Now THIS is an Arab dressage horse!

[angel]

Actually, Arabian blood, especially through the breeding of Anglo-Arabians is "traditional." What you are seeing with Warmbloods is a "style" thing. The Warmblood is a larger horse, so the the rider's weight does not affect the motion by as great a degree, and this minimizes the rider's mistakes as well. It takes more ability for the rider to do well on the Arabian, whose frame shows pilot error rather quickly.

[grayarabpony]

I kind of agree with oldbag. He's pretty enough, and obviously technically correct (ie can perform the movements asked), but there's something almost pacey in his trot--he moves side to side rather than forward. It might be that he is rather long. Ah well, I'm all for 'non-traditional' breeds in dressage, because that's what the discipline is about--producing horses that move correctly--and there are so many drafts, arabs, etc. that perform at the upper levels very well (and I'll disagree with oldbag here--they can outperform the traditional warmblood). But I think it can be unfair to the horse to paint it as something it is not, and ask it to do something that is more physically demanding than its conformation will allow.

1) I agree with Dazedandconfused that video can make a horse look longer than it really is

2) horse's trot is not pacey at all

3) Anyone else remember that Lipizanners and Brentina are rather long?

[quietann]

Actually, Arabian blood, especially through the breeding of Anglo-Arabians is "traditional." What you are seeing with Warmbloods is a "style" thing. The Warmblood is a larger horse, so the the rider's weight does not affect the motion by as great a degree, and this minimizes the rider's mistakes as well. It takes more ability for the rider to do well on the Arabian, whose frame shows pilot error rather quickly.

Another thing about the smaller horses -- especially in the "hotter" breeds like Arabs and Morgans -- is that everything happens very quickly! The idea that the bigger/longer ones "absorb" more rider error makes sense in a way.

[FriesianX]

Another thing to remember is that the Arabian blood IS used in Warmblood lines. It is the original refining blood. Some of the Trakehners are heavily Arabian, and some of the Swedish horses have quite a bit of Arab too. Even Hanoverian approves an ocassional Arab - in fact, there was a mare approved AHA this year who is owned by a COTHer.

Will we see a purebred Arabian in the Olympics? Probably not. But how many Olympic horses DO we see every four years? Not too many I think this little guy looks quite fun and easy to ride - what more could most of us ask for

[pintopiaffe]

I can't wait until I can SEE the video. Can't do video until I get to the job with high speed.

Interesting discussion, with lots of 'how we were raised in dressage' showing.

My guy is an amalgam, Polish/Swedish on top, Crabbett on the bottom, with some Egyptian. Most folks can't figure out quite *what* he is, which I guess is bad for the breed standard, but since he wins in open competition, good for Arabs in dressage. His kids are doing the same. (not purebreds, 1/2-5/8)

Another thing to remember is that the Arabian blood IS used in Warmblood lines. It is the original refining blood

Meg Hamilton said 'this is the type of horse used in Europe for refining.'

I truly think that most folks either fall in love with Arabs, or hate them due to type and stereotype. The way that *I* love a finely boned head with a wide forehead and fine muzzle, some folks love a big, noble head, with 'character.' I think BOTH grow on you when it's an individual you know and love.

I can't wait to see this video. I *hated* Arabs and if you ever told me I'd be BREEDING Arab Cross Sporthorses, I'd have laughed you out of town. But they are kind, trainable, athletic, competitive and affordable. There used to be a great article on the Everglades site (no longer up that I can find) on why Arabs are an ideal AA or "Blue Collar" competition dressage horse.

When people boo and bash saying there aren't many on the "international FEI scene", well, there aren't many HORSES period, and fewer riders... While most of us aspire to the greatest we can be, many of us know that affording National or Int'l competition is simply out of the question. Doesn't mean we don't want to do GP someday, just doesn't mean doing it at Gladstone or Aachen.

It's fabulous to have a new 'little big horse' role model. Seldom Seen, after all, is whom I blame ENTIRELY for this foolish, rewarding, heartbreaking addiction that is dressage.

