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Rollkur--A Picture is worth a thousand words

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  • Original Poster

    #61
    Ya know, the more I read threads on this board, the more I just cannot believe how defensive and down right nasty some people are to one another (this thread is actually pretty tame compared to some I see).

    Maybe group therapy is in order?
    The two most important days in your life are the day you're born and the day you find out why. Mark Twain

    Comment


    • #62
      tewhann..after having read countless RK threads and never having replied to one..I just have one really short comment to make..BLECH...if you really believe in this particular issue, you need to figure out a way to not be so unbelievably offensive to others...screaming, ranting, and raving, are not the way to get people to listen...in fact it turns potential allies off..take out some booth space at horse related events, turn out some educational literature, find some riders that agree with you to do demos at these same events showing an alternative training method that garners good results..posting pictures taken out of context with hostile comments attached on this board is really not doing your cause any good..if indeed that is really what your are after, and I am not so sure it is..your posts make me think that you are one of those people who prefers to stir the pot, rather than find a truly workable solution to the issue you propose to be so passionate about.

      Comment


      • #63
        So true tradewind. But instead people like that are just typical loud mouthed "railbirds" who 9 times out of 10 can point out all the errors, but of course can't do it themselves.
        For some reason it is there personal mission to "inform the public" on bulletin boards. Yaaaa, suuuuuuuure!

        Comment


        • #64
          So the german riding and driving proffi organization who put a fold out poster (in St Georg) which said "rk/hyperflexion/to this we say no thank you' plus an explaination are just railbirds who want to stir the pot.
          I.D.E.A. yoda

          Comment


          • #65
            Yes, however it's quite interesting that the german's, especially Balkenhol himself, were not so much in an uproar when Nicole was using it.

            Comment


            • #66
              Maybe KB just wants a silver or gold medal for the team he coaches. Check out his comp plan. If the dutch are disqualified, the US has a good shot at least a silver medal in the next Olympics and he gets a big fat bonus.
              See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

              Comment


              • #67
                So the german riding and driving proffi organization who put a fold out poster (in St Georg) which said "rk/hyperflexion/to this we say no thank you' plus an explaination are just railbirds who want to stir the pot.
                Railbirds? Who knows. Stirring the pot? Absolutely. Bitter over being challenged by the Dutch? Probably. Looking for attention? Maybe. Truly concerned only for the welfare of the horse and with no other agenda? NO WAY.

                nhwr, that's an interesting bit of information. Many have questioned KB's motives, but I was not aware there was a monetary incentive as well.

                Surely there is nobody who genuinely believes that the motives of the anti-rollkur anti-Anky anti-dressage fanatics are pure? A person doesn't even have to be PRO-rollkur to seriously question the motives of the anti's.
                "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." George Burns

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by nhwr
                  Maybe KB just wants a silver or gold medal for the team he coaches. Check out his comp plan. If the dutch are disqualified, the US has a good shot at least a silver medal in the next Olympics and he gets a big fat bonus.
                  and why may I ask would the dutch be disqualified??
                  "the man mite be the head but the woman is the neck and the neck can turn the head any way she wants..." -smart greek woman

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    It's about education. It's about keeping something important on the table.
                    I understand that not everyone cannot comprehend this.
                    It's not about education it's about pushing your point of view which would be palatable if it was done in a less emotive more erudite style.

                    You don't need to "keep this topic on the table" it's been shoved down our throats to the extent that i am sure i'm not alone in saying i'm heartily sick of it. IF you really cared about this topic you'd better serve your point of view by posting a picture of a rider and trainer you approve of that is out in international competition where we all have a chance to see the work instead of alienating the people you'd like to reach.

                    So the german riding and driving proffi organization who put a fold out poster (in St Georg) which said "rk/hyperflexion/to this we say no thank you' plus an explaination are just railbirds who want to stir the pot.
                    __________________
                    Nobody said they were - the responses here are regarding the OP. However the German Proffi organisation has a huge horse industry to serve people may well wonder about their motives.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Hey it is just a theory

                      and why may I ask would the dutch be disqualified??
                      Because their training method is "abusive and cruel". And the team wouldn't even really have to be disqualified, just broken up or discreditted.

