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How can people train horses this way? It is abusive.

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  • #21
    This is rediculous. There are such things as trips or mis-steps that cause awkward jumps and reasons for refusals. But I have seen many horses fall in the field and run into trees and fences henceforth putting their bodies in "unnatural" positions. But its not abuse. Its not even a repeated action. I doubt those pictures have happened over and over and over in sequence.

    I might just have to label you a troll today. Keep up the good work!
    GO TARHEELS!
    COMH
    http://community.webshots.com/user/funnyknuckles
    http://community.webshots.com/user/funnyknuckles2

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    • #22
      http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...skye1/fall.jpg

      That one is CLEARLY rider abuse.

      Sickening. There should be a warrant out for that horse's arrest!


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      • #23
        nhwr-

        You are welcome to come sit on my now semi-retired Advanced event horse to see who wants to go at those jumps more, him or you. I bet you a million dollars it will be him.


        "Saying these are just "accidents" or a moment in time is a cop out, isn't it?"

        I am still trying to decide if you are joking or not. Go back to the example of horrible trailer accidents. Does this make you consider it cruel to put a horse in a trailer?
        http://www.MyVirtualEventingCoach.com

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        • #24
          HAHA Rider abuse! Yes, lets report the pony.
          GO TARHEELS!
          COMH
          http://community.webshots.com/user/funnyknuckles
          http://community.webshots.com/user/funnyknuckles2

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          • #25
            JS Mom, I think you are just saying these things because he isn't a fancy WB with flashy gaits. It is your prejudice. Who would want a horse like that, anyway? Not me. A donkey is a much more servicable mount.
            You sound like SLC now putting words in my mouth I was defending the ass not putting him down. I'm sure that ass moves just as well as a WB's~! And have you EVER seen a WB do airs above ground like that? I think not! LONG LIVE THE DONKEYS I have a feeling after poeple see that photo they shall realize just how undervalued they are and shall be the new flavour of the month (after the Gypsey Vanner thing dies down )
            I have horse to sell to you. Horse good for riding. Can pull cart. Horse good size. Eats carrots and apples. Likes attention. Move head to music. No like opera! You like you buy.

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            • #26
              Just and and

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              • Original Poster

                #27
                Its like rai-ha-hain on your wedding day

                I think it's ridiculus to say that those pictures are "cruelty". Accidents happen, and if you are trying to compare the falls in eventing to the cruelty of Rollkur that's crazy. The Rollkur horses look very forced and unhappy. Upper level event horses LOVE cross country. Sure they don't like to fall down, but it really doesn't happen that often. And as I said, bad accidents happen when the horse is loose in the field too. And I've seen some pretty bad trailer accidents. Does this mean that trailering horses is cruel?

                Cruelty is FORCING the horse to do something he doesn't want to do, or doing something painfull to them. And no one can force a horse over a jump if they don't want to go.
                An accident is something that happens that couldn't be anticipated. Clearly, it can be anticipated that a horse would fall and be injured or even die in these situations. Saying it doesn't happen very often makes it OK? These noble creatures gift us with the potential for a marvelous relationship. Are we to treat them so casually? Are they disposable then? We must be their protectors and their voice. And the excuse that these are elite athletes, different from others and they like it, doesn't seem to hold much water either.

                If cruelty is forcing the horse to do something it clearly doesn't want to do or is painful to them, it is cruel to teach a horse to tie, make some horses stand for the shoer, to start them under saddle or sometimes just take them out of the pasture. You ask if it is cruel to put a horse in a trailer, by your own definition, it could be. Let me ask you this, do you think the horse really wants to go anywhere?

                It depends on your view point, I guess
                See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

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                • #28
                  Okay, as to the whole thing- Abuse by Rollkur and Abuse of Event horses...

                  Why are either of them abuse? Rollkur appears to me to be a "training method". It is one that I personally believe does not "achieve the desired affect" of creating a "true dressage horse"... but that is my opinion. Those horses are doing a job. They are well cared for, well feed, probably even "loved". They have gleaming coats and good weight. They work what... at max 1 1/2 hours per day? Their riders believe in "stretching and hyperflexion". So do gymnasts and ballerinas... Are they abused? I don't see it.

                  If you are going by the pictures and claiming that the horses are "unhappy and tense"... you should take a look at my fat, walk, trot QH in the ring. If he is required to canter (and he has no soundness issues and isn't old!), his expression is MUCH worse than that! If you took a picture of him at that moment, he would appear to be the most abused creature in the world! Is he? No way! Same goes for many horses I have known! I had a mare that had a perpetual ear pinning! Was she abused? (She may have thought so...)
                  No... she just chose to express herself all the time (like some of the posters here ) Just because the training method doesn't achieve what YOU or I percieve as the desired, happy, elastic, forward moving, bit accepting result... does not mean that it is abuse. There is room in this world for more than one opinion. Let people make up there own mind (and it gives us more people to beat in the dressage ring )

                  Same thing for eventing. A true event horse loves his job. He is going to go over the fence with or without the help from his navigator! He may or may not take opinions about when and where to jump from and he or his rider may make a mistake at some point. Is it abuse? Does everyone like it? No... Does any one like watching a fall? No! But no one likes watching a car accident either, but everyone wants to drive.

