Now THIS is an Arab dressage horse!

[imjustjoking22]

I've watched this one before, he goes so beautifully! Real proof of the influence of the arab on the modern warmblood, I think

[Sakura]

Well now, if I'd have thought that folk might think I was an oldbag by having oldbag as username, I would have definitely called myself oldbag.

If Conrad Schleezegob really liked Arabs for dressage as much as he implies wouldn't he be encouraging all his potential international pupils to ride them instead of top quality warmbloods?

He's earning a LOT of money training diplomatically. But learn to read between the lines if you want the truth.

I have nothing against Arabs, some of them move very well and have lovely temperaments. But a good Arab will always be beaten by a good well-ridden warmblood.

He likes the horse, get over it.

And as for your last statement... Let me introduce you to OKW Entrigue+++...

from his web page:

At the Pebble Beach Dressage Show in California, he won Intermadiate 1 over the Warmbloods, winning the Perpetual Trophy, a first for an Arabian in the shows 54-year history.

http://www.oakwerth.com/okw_entrigue.asp

How do you like your crow... BBQed or stewed?

[Cold Spring Farm]

I doubt you will hear many who go out and encourage their "international pupils" to buy Arabs. There is not yet much consistency in the breeding of Arabians for sport, and since the breeding of Arabians follows a completely different model than warmbloods, I doubt there will ever be as much consistency in the end product.

However -- when you make the conclusion that Schumacher's statements are only valid if he goes out and recommends Arabs to his "international" students rather misses the point.

I daresay that there are few international level riders on this board. I'm guessing it's a pretty low percentage. And, there are plenty of us "old bags" who, much as we would love to have the ability to ride a Sir Donnerhall (one of my personal favorites!) or a Ravel, probably will never get to that point in our riding. If the opportunity somehow magically presented itself, I am pretty certain that it would not be a pleasant experience for either party involved.

When I saw this Arab stallion, what I saw was a horse that I thought "Geesh, I would LOVE to ride him!" And he gave me the feeling that I probably could. He's a lovely, talented, real-world horse who, as Mr. Schumacher noted, tried really hard, had a lovely tempo and was just even and steady. He just struck me as a lovely, kind horse who put the effort in and had the talent to go far. (He's also blessed with a very gifted rider!)

So, to make it into an argument that the horse really isn't that good because he will probably never make a team, or because he is not as talented as the best dressage warmbloods, is really a moot point. Most riders are never going to make a team....so it's a draw.

He just looks like an exceptional horse suited for real world riders.

[SillyHorse]

He just looks like an exceptional horse suited for real world riders.

And also for Conrad Schleezegob.

[dalpal]

He likes the horse, get over it.

And as for your last statement... Let me introduce you to OKW Entrigue+++...
from his web page:
http://www.oakwerth.com/okw_entrigue.asp

How do you like your crow... BBQed or stewed?

This is another arabian stallion that I absolutley LOVE.

[anchorsaway]

He likes the horse, get over it.

And as for your last statement... Let me introduce you to OKW Entrigue+++...

from his web page:
http://www.oakwerth.com/okw_entrigue.asp

How do you like your crow... BBQed or stewed?

Oh man, he is some sort of gorgeous!!

[Foxtrot's]

I'm sorry, Oldbag - you started off on the wrong foot with me and then resorting to an infantile name calling of a very well respected clinician just makes it worse - calling him Conrad Schleezegob is about Grade 3 level mentality.

I was raised by a desert Arab from Egypt (in Kenya), not so fancy, no idea of her lineage, but what a joy she was.

[staceyk]

thanks for the video

Thanks to the OP and esp. to the owner/rider for posting this lovely video. He's impressive in many ways -- the fluidity! -- but I'm struck by his work ethic and concentration. I appreciate being able to view and discuss horses of all breeds competing in dressage. It doesn't happen unless folks share their footage!

Stacey

[bthatasitmay]

I have read this thread with interest as I have the opportunity to ride a lovely arab gelding a couple of times a week who is leased by a friend and is loved by his owner. I own two warmbloods, one semi retired and a younger chestnut mare. The mare is wonderful but alpha and a huge challenge to ride. We have great rides but it is always a discussion. The arab gelding is a joy to ride. I like riding him after riding my mare so I can realize I am capable. His stride and rhythm matches the mare (she is 16.2 and he is maybe 15 H) and she is a big mover. He tries hard and is willing to learn. No arguments, he just tries. I can trust him and would show him over the mare at this point. Even though the mare is training advanced I can not count on her reliability in the show ring. I am not trying for the Olympics, not in my budget, but my standards are that high and there is no reason not to ride that well. It is the quality of the ride not the size of the horse.
Wonderful horse, Lindsay.

[contesstant]

Hello everyone!

Someone clued me in on this little blog about my little Quickie....known as my 'boyfriend' by those in the barn.

