
        thats MESSED up and....really unfair to rider C

        Comment


        • #5
          No, NEVER seen such a thing happen! EVEN in schooling shows The rules actually say, if the Jury (judge) has not noted an error, then the competitor gets the benefit of the doubt - DR122. I would interpret that (and the L Faculty also discuss it) as a missed movement = judge gives a score. Some faculty say a score of 6, some say a 7. I think it is appropriate to look at what score occurred before and after the missed movement, and score accordingly.

          The closest I have EVER seen to this is with a now-retired judge who snoozed off during a few rides. She would wake up, and ring the riders off course and make them start back a few movements, ugh! But I think it is worse to have someone come BACK into the ring after they are done - what if they had already untacked?
          www.MysticOakRanch.com Friesian/Warmblood Crosses, the Ultimate Sporthorse
          Director, WTF Registry

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, there was some creative officiating at that show. Nothing off the rules, but some things that had to be looked up on short notice and such--training level rider gets soundly bucked off, horse goes on a major gallop but, amazingly, does not leave the dressage arena; is rider allowed to get on and "contine" the ride? They gave her the benefit of the doubt as no one was sure. That brave girl got right back on, put that horse to *work* and did a stupendous job with it. Judge commented that even she learned something new this weekend! (yes, it did conform to the rules).

            Lucky thing the rider in the OP hadn't dismounted, removed her hat and coat and such. And how unfair to the horse?

            Don't get me wrong, I adore the people who work this show and appreciate no end the great job they do. It's always a fun, relatively low-pressure show at a nice facility. But it always seems there's something wierd that happens. Maybe that's the case with all relatively large shows?
            "One person's cowboy is another person's blooming idiot" -- katarine

            Spay and neuter. Please.

            Comment


            • #7
              that happened to me once!

              Rated show, respected judge. I was doing my test and suddenly the judge flagged me over. She asked if I had done such and such movements (including a trot across the diagonal). Yes, I replied, " I just did them". She said she didn't see them and asked me to do 3 movements over, which I did. I was not happy and felt I did better the first time.
              Weird, huh?
              Jill
              www.eurofoal.homestead.com
              European bloodlines made in America

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by eurofoal View Post
                Rated show, respected judge. I was doing my test and suddenly the judge flagged me over. She asked if I had done such and such movements (including a trot across the diagonal). Yes, I replied, " I just did them". She said she didn't see them and asked me to do 3 movements over, which I did. I was not happy and felt I did better the first time.
                Weird, huh?

                No, this to me is NOT unusual......you were still in the ring, right? This rider had LEFT the ring, another ride had gone and the original rider was called back in.

                And Monstrpony, the horse has to leave the arena before the rider is eliminated. That particularly situation should have been counted as an error and nothing more since the horse couldn't figure out how to jump the little dressage rail! This situation seems to happen at Southern Pines on the polo fields frequently. The riders scramble to get up and hold on to their horse and not let them leave the ring so they can finish the ride!

                Comment


                • #9
                  That is just weird.

                  In a show recently, I detected an error in my test before the judge did. Training 2 has a "V" free walk with no change of rein; I was on my way to a change of rein when I realized that I'd be trotting a circle to the right for the second time if I kept going. So I turned around to head back to do it right, and the judge shouted out, "Hey, where are you going?" and I replied, "This free walk isn't a change of rein!" and after a moment (probably to look at the test sheet) she said, "OK, you're right." I still got 2 points taken off, of course, but sort of feel like there should be less of a penalty if the rider catches something before the judge.
                  You have to have experiences to gain experience.

