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U.S. Rollkur Riders

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  • #21
    Originally posted by physical.energy
    hey, I'm a stalker too.... Now, who am I supposed to stalk?
    Remember me??!! ........


    • Original Poster

      Originally posted by knz66
      I can honestly say I have not see it being used at all in a warm up here locally although I do know a couple trainers that "attempt" it.

      Better answer?
      Yep, anyone doing it in public at a show says there might be a trend. That's what I'm looking for. But if they're attempting it, are they only doing a few strides, or a large portion of the warm up? And is the horse in the extreme hyperflexion position?

      Thanks for the response!
      "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"


      • #23
        Nope - never seen the extreme posturing as posted in some of the videos... Sure a couple have gone really deep for a couple strides here and there, but I couldnt tell if it was the horse or the rider


        • #24
          I have not personally seen it here either, although I have not been to a ton of shows. I have seen, however, someone lunging their horse with the sidereins quite a bit too short, and a TD come over and ask her to loosen them before the horse stumbled and flipped! (True story!!)


          • #25
            iancleese--Did I ever say it was rollkur? Lil ol' me??


            • Original Poster

              Once again reeling this back in and on track (I hope). Just wondering if you're seeing anything at the shows (lets add under saddle/being ridden) that resembles the longer term use of hyperflexion at dressage shows in the United States.
              "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"


              • #27
                Originally posted by Velvet
                Once again reeling this back in and on track (I hope). Just wondering if you're seeing anything at the shows (lets add under saddle/being ridden) that resembles the longer term use of hyperflexion at dressage shows in the United States.
                I don't really see anyone riding that way * at all * at least compared to the videos.
                Last edited by Pommederue; Sep. 17, 2007, 02:03 AM.


                • #28
                  i don't see much locally. i see a few people at the big shows such as fla. circuit who have worked with some of the prominent european trainers, i don't generally see the extreme extremes, just varying degrees of it. alot of people are somewhat behind the bit or vertical, but not rollkur.


                  • #29
                    I personally haven't myself and I do alot more watching than riding at shows . I have seen some riders ride their horse "deep" which to me is much different that rollkur. Deep to me is long, low and a little behind the vertical.

                    The shows have included local shows (carolinas) but all USDF recognized, a few CDIs, and Dressage at Devon. I always make a point to watch the warmups.

                    I actually thought it was a very legit question by the OP. I myself, still on the fence about the topic (about whether it is considered abuse, not whether or not is correct) and would be interested to know about any trainers who either publically or not use rollkur. Not to badmouth them but to evaluate.


                    • #30
                      I too think it's a legit question. Not in an attacking way, but in a purely curiosity driven way.

                      And no, I haven't seen it used in my area, but there have not been that many FEI level riders at the shows around here.


                      • #31
                        I saw it at a show in Wyoming.....................Oh, wait, they were trying to create the peanut roller............it was a Western show.


                        • #32
                          I haven't seen it but then I've only been in the US for 4 months total so far. I can say I've seen some exaggeratedly 'tough' riding from a Canadian rider at some bigger shows here in Germany but no RK style. As to the videos being doctored I don't think so. They pretty much display what I've been talking about on the topic for weeks and I must say I am very pleased to see that more and more people seem to regard it as being ugly and bad riding instead of a 'winning method' which was pretty much the dominant and quite aggressively promoted view on this board a few weeks ago.

                          As to why nobody would openly admit to using it, that is great. I felt shocked about I.Werth and Ludger Beerbaum when they had that embarrassing TV-outing on WDR and I think it is great that it seems to return to where it came from - some behind the barndoor secret at least not politically correct enough to be mentioned in public
                          Froh zu sein bedarf es wenig...


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by iancleese
                            O oh can i get in on this too? i always wanted to be followed. How exciting! I can feel the hate I can feel it! Peeps will you stalk me too, please?
                            Are you sure?


                            • #34
                              I haven't seen anything on par what what is going on in Europe except for one instance at a dressage clinic the other day. The rest of the warm ups I've seen haven't come close at all - but I don't go to all the shows; just a few.

                              4 year old horse - whose trainer "fresh from Germany" had this horse's nose between it's legs, spur spur spur - and rode that way for about 1/2 hour. Horse looked great before that - but once the crank and spank began - yuck. Clinician came out and worked with the rider for 45 minutes, off came the draw reins, off came the spurs, worked with her some more, and the horse was back to normal - actually - the horse was lovely.

                              That's the only thing that I've witnessed that so closely resembled the whole European thing. I don't know who this person was - only "fresh from Germany" whatever that means - this person may have been "fresh from a German prison" for all I know!

                              Take it or leave it - that's all I have that doesn't involve name calling or a 2nd gunman behind the grassy knoll.

