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*pics added to OP*an opinion from both sides of the warmblood vs arab discussion

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  • #41
    Nice looking horses! I'd be happy to take one (or both!)...it's so neat how they soak up new things very quickly.

    I own a Spanish-bred arab and am having a blast...For me she is a great fit. I've also enjoyed other breeds. I would like to buy a WBxArab for my next horse.

    Comment


    • #42
      I really like the bay in the pics! He looks happy to be there doing his job .

      I think as long as I own an Arabian I will never have or want a dog... you get both in one animal .

      I like Two Simple's story about the half wild youngsters, it really hits home... Last year my mare foaled six days before I delivered our son... (ummmm, I don't recommend mare watch when you are nine months preggers ), so you can imagine that foal had very little handling for the first couple of weeks. No worries though, I knew she would come around; now she is the first one to come to the fence for scratches and pats .

      I love a good horse of any breed. I have worked with many different horses with all kinds of dispositions and they have all taught me something. A horse treats every rider as a clean slate... why can't every rider extend the same courtesy to the horse?
      \"For all those men who say, \"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free,\" here\'s an update for you: Nowadays 80% of women are against marriage. Why? Because women realize it\'s not worth buying an entire pig just to get a little sausage.\"-

      Comment


      • #43
        I will prob. get beat for such a silly question but......I am confused

        If you are talking about a type of horse then wouldn't a hotblood and a coldblood cross be a warmblood? I mean it wouldn't be a hot blood and it isn't a cold blood. Technically an Arabian is a hotblood but thats not its breed. Should I not be thinking 1+1=2 on such simple terms?

        From what I thought most "real" WBs developed from mixing hotbloods and coldbloods selectively........so wouldn't the draft/hotblood cross be a predcurser to the "Real" WB? Just a question because when I think hot/coldblood I think of type 1st then breed. If not what type are they?

        Now if your talking about breeds thats a different story then no an arab/draft cross is not a registerable warmblood except in certian performance registerys?

        I like both arabs and WBs. I have an anglo myself but can see the beauty of a WB too.
        Last edited by Samjen; Jun. 21, 2006, 01:32 PM.

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        • #44
          I event and I currently own a DW/SF who is spectacular and I love him to bits and rarely don't win the dressage.

          I used to own an egyptian Arab and I've never met another horse like him. He took a bit to get it, but once it was there, it was there. It was like overnight with him, a lightbulb turned on and suddlenly he was round, forward, and swinging. I've never met a horse who LOVED the dressage ring as much as him. He was the biggest show off. He'd get in the ring and was an absolute pleasure to ride in it because he loved it so much. He's cleaning up here in Ontario with his new owner. She's only got him to second so far, but he's got tons of potential. http://community.webshots.com/photo/...8917466EEZKkB#

          His mind was fabulous for dressage, he HATED to jump away from home. But he was a real sweetie to deal with.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #45
            Originally posted by merrygoround
            slc might not comment.

            The horse looks fine, the rider needs a helmet.

            Asbestos time.
            first - why wouldnt slc reply? she replies to most other riding photos posted.

            second - why would it matter if she did or didnt?

            third - please keep your helmet comments to yourself

            the black horse had no walk, trot or canter when i first started riding him. he had a lateral amble type walk, jog, and a 4 beat croup high lope. very well trained for a western pleasure horse, but not acceptable for the dressage court!!!!
            Nothing worth having comes easily.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by Gucci Cowgirl
              first - why wouldnt slc reply? she replies to most other riding photos posted.
              Because twknltoz, aka The Hall Monitor, told her to go away if she thought this was such a stupid subject.

              second - why would it matter if she did or didnt?
              It doesn't. Not one whit.

              the black horse had no walk, trot or canter when i first started riding him. he had a lateral amble type walk, jog, and a 4 beat croup high lope. very well trained for a western pleasure horse, but not acceptable for the dressage court!!!!

              Weeeeelllll .... that's what usually wins in Arabian WP. And I suppose the horse would have to be well trained (and pretty tolerant) to be squashed up to move like that. But it's not what I'd call a well-trained WP horse.

              And now you know why I quit showing in it, even though I loved the clothes. I called it quits after getting the gate in favor of horses that loped the entire way around the arena on the wrong lead, but whose heads (and gaits) were correctly squinched up. I had a great ride, my horse has a beautiful lope, but her head was slightly ahead of the vertical.

              And to make this dressage-related ... The pictures of dressage riders using rollkur remind me of how Arabian WP horses are warmed up. Lovely. Simply lovely.
              __________________________
              "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
              the best day in ten years,
              you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

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              • #47
                I think the trot pics are fab, coming along nicely It looks like you're doing a good job. I really enjoy seeing ANY breed relaxed and swinging in their work. (Altho, they all seem behind the bit to me)

                If this thread wasn't about which breed is better, the title would be changed.
                Carol and Princess Dewi

                **~Doccer'sDressage~**

                Comment


                • #48
                  Gucci Cowgirl,
                  If you put pictures of yourself up and make assertions, people are going to comment. I don't think the mention of a helmet was out of line...but moving on.