[WhatzUp]

Actually, Arabian blood, especially through the breeding of Anglo-Arabians is "traditional." What you are seeing with Warmbloods is a "style" thing. The Warmblood is a larger horse, so the the rider's weight does not affect the motion by as great a degree, and this minimizes the rider's mistakes as well. It takes more ability for the rider to do well on the Arabian, whose frame shows pilot error rather quickly.

Hi,

I respectfully completely disagree with the above.

Sensitivity is not directly proportional to the size of the horse.

Yours in sport,

Lynn

[WhatzUp]

...

I can't wait until I can SEE the video. Can't do video until I get to the job with high speed.

Interesting discussion, with lots of 'how we were raised in dressage' showing.

My guy is an amalgam, Polish/Swedish on top, Crabbett on the bottom, with some Egyptian. Most folks can't figure out quite *what* he is, which I guess is bad for the breed standard, but since he wins in open competition, good for Arabs in dressage. His kids are doing the same. (not purebreds, 1/2-5/8)



Meg Hamilton said 'this is the type of horse used in Europe for refining.'

I truly think that most folks either fall in love with Arabs, or hate them due to type and stereotype. The way that *I* love a finely boned head with a wide forehead and fine muzzle, some folks love a big, noble head, with 'character.' I think BOTH grow on you when it's an individual you know and love.

I can't wait to see this video. I *hated* Arabs and if you ever told me I'd be BREEDING Arab Cross Sporthorses, I'd have laughed you out of town. But they are kind, trainable, athletic, competitive and affordable. There used to be a great article on the Everglades site (no longer up that I can find) on why Arabs are an ideal AA or "Blue Collar" competition dressage horse.

When people boo and bash saying there aren't many on the "international FEI scene", well, there aren't many HORSES period, and fewer riders... While most of us aspire to the greatest we can be, many of us know that affording National or Int'l competition is simply out of the question. Doesn't mean we don't want to do GP someday, just doesn't mean doing it at Gladstone or Aachen.

It's fabulous to have a new 'little big horse' role model. Seldom Seen, after all, is whom I blame ENTIRELY for this foolish, rewarding, heartbreaking addiction that is dressage.

Hi,

To clarify, the great Seldom Seen was a Connemara x Thoroughbred,
not an Arab.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seldom_Seen

Yours in sport,

Lynn

[Albion]

Hi,

To clarify, the great Seldom Seen was a Connemara x Thoroughbred,
not an Arab.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seldom_Seen

Yours in sport,

Lynn

I didn't get the impression PP was claiming Seldom Seen was an Arab, rather that he was a "'little big horse' role model" & such 'role models' can be good for the sport.

[WhatzUp]

...

I didn't get the impression PP was claiming Seldom Seen was an Arab, rather that he was a "'little big horse' role model" & such 'role models' can be good for the sport.

Hi,

I did not get that impression either, but there are folks that do not
know who Seldom Seen is so I thought I was post...

My friend Selina Selinger rode a Connemara x Thoroughbred at the
Rolex Three Day Event (when it was a *** only) and I had not heard
of Seldom Seen until then ... Selina's horse was not a pony ... but he
was about 15.0HH or 15.2HH at the very most.

My personal horse hero is the great Selle Francais stallion, Quickstar.
It is published he was anywhere from 159 - 162 cm in height. I choose
to believe the 159 cm ...

www.studukeuro.com/horse-details.aspx?Horse=Quick20Star&HorsePky=91

Role models, I believe, can be good for any sport !

Yours in sport,

Lynn

[cuatx55]

I have a CMK/polish (american bred, Kellogg) horse too, and this doesn't suprise me one bit, they can do dressage and do it well. If you get a nicely bred horse with good manners the sky is the limit!

the RIDER has to really "keep up with them" and approach training very carefully mentally and physically. the do require quite a bit of "mental babysitting" but in the end this really helps in the dressage world. Its so nice to ride a sensitive, forward, smart, flashy horse. Bonus-trail riding too!

Quick silver bay shows the "very round" look of many bask horses but I think the breeding is shifting to a more balanced horse with a lower hip (as seen in many Polish Alladin/Alladabaskin/ZZ Alladakin horses-they also have a lighter shoulder).