                  Anyway, seems like the term "abuse" has become incredibly over used in the world. Why can't we just have differences of opinions? Sometimes, there is more than one right way to achieve a goal...
                  If you always do what you've always done- you'll always get what you've always gotten.
                  Madison Ridge Farm

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                  • #29
                    The Superman Horse picture is my new background for my desktop.
                    ***Honorary Member of the "What is BOSS?" Cult...er...CLIQUE***
                    ***Prominent Member of the 'Irrelevent Posters Clique'***
                    CrayolaPosse ~ Bluegreen

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                    • #30
                      nhwr before this thread goes completely nuts, I am 100% behind you. Funny parts aside. I believe you this was not meant to be a funny thread.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by nhwr
                        An accident is something that happens that couldn't be anticipated. Clearly, it can be anticipated that a horse would fall and be injured or even die in these situations. Saying it doesn't happen very often makes it OK?

                        What a crock!

                        Now "it can be anticipated that a horse will fall and be injured or even die"? How ignorant.

                        An accident is simply-- an accident. To say an accident is something that can't be anticipated shows a lack of sense. You probably get in your car everyday. Do you realize you have a chance of getting in a car accident every day? This could definately be anticipated. Car accidents happen every day! Since you know they are a possibility, by your definition, if you were involved in a car accident, it would not be an accident?

                        And horses have a good chance of injury in the field, with no rider on their backs, or in the stall alone. They can even get hit by lightning. Maybe we should line them all up and shoot them to spare them the abuse!
                        http://www.MyVirtualEventingCoach.com

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                        • #32
                          An accident is something that happens that couldn't be anticipated. Clearly, it can be anticipated that a horse would fall and be injured or even die in these situations. Saying it doesn't happen very often makes it OK? These noble creatures gift us with the potential for a marvelous relationship. Are we to treat them so casually? Are they disposable then? We must be their protectors and their voice. And the excuse that these are elite athletes, different from others and they like it, doesn't seem to hold much water either.
                          Can you anticipate that you will be in a car accident? If you put your child in the car with you everyday, and are then in an accident... does this constitute cruelty and abuse?

                          Just because I let my horse event... or I let me child play baseball... or whatever, this does not mean that I am treating them casually! I am developing that relationship to be strong and true. I am placing all of my trust into an animal that in turn gives me his. I ask him if he trusts me... and he says yes. He asks the same of me. They are not disposable, and I don't think that you will find a truer group of horseman than the event riders, because we do take the time to develop that relationship with our horses.
                          What would YOUR horse do for you?
                          If you always do what you've always done- you'll always get what you've always gotten.
                          Madison Ridge Farm

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                          • #33
                            horses die from pasture accidents. they get injured ALL the time. does that mean we should keep them locked up all day? but then surely something would go wrong in the stall, too, and they'd get hurt that way. perhaps we should put all horses down!

                            i don't know what happened with that case against anky and the one horse dying, but wasn't that associated with rk? at least for some time? so flat work can kill horses, too? or just any horse thats prone to a heart attack?

                            I thought the thread was supposed to be funny... apparently i was wrong??


                            as an eventer, I am offended. For the most part, these horses only jump round XC cuz they are dragging us to the jumps. The others usually weed themselves out by not doing well (stopping/running out). I don't know about your horse, but mine runs to the gate when I call him. I can only guess it's because he's so excited to get abused that he just can't wait for me to walk out to him!

                            people get killed in car accidents every day, does that mean we shouldn't drive? accidents happen, and it DOES NOT mean any one life is valued less than another.

                            what exactly are you trying to say here?
                            "Do you care, or don’t you care? Because if you do care, you better speak up now or take what you get."
                            — Denny Emerson www.savethe3day.org
                            **proud member of the trakehNERD group**

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by bigdreamer
                              I don't know about your horse, but mine runs to the gate when I call him. I can only guess it's because he's so excited to get abused that he just can't wait for me to walk out to him!

                              Yep. My horse could never wait to be abused either. Now that he's semi-retired, he stands at the gate pawing, just begging me for some of the abuse he used to suffer.
                              http://www.MyVirtualEventingCoach.com

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                              • #35
                                Apparently from reading some of the responses, irony has become a lost art form.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  *sigh* this is just silly.

                                  people die riding... does that mean we shouldn't ride, either? perhaps the horses are training us to be bad riders so we fall off and kill ourselves. perhaps the horses have a secret plan to take over the world by picking us off one by one!
                                  "Do you care, or don’t you care? Because if you do care, you better speak up now or take what you get."
                                  — Denny Emerson www.savethe3day.org
                                  **proud member of the trakehNERD group**

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by lukas1987
                                    Apparently from reading some of the responses, irony has become a lost art form.
                                    I really don't think nhwr is kidding. I hope I'm wrong.
                                    http://www.MyVirtualEventingCoach.com

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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by lukas1987
                                      Apparently from reading some of the responses, irony has become a lost art form.
                                      amen to that!

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Yep. My horse could never wait to be abused either. Now that he's semi-retired, he stands at the gate pawing, just begging me for some of the abuse he used to suffer.
                                        From following the rollkur threads, the next response should be: Well your horse is just suffering from learned helplessness.

                                        So there is no mistake, I am kidding with what I just typed above.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Good lord people....

                                          SarCHASM. (n). the gap between the author of sarcastic wit and the recipient who doesn't get it.

                                          Caitlin
                                          Caitlin
                                          *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
                                          http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

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