We really appreciate all the response on our little man. I have been blessed enough to ride very lovely warmbloods at the National and International levels. I am newer to the arabian breed and Quickie is one of the most sweetest, hard working horses I have had in my training program.

I thank you for all of your input and he is a little hero in my eyes. Conrad has taught me since I was 14 and I am now 26. He truely loves this guy and has told me that the FEI will show him off the most.

After this clinic, he was selected to be the second level horse in the Conrad Schumacher Symposium....in Seattle, Wa. This video will be released to the public in Oct. Conrad said this was the first Arabian to ever be placed in one of his Symposiums and that he would take him home with him if he could! He also reminded the crowd that Arabians were the foundation breed to make all of the top Dressage horses.

Now, this is being written by a warmblood 'former' snob, but now I am breeding him to an imported Dutch mare and cannot wait to see the outcome....the mare won her inspection as a 4 yr. old with high marks!!
Quickie is a wonderful horse...and we are so excited to be a part of his ever growing success! He may be the smallest in my barn, but has the biggest heart.

Watch for us next yr.....we hope to do the Developing Young Horse Championships....which is the National USDF top 12 horses at PSG between the ages of 7 and 9.

Wish us Luck......and Team Quickie says Thank you!!!


Kind Regards,

Lindsey Anderson
www.lindseyandersondressage.com

The two of you are a beautiful pair! I hope you plan to show him at the Arabian Sport Horse Nationals this year. I won't be making it as the horse I would have taken, an Aul Magic son, passed away. But I believe my mom will be there with Crista Lambert. I know she'd love to watch you and your "boyfriend" do your thing!

I noticed that his paternal grandsire is BA Bey Elation. Bey Elation has produced many national champions in all disciplines.

[camohn]

When I was looking for an Arab to breed my small/refined WB mare to a few years back all but one of my short list ended up being Bey lines.

[Dressage by Accident]

Had to jump in (and register/join first) and put my $0.02 in here...

We will certainly be cheering Quickie on as he is family.

My dressage partner is also Varian on top (by Sundance Kid V, who is also a Huckleberry Bey grandson) and out of a Khemosabi daughter.

Hmmm... bloodlines do tell, don't they?

A friend sent me the link to Quickie's ride with Conrad Schumacher and it brought tears to my eyes.

"Kid" was supposed to be my endurance partner - my doctor advised me to steer clear of jumping big fences, that I wouldn't bounce well at 40 . Then a California junior dressage star had a ride on my oh-so-green horse, saw his potential, and life changed. A bunch.

I can only hope that I can do him justice (and stop riding hunt seat, as my trainer yells at me!).

Would I love a big WB? You bet - I'm 5'8" and used to BIG horses.

But I don't think I'll ever - even with a lottery win - have a horse that's more athlethic, more willing, with better gaits, and with a better mind for dressage.

Cheers again to Lindsey and Quickie!

Old to horses, new to dressage, and new here...

Karen

[WhatzUp]

...

Had to jump in (and register/join first) and put my $0.02 in here...

We will certainly be cheering Quickie on as he is family.

My dressage partner is also Varian on top (by Sundance Kid V, who is also a Huckleberry Bey grandson) and out of a Khemosabi daughter.

Hmmm... bloodlines do tell, don't they?

A friend sent me the link to Quickie's ride with Conrad Schumacher and it brought tears to my eyes.

"Kid" was supposed to be my endurance partner - my doctor advised me to steer clear of jumping big fences, that I wouldn't bounce well at 40 . Then a California junior dressage star had a ride on my oh-so-green horse, saw his potential, and life changed. A bunch.

I can only hope that I can do him justice (and stop riding hunt seat, as my trainer yells at me!).

Would I love a big WB? You bet - I'm 5'8" and used to BIG horses.

But I don't think I'll ever - even with a lottery win - have a horse that's more athlethic, more willing, with better gaits, and with a better mind for dressage.

Cheers again to Lindsey and Quickie!

Old to horses, new to dressage, and new here...

Karen

Hello and welcome to COTH !

I am curious about what you wrote, why would you be
"jumping big fences" in endurance ? I know nothing
about endurance, really, but I did not think they did
any over fences work on course.

Yours in sport,

Lynn

[Dressage by Accident]

I am curious about what you wrote, why would you be
"jumping big fences" in endurance ? I know nothing
about endurance, really, but I did not think they did
any over fences work on course.

Pardon the confusion... story in a nutsell:

I used to jump.

Took ten years to build a business and I stopped riding.

Went to see my doctor to see if I was fit to ride before horse shopping. That's when I was told to quit the fences ("you won't bounce so well at 40").

Wanted something high-adenalin, and endurance looked like great fun - and affordable.

And now the "endurance" Arabian is in dressage training

And so am I.

Thanks so much for the welcome!

Karen

[JLR1]

It is the quality of the ride not the size of the horse.

Absolutely correct!

[quietann]

Well you all know I love small, off breed sporthorses.