                  1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Young Horse tests maybe?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      . . . . and this is why we have the USEF Judge's Evaluation Form:
                      http://www.usef.org/documents/compet...Evaluation.pdf
                      Amateur rider, professional braider.
                      ----
                      Save a life, adopt a pet.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by eggbutt View Post
                        And Monstrpony, the horse has to leave the arena before the rider is eliminated. That particularly situation should have been counted as an error and nothing more since the horse couldn't figure out how to jump the little dressage rail! This situation seems to happen at Southern Pines on the polo fields frequently. The riders scramble to get up and hold on to their horse and not let them leave the ring so they can finish the ride!
                        Yeah, this one was wierd because the horse was actually loose from the rider and made three or four vigorous, bucking laps of the ring. All of those watching near the judge had to think to convince ourselves that she never left the ring, but she did not--she seemed to think about it, but it was pretty clear Why She Was A Dressage Horse (and the end of the ring at A was open the whole time, but it's not a very inviting spot in that particular arena). The TD said the judge could do whatever she wanted in terms of points for errors or whatever (she counted it as one error).
                        "One person's cowboy is another person's blooming idiot" -- katarine

                        Spay and neuter. Please.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So what are you supposed to do if your horse bucks you off during a test?

                          Just asking, of course

                          All of these stories are slightly terrifying. Including yours, Quietann... uggghhhh, I'd get lost!

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Ambrey View Post
                            So what are you supposed to do if your horse bucks you off during a test?

                            Just asking, of course

                            All of these stories are slightly terrifying. Including yours, Quietann... uggghhhh, I'd get lost!
                            Grab your horse quickly before it leaves the ring. The rules state the horse must leave the ring to be eliminated. If you are able to get your horse and get back on while still within the confines of the dressage arena without assistance, you are allowed to continue your test at the movement you came off and are usually given an error.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A fall of rider is in the rule book, so I am suprised no one knew how the rider was to be penalized. A rider may continue, they penalized in the offending movement and in the collective marks. Try to remember to hold onto your horses reins when you fall


                              At devonwood (a larger sized show in OR)a rider fell off during a bolt in the freestyle. The horse went back the barns but was caught. She finished her ride and won the the large class (15-20 rides) . It was other than the bolt a perfect ride! I think this was a year or two ago. I think the judges decided the spook was caused by something unusual and something none of the other riders had to condend with.

                              From USEF Dressage rulebook: (page 28)
                              f. In the case of a fall of horse and/or rider the competitor will not be eliminated. He will
                              be penalized by the effect of the fall on the execution of the movement being performed
                              and also in the Collective Marks.
                              Last edited by flyracing; Aug. 3, 2009, 01:12 PM. Reason: looked up rule in rulebook

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by eggbutt View Post
                                Grab your horse quickly before it leaves the ring. The rules state the horse must leave the ring to be eliminated. If you are able to get your horse and get back on while still within the confines of the dressage arena without assistance, you are allowed to continue your test at the movement you came off and are usually given an error.
                                I guess I'd better practice ground mounting.
                                2012 goal: learn to ride like a Barn Rat

                                A helmet saved my life.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by TheHorseProblem View Post
                                  I guess I'd better practice ground mounting.
                                  LOL, I was thinking the same thing. Or just hope my horse runs for the barn!

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Whew...I'm glad Flyracing edited her post.....it is elimination if the horse leaves the arena, so the case she mentioned of an MFS that was allowed to finish the test after the horse went back to the barn is a gross rule violation. Where was that????

                                    From USEF.org - Dressage rules:

                                    f. In the case of a fall of horse and/or rider the competitor will not be eliminated. He will be penalized by the effect of the fall on the execution of the movement being performed and also in the Collective Marks.
                                    g. If the horse leaves the arena with or without the rider (all four feet outside the fence or line marking the arena perimeter) between the time of entry and the time of exit at A, the competitor is eliminated.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Interesting that...in Canada a fall by horse or rider means automatic elimination.
                                      * <-- RR Certified Gold Star {) <-- RR Golden Croissant Award
                                      Training Tip of the Day: If you can’t beat your best competitor, buy his horse.
                                      NO! What was the question?

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Ok, what would happen in this scenario...years ago I was at our Championships and overhead some frantic hushed whispering...seems a CHAMPIONSHIP test had somehow gotten LOST between the judge's box and the scorers...now I don't know if they eventually FOUND the missing test, since I was not working that particular area, and never heard the outcome.

                                        But what WOULD happen in that case? Would the rider have to re-ride the test??? Is there even a rule addressing this scenario?
                                        Donerail Farm
                                        www.donerailfarm.com
                                        http://donerailfarm.wordpress.com/

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X