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Ravel and Totilas; so different and so much to like

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  • Ravel and Totilas; so different and so much to like

    Ravel
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUM5a...eature=related

    Totilas
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEMHt1dUzQg

    Such amazing horses, both.

    I like Steffen's music better (OK maybe the Transformers DVD has been overplayed at my house )

    It will be interesting to see them compete against each other.
    I can't wait.
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

  • #2
    Originally posted by nhwr View Post
    Ravel
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUM5a...eature=related

    Totilas
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEMHt1dUzQg

    Such amazing horses, both.

    I like Steffen's music better (OK maybe the Transformers DVD has been overplayed at my house )

    It will be interesting to see them compete against each other.
    I can't wait.
    I don't hope you are serious. Ravel is a very good horse, but Totilias is from another planet.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Going4Gold View Post
      I don't hope you are serious. Ravel is a very good horse, but Totilias is from another planet.
      Theo, is that you?

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        I agree that Totilas is amazing. There is a fluidity to Ravel's movement that I admire. And I have seen Ravel go a couple times in person, that matters. I haven't had the privilege with Totilas yet.

        Since I think it is unlikely that I will ever be called on professionally to decide which one is better in competition, I don't feel the need to choose between them.

        They are both very nice
        See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yay! A thread where we can like both! They are VERY different horses. Ravel is farther along in a some ways (he is older and a bit more experienced), and has a relaxation about him that is refreshing to see in top horse. Ravel is so fluid and silky, while Totilas is just electric.

          I think it's okay for people to prefer one to the other. They are almost opposite in type, so that's to be expected. You can prefer one and still respect and even like both as top top horses. I love Ravel, but if I could have any dressage horse right now, it'd probably be Totilas. He's a freak, and I LOVE it, haha.

          Comment


          • #6
            Can I ask a question? I don't ride upper level dressage and did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I mean this question with sincerity and hope to further my education.

            One thing I observe is the difference in elevation of the forelimbs between the two horses. Even to the point of one horse's forelimbs going above parallel with the ground. Is this desired? What is the judge looking for with regards to elevation of any of the limbs (say in Piaffe or Passage or even extended trot)? In other words, what is the ultimate goal, beyond rhythm and correct movement?

            It is extravagant, certainly...
            DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
              Can I ask a question? I don't ride upper level dressage and did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I mean this question with sincerity and hope to further my education.

              One thing I observe is the difference in elevation of the forelimbs between the two horses. Even to the point of one horse's forelimbs going above parallel with the ground. Is this desired? What is the judge looking for with regards to elevation of any of the limbs (say in Piaffe or Passage or even extended trot)? In other words, what is the ultimate goal, beyond rhythm and correct movement?

              It is extravagant, certainly...
              It isn't about the forelegs. Dressage is really all about changing the balance of the horse off the forehand toward the haunches. When that happens, the haunches lower toward the ground and the forehand elevates. The elevation of the forehand frees the shoulder (takes the weight off) and the horse can lift his forelegs higher.

              You can see the kind of elevation that Totilas has in other horses that are doing it completely wrong. In other words, the weight is not shifted to the hindquarters, the back is hollowed and the horse is above the bit.

              So really what you have to look at is the hind end. If that is correct, then the forelegs can be as expressive as can be.
              "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Going4Gold View Post
                I don't hope you are serious. Ravel is a very good horse, but Totilias is from another planet.
                A planet where they don't cross their hind legs in the half pass? Or maybe where the same side legs don't make a "V" in the walk?
                "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by nhwr View Post
                  Since I think it is unlikely that I will ever be called on professionally to decide which one is better in competition, I don't feel the need to choose between them.
                  Brilliant!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Actually, it is interesting to watch them back to back. I'll admit to having chills when I watch Totilas go. There is an electricity that is very exciting, especially when coupled with the fact that I don't see him being unhappy out there (at least at Hickstead). He is very, very fun to watch. And for what its worth, I like his music much better than Ravel's. I'm a big fan of seamless music, and really dislike the tendency of many Americans to use multiple pieces of music - Safety Dance, Rolling Stones and Coldplay is a little too much for me.

                    However, when I watch Ravel go, I want to ride him. He looks like fun, whereas Totilas looks intimidating to me. I also will say, I much prefer Ravel's halfpass and medium gaits to Totilas, and he has a nicer walk.