I don't think one can make a blanket statement about how Arabians or Morgans or any other "off breed" are bred. The goals of a "sport breeder" are different than those of a breeder who's headed for the traditional Class A breed show circuit. One wants a horse who's built for sport but also retains excellent breed type. There's enough diversity in the bloodlines that breeders can get it -- e.g. with Arabs, the Bey/Khemo lines, some Polish, Crabbet/CMK make a lot of nice sport horses, and in Morgans, Brunk, UVM, working Western lines etc. do nicely. These horses are NOT WBs and are not meant to be, but they have their own advantages, often in terms of soundness, "heart", and smarts, and, for those of us who don't bounce so well anymore, a smaller size.

And thanks to everyone who reminds us that very few of us are going to get to the upper levels or be "international caliber" riders. The range of horses suitable for lower levels is much larger, and the "off breeds" are usually less expensive to buy as well.

[angel]

I think part of the reason that we don't see more Arabians in dressage is this aura over needing to have something LARGE. There are many Arabians bred that are suitable for dressage, but the money for Arabians is still English pleasure. Why ride something for just a ribbon and glory, when you can ride something that is Breeder's Sweepstakes nominated for a possible win bringing MONEY and glory!

Actually, throught the years, there have been a few breeders who have exceled in the Arabian sportshorse breeding. Gail Hoff-Carmona (Los Alamos Dressage) comes quickly to mind. She originally had Arabians, which she successfully crossed with Swedish Warmbloods. These few did exceptionally well. It has been awhile since I have attended any Arabian shows, but you are seeing more and more crossover between Show Hack, Hunter, and Dressage classes, which spill over into the open dressage shows in areas where Arabian shows are not big enough to offer dressage classes.

[Dazednconfused]

I am blown away by the beautiful pair this horse and rider make!

I was SO excited, as well, to hear more about his breeding. I have a Crabbet Arabian mare...On her sire's side is Huckleberry Bey and Bay El Bey, and on her Dam's side there is Cognac and Bask, and when I bought her I only bought her because she is just a sweetheart and amazingly giving and generous when I ride her.

She has unbelievable movement and is such a hardworker and never says No, ever. This mare would work and work and work for me if I asked her to. Here is a picture of her, just of me goofing around this past summer (note the clothing! hehe)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...88&id=13002359



I'm hoping we can have some fun together and get out and do some showing soon!

Cognac and Bask are actually Polish. Bay el Bey is out of a pure polish mare

I'd like to point out (and I know I must sound like a broken record here) - but the flatness of a croup or tailset has really very little to do with the biomechanical ability of the horse to get underneath himself and not leave the hocks behind him. This flat croup thing is quite separate from the hip and hock angles. A horse can have a very flat croup but a correctly-conformed hip angle (from ilium to femur to tibia), or an extremely sloped or rounded hindquarter that is not well conformed.

http://www.wescofarms.com/files/skeleton_web.jpg

Now, of course the trouble is that in that quest to breed for a "relatively horizontal croup", some breeders have forgotten that it cannot be at the expense of a correct hip angle, even to the point of having an uptilted pelvis (which is a problem not only for athleticism but also in particular broodmares). But before you write off the silly arabian with the flat croup, take good note of his hip angle.

Finally, do remember that the breed standard calls for a "relatively horizontal croup", and a high tailset. Forgoing these important (enough so to include in the standard!) traits is to me, a big deal. It's trying to make the breed into something it should not/cannot be. Sort of like selectively breeding for shorter ears on a basset hound, or less guarding ability in a rottweiler. Note that the horses posted in this thread I don't find to be poor examples of breed type at all (I consider most posted so far to be quite typey!), this is only in reference to some comments made with regards to particular traits...

[thought]

sorry...

I kind of agree with oldbag. He's pretty enough, and obviously technically correct (ie can perform the movements asked), but there's something almost pacey in his trot--he moves side to side rather than forward. It might be that he is rather long. Ah well, I'm all for 'non-traditional' breeds in dressage, because that's what the discipline is about--producing horses that move correctly--and there are so many drafts, arabs, etc. that perform at the upper levels very well (and I'll disagree with oldbag here--they can outperform the traditional warmblood). But I think it can be unfair to the horse to paint it as something it is not, and ask it to do something that is more physically demanding than its conformation will allow.

[Dazednconfused]

I kind of agree with oldbag. He's pretty enough, and obviously technically correct (ie can perform the movements asked), but there's something almost pacey in his trot--he moves side to side rather than forward. It might be that he is rather long. Ah well, I'm all for 'non-traditional' breeds in dressage, because that's what the discipline is about--producing horses that move correctly--and there are so many drafts, arabs, etc. that perform at the upper levels very well (and I'll disagree with oldbag here--they can outperform the traditional warmblood). But I think it can be unfair to the horse to paint it as something it is not, and ask it to do something that is more physically demanding than its conformation will allow.

The video appeared smooshed to me (wrong aspect ratio for youtube perhaps?) Can make a horse look very long in that way even if they are definitely not.