                      I am not saying that this is why KB acts the way he does. But it sure could be
                      See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        The germans were DEFINATLEY in an uproar wayyyy before this (ie with Uphoff, before that with the jump riders)....ie 25 years ago. There were many articles in Reiter Revue and Niggli himself had a #*$($& in the press about the situation.

                        Guess the rules 'push a point of view' as well.....but those who want to show by them should use them.
                        Last edited by ideayoda; Aug. 15, 2006, 06:31 PM.
                        I.D.E.A. yoda

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Take your pick

                          Originally posted by ideayoda
                          The germans were DEFINATLEY in an uproar wayyyy before this (ie with Uphoff, before that with the jump riders)....ie 25 years ago. There were many articles in Reiter Revue and Niggli himself had a #*$($& in the press about the situation.
                          The pot and kettle saga again.

                          Did you ever look over the fence to see the toolbox of the Old-Masters.

                          Probably not.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Exactly Horsedances.No the Old Masters training methods are only seen through rose tinted glasses.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Actually they dont/didnt, they heartily debated with one another. However, they all looked at the creating the same balance and collection (until levade) with all horses. Rk changes the focus of balance as a concept of training totally.
                              I.D.E.A. yoda

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by nhwr
                                Because their training method is "abusive and cruel". And the team wouldn't even really have to be disqualified, just broken up or discreditted.

                                I am not saying that this is why KB acts the way he does. But it sure could be
                                I get it- yeah- but ...yawn....they all would have to get up earlier and figure out some essential things first...like creating absolute lightness, using tact instead of force and...and...and...

                                let's face it - right now- the dutch are just a tad better.....
                                "the man mite be the head but the woman is the neck and the neck can turn the head any way she wants..." -smart greek woman

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  I wonder where Yoda gets this stuff? Little tid bits grabbed hither and yon?

                                  You need to look at the big picture in Germany before you decide exactly when they really started to become loud about rollkur.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Originally posted by ideayoda
                                    Actually they dont/didnt, they heartily debated with one another. However, they all looked at the creating the same balance and collection (until levade) with all horses. Rk changes the focus of balance as a concept of training totally.
                                    Keep dreaming Paula

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by Horsedances
                                      Keep dreaming Paula
                                      Theo please enlighten us as to what the ODGs *did* talk about ... ???
                                      Last edited by mbm; Aug. 15, 2006, 07:21 PM.

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Originally posted by Horsedances
                                        The pot and kettle saga again.

                                        Did you ever look over the fence to see the toolbox of the Old-Masters.

                                        Probably not.
                                        Theo please enlighten us to what tools you are talking about/.... if we looked over the fence at an ODG (say klimke or Podjasky or Watjen or WAZ or Steinbrect or Seunig or...) what would we see???? and not the random Rogue horse that needs to be taught a lesson... but the everyday horses that are being worked.... what woudl we see that would shock us?? because you (and others) keep saying stuff like this but then dont tell us exactly what you mean... .

                                        i know it is very hard to write about riding/training i am sure that some things got lost in translation etc.... (edited)
                                        Last edited by mbm; Aug. 15, 2006, 07:25 PM.

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Originally posted by nhwr
                                          Because their training method is "abusive and cruel". And the team wouldn't even really have to be disqualified, just broken up or discreditted.

                                          I am not saying that this is why KB acts the way he does. But it sure could be
                                          this is interesting and something i think about..... if someone changes their mind or become vocal about something, (not just roll kur) they tend to get accused of various things (none to nice).... but what about someone changing their mind because they have learned something that makes them have a change of heart, or they have decided that the cost is too high or that the ends dont justify the means??? isnt that valid??

                                          i mean the more i learn, the more my thoughts on things get refined - and sometimes i have a 360 degree change of heart. and while i am not KB (or others) i do think that it is possible for even the top people to learn and change.

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