                  I have nothing against Arabs. I know a trainer with who is highly competitive on the warmbloods but I have seen her ride a customers arab. He is a great mover, through, seeks the contact, uphill etc. If I were smaller, I would consider a horse like him. I am quite tall and find Arabs to be too small. By the way, you look kind of big on those guys. Not that you are big at all but the picture is not as show ring pleasing as you would be on a larger horse. Also, the saddle looks too small.

                  You say you found these guys to be "highly motivated to work, and easier to get through" but they do not look truly through in any of the pictures. They still look a bit broken in the back, croup high and not seeking the contact but curling. Have you noticed where the poll is in the pictures or that the hocks appear quite a lot higher than the knees?

                  I don't doubt that they are smart, trainable, or fun to ride, but they perhaps haven't been retrained to this great through dressage horse quite yet. Undoing those issues takes a lot of time regardless of how good you are. They may never get there. I wish you luck because you look like a good rider and if you are having fun with them, go for it.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Janet
                    NO.
                    Well technically, YES.
                    Sorry to disagree.
                    www.usedtackshop.com

                    "We must stand-up and speak for those who cannot speak for themselves."

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by mp

                      And to make this dressage-related ... The pictures of dressage riders using rollkur remind me of how Arabian WP horses are warmed up. Lovely. Simply lovely.
                      That was what I thought of too, the first time I saw it...ick.
                      "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                      ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Used Tack n Horse Stuff Store
                        Well technically, YES.
                        Sorry to disagree.
                        Well, technically NO.
                        Try registering one of these Arab/draft crosses in a warmblood studbook.
                        "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                        ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by Ghazzu
                          Well, technically NO.
                          Try registering one of these Arab/draft crosses in a warmblood studbook.
                          How about the AWS.
                          It could happen.
                          The foal could also be registered as a Half Arab.

                          And please don't forget the Trak book, which is closed. They have a couple of incredible FULL ARAB stallions that are approved, only to approved Trak mares.
                          www.usedtackshop.com

                          "We must stand-up and speak for those who cannot speak for themselves."

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Used Tack n Horse Stuff Store
                            How about the AWS.
                            It could happen.
                            The foal could also be registered as a Half Arab.

                            And please don't forget the Trak book, which is closed. They have a couple of incredible FULL ARAB stallions that are approved, only to approved Trak mares.
                            Leaving aside he issue of the AWS, which will take *anything*, so long as it isn't 100% draft or 100% Arab or TB,
                            the half-Arab studbook is *not* a warmblood registry.
                            And, while I am fully aware of the fact that there are some PB Arab stallions approved by the Trakhener resgistry, that is far from the example of taking a *draft* and crossing it with an *Arab* and attempting to get the offspring entered in the Trak studbook. As you note yourself, the choice of mares is quite restricted, and I don't see anything about *draft* mares...
                            "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                            ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by Used Tack n Horse Stuff Store
                              How about the AWS.
                              It could happen.
                              The foal could also be registered as a Half Arab.

                              And please don't forget the Trak book, which is closed. They have a couple of incredible FULL ARAB stallions that are approved, only to approved Trak mares.
                              I don't think anyone is forgetting about the Trak book, which also has approved some p.b. Arabian mares (Bazy Tankersley-bred), if memory serves.

                              I bet the question that caused the "NO" was this one:

                              So wouldnt say...a Percheon/Arab be a warmblood?
                              I'll leave it to people who know something about WBs to say if that answer is correct, AWS notwithstanding.

                              I agree with whoever said draft/Arab crosses are a huge crapshoot. A friend has a Belgian/Arab mare that is a very nice mover. Standing still, however, the horse looks more suited to pulling a beer wagon than dressage. The owner did register her as a half-Arab, but not with AWS.
                              __________________________
                              "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                              the best day in ten years,
                              you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #55
                                I of course agree that they are too far behind the vertical, but the fact that their legs are literally still moving forward AND that they have a decent contact is light years ahead of how they were going before. remember these horses are not trained to take any sort of contact. the black one, if you put him on contact, and add leg, he just got shorter and deeper and more stung out behind. thats how he was trained.

                                the bay one, used to curl his neck at any thought of being put on contact, and was used to floating around 3 moles too long both in front and behind the saddle, and not having to shift his center of balance from front to back.

                                the fact that they have any amount of contact is a GOOD thing. remember where they started, then make judgements

                                also, this is all in good fun, I am not or have not ever considered them dressage horses, they just needed excercise and I was happy to ride them. so the fact that I am too big for them is completely accurate, just moot.
                                Nothing worth having comes easily.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Uggh! "Warmblood" has become quite a generic term these days. If you were to ask someone who was producing a TV show, who's maybe done a little research on the surface to come up with a definition of what a "warmblood" is for the average viewer out there, they would say it's a cross of a "coldblood" (draft) to a "hotblood" (TB or Arab).