                    Both horses are great in their own ways, and it'll be interesting to see what happens when they go head to head.
                    Here Be Dragons: My blog about venturing beyond the lower levels as a dressage amateur.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think Ravel is unbeatable in the half-pass right now, but the pirouettes seem to cause a little problem. Totilas has incredible pirouettes but seems a little lacking in the half pass. They are both wonder horses to my eye, just in different areas and in different ways. Ravel with his unreal flexibility and rhythm. Totilas with his ability to sit and reach with the shoulder. I do think Totilas has more WOW factor, but Ravel can also bring a tear to my eye. And what I love the most about both of these horses is that they look happy while doing their jobs! They both seem like they have temperments even an ammy could love, with a huge amount of heart. They want to please their rider and they try their guts out. Love them both!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I definately think that they are both truely amazing horses!!!!!!! Totilas has his strengths and weaknesses and same with Ravel. After seeing the video of Totilas in the freestyle at Hickstead I would dare say that Ravel definately has straighter tempis and better half passes. But Totilas is unbeatable in Piaffe and Passage. Having that much elevation and suspension is just incredible!!!!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Compairing Ravel and Totilas doesn't make any sense.
                          Ravel is 11 years old and Totilas is only 9.

                          Totilas is a born talent, while Ravel is a talent that was made.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I don't think so.

                            They are very different. Very different horses have always competed against each other and some horses that are very different have done very well.

                            Usually, most years, the top contains a couple horses that gain their points in very, very different ways. One is a top scorer because he is so good at A, another is a top scorer because he's so good at B. I've seen horses that were at the top because they had very good extended gaits, for example, and very mediocre piaffe, and horses that basically all they did really well was piaffe and passage and other things were...oh well.

                            I think that Ravel is very supple, and that's the difference.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by slc2 View Post
                              I don't think so.

                              I think that Ravel is very supple, and that's the difference.


                              Wrong glasses on

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I'm just tickled to see you are so open to allowing others to have a different point of view than you.

                                I base that not on how strong his contact looks, it does look strong at times, nor the type of horse he is, which is a more solid type. I base that on how much his suppleness has increased, how supple he looks in specific areas of his body, how he uses his back and hind legs amd es[ecailly how lacking in 'stop action' his movements are, and on how quickly his suppleness has increased, as well as on a trainer who has explained to me at length how much Peters trains for suppleness and what techniques he uses, as well as how that horse has changed in a short period of time. I've been able to agree by looking for the specifics the trainer mentioned, by slowing down videos and looking at earlier and more recent videos and seeing the difference.

                                I think it is an incredible amount of suppleness for this type of horse to have developed.

                                Totilas is a whole different kind of problem.

                                You don't agree? Fine. I am still allowed to have a different opinion than you.
                                Last edited by slc2; Jul. 29, 2009, 07:32 AM.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Totilas is a born talent, while Ravel is a talent that was made.
                                  Theo,

                                  I am not sure this is true. But even it it were, why would it matter?
                                  See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    When did Theo move to Toronto?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      i far prefer how Ravel is ridden and how relaxed and supple he looks in comparison to Totilas who to me looks tight and short and unrelaxed and unnatural and unharmonious.

                                      how those two horses are ridden seem to me to be on two separate sides of the spectrum.....

                                      i would love to talk to the judges who give Totalis such gigantic scores - i want to know what they are seeing and why the humongous scores..... if it is for his inherent ability - then we are basically just judging talent and not the effect of the training.....

                                      eta: totalias has kick ass piaffes, i will give him that.... so yes, big scores seem appropriate.... it is the other stuff that i would love to understand the judges thinking.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        i far prefer how Ravel is ridden and how relaxed and supple he looks in comparison to Totilas who to me looks tight and short and unrelaxed and unnatural and unharmonious.

                                        how those two horses are ridden seem to me to be on two separate sides of the spectrum.....

                                        i would love to talk to the judges who give Totalis such gigantic scores - i want to know what they are seeing and why the humongous scores..... if it is for his inherent ability - then we are basically just judging talent and not the effect of the training.....
                                        I talked to the judges. After both tests.


                                        IMHO they gave Totilas the marks he deserved, he got lots for being loose, relaxed, harmonious.
                                        He got high marks for the technical work not just because of his inherent ability - although that would make stuff like elasticity, balance, energy of the hindquarters, activity, elasticity of the steps, fluency, cadence, regularity, taking weight, precise execution, uphill tendency, balance etc etc etc so much easier for the horse don't you think?


                                        Still, you are determined to only see the faults - which were also marked accordingly - i understand the thinking of the judges on the day far better than yours.

                                        Comment

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