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CDI Lingen - results disprove theory

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  • Original Poster

    Originally posted by mbm
    OMG. i am so sick of you folks. really. i was trying to be polite. i guess that doenst work around here. if you dont like my posts - dont read them and dont respond to them - its that simple. you can also just put me on your ignore list.
    Honey YOU INVITE responses, maybe you should ask questions and then say afterwards, 'but only people who will agree with me should respond' if you don't like it. If you are sick of us, then maybe YOU should use the ignore button???????

    Comment


    • I would have to agree with those who also find it beneficial for training the eye to discern aspects of correctness. Not just other riders, but my own vids and pics. I also find it extremely helpful to watch very good riders and try to emulate what I see. That DOES NOT always work out the way I wish though
      I find you mbm, more willing on this board to really mix it up with other posters. You are definitely more tenacious In fact, I'm really impressed with this board as compared to the "other". Much more diversity. I find I spend more time here since ole "suzy" came back up.
      *** 4 More Years ***
      *** 4 More Years ***

      Comment


      • Believe it or not, I am going to bring this discussion back to its humble beginnings. OP - Anky didn't win at Lingen on Painted Black or Krack C. this was presented as evidence that the judges are Not guilty of giving inflated scores to Anky. I still say that the results at Lingen prove that the judges AT Lingen This Year, didn't rate Anky highest. This does Not really say anything about past judging of Salerino and without seeing the preformances, it doesn't even prove that she wasn't given generous marks - I haven't had a chance to work through all the wonderful video that Theo put up on the internet. The scrolling menu makes it a little tougher for me to see if there are any Lingen rides shown. Anyway, does ANYONE out there know how well PB or KC did - beyond the scores - did they blow a line of changes, spook at a camera, stumble crossing X??? Or were their rides really beautiful, and maybe unjustly marked Low??? I don't know, and again, I only questioned the faulty logic presented in the OP.

        Then we have a somewhat related topic that developed. That Hubertus Schmidt, whom most people agree is pretty traditional in his training techniques, managed to place 1st and 2nd at this event. MBM pointed out this fact, saying that in the past, RK supporters had said, 'if classical training is so great, why doesn't it win? If classical supporters want to prove their system works, they need to have someone train in that manner, and then show and win". So, when that happened, MBM pointed it out. Which then brought out a host of various disclaimers - why what Wansuela showing a poor quality extension? I answered that one, and in a way, so did MBM - we feel that the extension shown is EXACTLY what the judges Like to see - so HS manages to produce it. Next - If HS won, then clearly the judges are NOT corrupt, so we are back to the original post - using a singular instance to try and prove that Past episodes of generous scoring were absolutely correct. Now, I don't live and die by the international dressage scene, so I don't know who was on the Lingen panel, and I don't know which of these judges were behind the letters at the recent World record setting events or even at the Olympics a couple years ago. So, I don't know if Any conclusions can be drawn about this set of results.

        I CAN say that possibly we are seeing a Positive Trend for dressage. MAYBE. And I don't mean that I want Anky to lose - because I rather LIKE her! I just want to see the judging of competitive dressage find its way back to the original concepts of balance and self carriage - demonstrating a harmonious relationship between rider and horse. If we start to see Ingrid Klimke, HS, and a number of other riders who hold tight to the traditional training techniques - continue to actually WIN and not just linger in the top 10, THEN we will know that there is little difference between classical and competitive dressage. But it will take more than a single show to really indicate that - and personally, I ain't holding my breath.

        Comment


        • Let's just wait and see what happens at WEG

          http://anky.nl/anky/news.php?language=EN&id=2002

          Comment


          • Great pics, thanks for posting Horsedances.

            Yes, lets wait for WEG, personally, I think Anky is unbeatable currently.

            I am a judge (upto 4th), and do a lot of scribing at the CDI level. No FEI judge that I have worked for has any problem using the full range of marks, or any problem marking what they see, regardless of the rider. These people are very educated. Also the riders are very educated, riders who choose to ride deeper, and riders who choose to not practice deep. Regardless, they are ALL very educated in all training methods. These elite riders spend 8 hours + per day in the saddle and under instruction, for years and years. You had better believe, they can ride!!

            mbm, you do bring grief raining down on your head. You are so dogmatic, and use the word *I* very frequently. At the same time, you are very open(and good for you for posting your videos), about having difficulty posting and sitting Sophie's new more energetic trot. Don't you see the disconnect between your experience level and your opinions?

            Comment


            • "OMG. i am so sick of you folks. really. i was trying to be polite. i guess that doenst work around here. if you dont like my posts - dont read them and dont respond to them "

              you take the cake. you absolutely and totally take the cake. more than anyone else here - EVER.

              'if you don't agree with me, don't post'.

              or else what? what exactly are you going to DO to people who 'respond to them' after you ORDERED them not to?

              when you have the power to not only say whatever you want and never have anyone disagree with you in this world, let me know.

              i think in order to get that, you'll need to start your OWN bulletin board and monitor it VERY carefully yourself, ROFLMAO!!!!!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Bronte
                Great pics, thanks for posting Horsedances.

                Yes, lets wait for WEG, personally, I think Anky is unbeatable currently.