                              Originally posted by Velvet
                              Once again reeling this back in and on track (I hope). Just wondering if you're seeing anything at the shows (lets add under saddle/being ridden) that resembles the longer term use of hyperflexion at dressage shows in the United States.
                              Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                              Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                              -Rudyard Kipling


                              • #35
                                Oh Wait....

                                I thought this was the slaughter thread!
                                Rollkur at shows around here??? Nope only at WP shows!!!


                                • #36
                                  what an incredible topic...???

                                  Are you expecting for folks that are in the know to offer up names or any information? Are you really meaning this question?? Or is this really very innocent (I have a hard time believing that...)

                                  Well- for starters- anyone who can read in the US will not practice this in public- not right now - with all the 30 or so committed posters across the world fighting a big war against RK...no they won't.
                                  Those folks business and livelyhood depends on it.
                                  What they do behind closed doors is not your business. And that's what it will be like in the future as well...!
                                  So- then what is this line of questioning about? Do you live so far from CDI's and rated shows that you can't see it for yourself? Are we starting a witchhunt?

                                  The ones that know won't post or will be amazed- they will not say a word on these boards- let me assure you. So this thread is meaningless and just kind of a feel-good-thingie.
                                  Hope you feel good!
                                  "the man mite be the head but the woman is the neck and the neck can turn the head any way she wants..." -smart greek woman


                                  • #37
                                    Gee Sabine, I actually do live too far to see CDI's here. Texas is a big state and not known for being the Dressage capital of the world. (Sorry fellow Texans, we can ride, but dang, we just don't have enough dressage going on.) I am curious about what is going on in the rest of the USA. I don't need names, dates or places, but it would be nice to know if as a nation of riders we are starting to adopt this method or are we continuing on in a more traditional fashion. I would be especially curious to hear what the warmups in Wellington and CA are like these days. No names or dates necessary.
                                    "I reject your reality and substitute my own" Adam Savage--Mythbusters


                                    • #38
                                      Any trend I've seen in the US is the same as slc and Fresh From Germany. The local FEI trainer goes to a clinic with a Big Name Trainer who practices rollkur. Local trainer brings it home, and cranks hers and her students' horses' noses around for six months or so. Usually it wears off when the next Nom Du Jour comes to town. If we are lucky the next big clinician is a Walter Zettl, and the trend dies quickly. The ugly downside of being an FEI trainer who relies on clinicians for training is being at the mercy of whoever is coming to the area.

                                      It is kind of a blessing in disguise that those BNTs are so busy. They can't get over here enough to set up systemized or systemic training program.
                                      Kathy Johnson


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by J Swan
                                        I haven't seen anything on par what what is going on in Europe .....

                                        That's the only thing that I've witnessed that so closely resembled the whole European thing. .
                                        PLEASE PLEASE do not fall into the mistake of believing that is typical for European training. Its NOT . Whether you are in America, Germany, Spain, Austria or England its got nothing at all to do with good training and good riding.

                                        I have taught classical riding and classical dressage for over 30 years and whilst many labour under the illusion that this technique is something to do with dressage, in my professional view rollkur is riding at its worst.

                                        Classical riding is about acquiring the knowledge to tune into the horse so that his natural grandeur and abilities are freed up and maximised. This has got nothing to do with that whatsoever! Those who seek to explain the videos are merely making excuses for disgusting riding and horsemanship - whether its a caputured moment in time or for excessive periods.

                                        Its bad for horses, its bad for dressage and its time it was outed and its time that there were some half decent judges knocking such appalling riding down to the level it belongs! If there are riders out there doing it, then by all means out them and sit back and enjoy the arguments and attempts at defending what is in my mind purely and simply terrible riding.

                                        I don't care what the likes of Anky van Grunsven has won, in my opinion she is an appalling rider. And whether the videos are cut spliced and edited or not, just go and watch her. Aside from the hyperflexion - her use of hands and curb are appalling and her use of stirrups is horrific - clearly she has horses that must be so troubled that they've switched off totally to what I can only descirbe as horrendous abuse and chronic torture.

                                        I would like to think that if I didn't drag her off a horse of mine quick enough, that it would have the good sense and spirit to quickly dump her!
                                        Last edited by Thomas_1; Jun. 24, 2006, 09:18 AM.


                                        • #40
                                          Thomas....well put! I too find her style of riding rather ugly. But that is my opinion...we all have our own style...but read this folks...I, ME, MYSELF, find her style abusive. I have seen it first hand at many european cdi's. I simply do not subscribe to it, I do not train with her, nor do I train with anyone that does. The Buck, Euro, Pound stops here. I simply will not contribute, in any manner, to a practice I do not agree with.