                                  However, to the really nitpicky die-hard horse enthusiasts (such as me!), "warmbloods" would refer to breeds in the European registries, such as Hanoverian, Oldenburger, Dutch, Swedish, etc. If you look at the lineage of those horses, they came from heavier carriage-type horses (not draft horses which are MUCH heavier) crossed with lighter types such as TB or Arab. The goal was to make the carriage type horse more into a riding type (not just in size or bone thickness, but also structure and movement). The breeds were refined and improved by infusing the right types over generations into todays warmbloods which are bred for sport.

                                  Mixing a draft horse to a TB or Arab basically skips all the years of selective breeding that has been established and controlled by the European warmblood registries, and essentially you are skipping all the steps that have taken years to produce this type of horse, and also at the same time taking a crapshoot on what the resulting offspring will be.

                                  Of course some of the "draft crosses" (which I like to refer to them as instead of "warmbloods") do end up making nice riding horses, and some do make it to the top. But again, it's a crapshoot and I think the draft crosses that make it to the top of their sport are more the exception rather than the norm.

                                  Phew, that's the quickest and dirtiest explanation I can come up with!

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    I think for most people there is a distinction between a warmblood as a type and a Warmblood as a breed. As a general warmblood, most *general* horsemen would consider a warmblood a cross between a draft and a hotblooded horse (which I think are only arabs and tbs). QHs and everything else inbetween in theory is a warmblood. So it really depends on who you ask.

                                    People that breed warmbloods will say that only Hanoverians, Traks, Oldenburgs, etc are warmbloods. I don't think it takes away from these breeds to call draft crosses warmbloods as well so I don't understand why some people seem to take it personally. Obviously, the Warmblood breeds have had years of selective and strict breeding and in general makes for a superiour sporthorse.

                                    Regarding the AWS, I thought they had inspections? Do they mean anything? It would be nice if they got there act together and started selective registration.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      ditch your spurs -- and close your hands
                                      and your arab has tongue over bit --

                                      bring your hands back to pomel position --

                                      its not about breeds as any breed can do dreessage mines an old coblett

                                      but will say your hands are strong on the bit and hevy --

                                      becuase you ride open hand bit like a newsapaper then you relaying
                                      on the horse and hes doing your thinking astispating --

                                      so close your hands and ask the horse more in a polite manor then you will get a better repsonse that judges might give you more points for

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        no offence meant but try using your legs and not the spurs

                                        if you ride with close hands and brring the horse up into the bit
                                        then you can lenghten andshorten strides

                                        in those piccys you going to fast-- for a dressage test

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          #60
                                          Originally posted by goeslikestink
                                          ditch your spurs -- and close your hands
                                          and your arab has tongue over bit --

                                          exactly when did I ask for a riding critique? hands are wide for a reason - they create less of an "escape" area for a horse to get behind the bit. and no, he doesnt have his tongue over the bit, he is licking his lips, which is a bad habit created by twisted wire snaffles and bicycle chains that he wore at the arab barns.

                                          bring your hands back to pomel position --

                                          once again, hands are where I want them on this horse at this point in time.



                                          its not about breeds as any breed can do dreessage mines an old coblett

                                          when did any one on this thread say or imply that only certain breeds can do dressage?

                                          but will say your hands are strong on the bit and hevy --

                                          its called creating contact. horses dont become light in the hand without first learning to create a strong contact...its from the hind legs starting to push off the ground, not from me pulling back.

                                          becuase you ride open hand bit like a newsapaper then you relaying
                                          on the horse and hes doing your thinking astispating --

                                          does a baby horse under saddle get ridden with hands half an inch apart? no. the triangle idea creates stability in contact for young and remedial horses, until they can balance and accept contact consistently.

                                          so close your hands and ask the horse more in a polite manor then you will get a better repsonse that judges might give you more points for

                                          did you not read the post I made that said "I have not or ever considered these horses dressage, it is purely for fun and excercise." when did I say these were ever going to be in front of a judge? Also, the photo you call "too fast" is called "impulsion" And those spurs are impossible for me to actually put on the horses' sides, as they are tiny and my legs hang past the wide part of both horses' ribs.

                                          Lets see some photos of you riding remedial or baby horses that have been trained in the exact opposite way that you ride...I would love to see them as the tone of your posts suggests you are quite an amazing professional trainer.

                                          do your research before you attack someone's riding. I would never ask for a riding critique on an internet forum. For me forums are for discussions. I have a trainer, thank you. I would appreciate it if you could keep those comments to yourself, as you are not my trainer, and I would bet a hundred million dollars you couldnt hold a candle to mine
                                          Nothing worth having comes easily.

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