He is very nice, though he shows the common "rooting" and getting heavy in the hand that many get. They have to carry themselves, not be supported by the rider, and not breaking at the 3rd vertabrae (so common! So easy to do!) Nevertheless, beautiful rider and I wish them well.

I plan to get another arab and half arab, they learn fast, are a good size, and increase in value quite quickly/easily in the right training program. For the budget-minded rider there are a lot of places to shop outside the dressage world and create a dressage horse.

[lesyl]

That was very fun for me the non-dressage hunter/jumper person to watch. I learned a great deal about what my sitting trot lacks. Thanks for posting.

[slc2]

A larger horse is not less sensitive or aware of weight shifts of the rider. Angel is incorrect there.

The horse is always affected by loss of stability in motion, of the rider.

[cuatx55]

after riding many breeds, I do believe arabs in general do not hide rider mistakes. everything comes to the forefront. They are harder to get over the back and into the hand, which is why they do not seem at first glance like "dressage horses". they also tend to not look like good movers at liberty/on longe, but in side reins and with a good rider they seem to open the shoulder, swing the back, and start to look like good movers.

[WhatzUp]

...

A larger horse is not less sensitive or aware of weight shifts of the rider. Angel is incorrect there.

The horse is always affected by loss of stability in motion, of the rider.

My point above exactly.

~ now back to jumperland ...

Yours in sport,

Lynn

[slc2]

"It's just physics", as a bnt told me a little while ago. It's just plain old physics. You can run but you can't hide - LOL. The physics on a big horse are the same as the physics on a little horse.

[luckles]

Not a big Arab fan, but this one is one of the best I've seen. Congrats!

[bort84]

A larger horse is not less sensitive or aware of weight shifts of the rider. Angel is incorrect there.

The horse is always affected by loss of stability in motion, of the rider.

I agree that all horses are affected by a loss of stability or balance of the rider and that big horses are not inherently less sensitive than smaller ones. However, on a smaller horse, I think they are often more affected by slight movements of a rider. This isn't to say that's a good or bad thing because that totally depends on the rider. But I do think a rider with balance issues will often have more trouble on a smaller horse. I think some of this is just the way a smaller horse feels to a rider (they do often feel like they can get out from under you more easily).

I'm not saying big horses are always less sensitive or less aware of weight shifts, but I think smaller horses can be more noticeably affected by rider balance issues (partially because they are smaller and partially because the rider can often feel less secure on a smaller horse.)

There is likely at least a bit of relation to how much a rider's balance affects the horse and size. If you have a 14.1 hand 800-900lb horse compared to a 17.3 hand 1200-1300lb horse, there probably is some difference in the way a rider's weight and balance affect the horse.

This is not true 100% of the time, but in my experience, smaller horses do often feel more affected by weight/balance shifts than larger horses. Again, some of this is likely due to the rider's perception rather than the horse's actual response, but I wouldn't say that a horse's size has absolutely no relation to the degree that a rider's weight shift alters the horse's movement and balance.

[Ambrey]

"It's just physics", as a bnt told me a little while ago. It's just plain old physics. You can run but you can't hide - LOL. The physics on a big horse are the same as the physics on a little horse.

Well... F=MA would indicate that mass has something to do with the reaction a horse would have to any forces inflicted on it by a rider

[class]

A larger horse is not less sensitive or aware of weight shifts of the rider. Angel is incorrect there.

The horse is always affected by loss of stability in motion, of the rider.

angel never said anything about sensitivity, she was talking about affecting. but she's obviously totally wrong, which explains why when i swing from side to side on a canoe it has the same effect on the boat as when i swing from side to side on a cruise ship... ? i almost tipped a whole cruise ship over one time when i leaned over the side of it, boy were those people pissed.

[cuatx55]

arabs are much less forgiving and more sensitive of screw ups and imbalances in the rider. Not sure if its the size, intelligence, or personality (or all of them). you can't fake it on an arab.
I've ridden a lot of smaller non-arabs and this didn't seem to be the case then, but as a rider I was less in tune with the reactions of the horse.