                I am a judge (upto 4th), and do a lot of scribing at the CDI level. No FEI judge that I have worked for has any problem using the full range of marks, or any problem marking what they see, regardless of the rider. These people are very educated. Also the riders are very educated, riders who choose to ride deeper, and riders who choose to not practice deep. Regardless, they are ALL very educated in all training methods. These elite riders spend 8 hours + per day in the saddle and under instruction, for years and years. You had better believe, they can ride!!

                mbm, you do bring grief raining down on your head. You are so dogmatic, and use the word *I* very frequently. At the same time, you are very open(and good for you for posting your videos), about having difficulty posting and sitting Sophie's new more energetic trot. Don't you see the disconnect between your experience level and your opinions?
                But here we have the problem, posters on all these BB's don't spend 8 hours + per day in the saddle of their horses. Most riders start (and not only the topriders) at 6.00 in the morning riding their own horses, and after 1/2 hour lunch they start training their students, and at 19.00 hours they start giving clinics etc....

                This is exactly the problem on BB's: The most preachers over here are keyboard riders and trainers (not all of them , but you can easily recognize them when you look at their amount of postings).
                As stated before Sjef once posted on a BB and stated "If you all spend the same time in the saddle as you do behind your keyboard Anky would have much more competitors"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bronte

                  mbm, you do bring grief raining down on your head. You are so dogmatic, and use the word *I* very frequently. At the same time, you are very open(and good for you for posting your videos), about having difficulty posting and sitting Sophie's new more energetic trot. Don't you see the disconnect between your experience level and your opinions?
                  i use the term "I" becuase i was taught that is how you have a discussion.

                  and fwiw, i dont have any trouble sitting or posting my horses trot - what i posted about was how do i keep improving my ability to allow her to become more and more supple and elastic when i only ride one horse per day?? that is a bit diffetnt that how you make it sound.... (and if i am such a shitty rider *how* exactly did she get this new trot??)

                  i know i am not the best rider around (and i have said that many times) i also know that i am better than some of the people here that act like they know it all. (i have seen them ride)

                  i have come to believe that most of the people here dont care about discussion - they want to preach and condem. (shrug).

                  i wil continue on my journey of trying to learn as much as possible.

                  you all can have fun pulling each other down.

                  Comment


                  • From UDBB

                    Code:
                    Posted: 02 Jul 2006 00:34    Post subject: riding the "expressive" and athletic horse - help.   
                    
                     sophie is blossoming - and remembering how to be (very) athletic in her body - very elastic. 
                    
                    how the heck am i going to be able to really ride this without bouncing and banging her on her back? (in trot) ...
                    Code:
                    also, sitting the trot isnt so much of an issue. it is posting the trot that is an issue.

                    Comment


                    • You should be so lucky as to have a horse that has so much energy and elasticity that you are concerned about being able to ride her gaits well without blocking or compromising them or compromising rider seat and suppleness.

                      I recently saw a clinic with an FEI rider who is a high scorer at recognized show at I1 and I2 (74% at I1 was her last score on one horse) She was riding her young, upcoming horse, had shown him at 3rd with very good results and was consulting the clinician because with all her experience, she had difficulties because his gaits are so bouncy she had problems when regulating his forward and was concerned that it was compromising her seat and own balance.

                      She was like mbm HONEST about what she was facing, which is a good problem to have by the way. My retired trainer who is 75 and has been around the block a few times, told me it was one of the most honest thing she had ever seen. In fact, she was surprised the rider was so candid within earshot of another 50 people. Because we know what happens when happens when a rider admits to not being perfect, dont we?

                      I also remember a couple of GP riders and very established riders at the Lisa Wilcox Northern California seminar who did not have the same honesty and looked as though they were compromising all over the place to stay with their horses. I understand that the instruction they received did not make LW welcome again. Same things happened when Christine Stuckleburger visited almost 10 years ago. Her honesty was refreshing.

                      I think it is a credit to mbm and other riders who speak about what they face in their training honestly at the risk of sounding like complete beginners. Yes, you can have a good seat and understanding of the aids, and then meet a horse that is the next step up in terms of forward and gaits and have to adjust.

                      You guys need to read for comprehension.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        Originally posted by eqipoize
                        Believe it or not, I am going to bring this discussion back to its humble beginnings. OP - Anky didn't win at Lingen on Painted Black or Krack C. this was presented as evidence that the judges are Not guilty of giving inflated scores to Anky. I still say that the results at Lingen prove that the judges AT Lingen This Year, didn't rate Anky highest. This does Not really say anything about past judging of Salerino and without seeing the preformances, it doesn't even prove that she wasn't given generous marks -

                        If classical supporters want to prove their system works, they need to have someone train in that manner, and then show and win". So, when that happened, MBM pointed it out. Which then brought out a host of various disclaimers - why what Wansuela showing a poor quality extension? I answered that one, and in a way, so did MBM - we feel that the extension shown is EXACTLY what the judges Like to see - so HS manages to produce it.
                        Well my original point was that Anky doesn't just get Anky points, meaning they don't just see Anky on a horse an award her the points automatically, SHE probably is judged fairly - as witnessed by her other horses that DON'T win, and that my conclusion from this was that maybe Salinero wins because he is the best, not because the judges opinions are clouded by whatever.

                        And secondly, well I doubt very much that a) the judges WANT to see an unengaged trot, b) I doubt very much that the competitors TRY to create an unengaged trot - what rider in their right minds would and c) I believe the horses are winning DESPITE this comparitively unengaged trot not BECAUSE of it and as we don't know the scores that these individual movements get from the judges from either Schmidt, Anky, Brink etc that we can't assume that this is what the judges DO want. Weltall is fantastically engaged in his ext trot and get 9s for it, Salinero not so much and he gets 7s. I would suggest that the judges are very much wanting to see engagement in ext trot and mark accordingly when they don't see it enough, BUT that these horses with this style of trot do so much else so well they win or get high scores anyway.

                        Comment

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