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Why is this so hard? How long did it take you to find THE HORSE?

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  • #41
    Originally posted by SisterToSoreFoot View Post

    If we're looking at nontraditional, think about a Standardbred. Many of the Standardbreds I've known have been slick and good-looking and all of them had great, willing temperments and a been there-done-that ammy-friendly attitude. A few of them could pass for WBs or TBs. This guy is cute, sounds quiet, and I bet you could get him going in dressage pretty easily. Don't know the horse personally but just an example...maybe look for "quiet" "young" and "sound" and work on the dressage training once he/she appears...a good temperment is better than a dicey temperment with more training for this buyer, it sounds like
    I saw that one, too! He is super cute! I'm having a HECK of a hard time finding a horse myself ... we've travelled all over the eastern US to see horses of many different price ranges. I finally got fed up with seeing more expensive horses misrepresented and the training on them not up to my standards (and not something I was willing to just deal with and retrain myself for that price) and am now looking at youngsters who are quiet and just started. I'm much happier! So hopefully someday I will find one.

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    • #42
      If she will consider an American Saddlebred, please PM me...there are folks around the country who have fabulous prospects that they just do not market well. They do not always speak "sport horse".
      When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
      www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
      http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/

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      • #43
        This sounds like my search for a perfect Dressage horse. It took me just about a year to find my horse. I am pleased with what I found but I was so frustrated to beyond believe. I never knew how dishonest people are or how much they don't know until I started looking for my second horse. It was much easier to find a nice TB than a good WB. I wanted a horse that was at least 3rd level or above and not older than 12 years old and boy that was a hard one. I even added more money to my budget and that didn't help.

        The way I found my WB is purely by accident. I went to look at two horses about 2 hours away from my house and basically told my husband that if I don't find one that day I am going to take a break and let the horse find me. While I was given a tour of the barn I noticed a horse in the paddock. We looked at each other and right away I thought there was something about that horse. I asked the lady about him and she said he was out of my price range and happened to be for sale. They have tried to sell this horse for almost as long as I was looking to buy one. For some reason he didn't do well with other riders who were much better riders than I was at the time. This horse either likes you or he doesn’t. After riding one of her horses I asked to see this guy and I fell in love with him before I even got on him. I had the best ride on him and did a lot of what he knows. The barn owner was surprised to see me do so well with the horse. Needless to say I own him now and he came to me as a solid 4th level Dressage horse. It’s been 3 years now and I could not have found a better dressage horse. Granted he has an attitude at times but that doesn’t bother me at all I find it actually entertaining.

        Hope you find the horse as I know it’s very frustrating looking for an upper level Dressage horse.

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        • #44
          Here's my .02

          People who are looking for a 100% sound, very quiet horse that has solid training beyond training or first level are looking for characteristics that are often mutually exclusive.

          If the horse vets 100% sound, it is often very young. Very young horses are not often very quiet.

          If the horse vets 100% sound, it often hasn't got confirmed training at the level you are looking for. It just doesn't have enough mileage on it.

          If the horse is very quiet, it often is not quick enough off the aids or athletic enough to get beyond training level.

          When you are looking for characteristics that don't often come in the same package, and, oh by the way, everyone else is looking for the same thing, you can be sure that the price will be top dollar, if and when you do find what you are looking for.
          "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller

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          • #45
            Beautifully and succinctly put, EH. Bravo.
            In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
            A life lived by example, done too soon.
            www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

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            • #46
              Leasing?

              What about leasing a horse? I would bet that there are about 10-20x more people willing to lease rather than sell their horses. It would help out the owner of the Second level horse who does not want to sell, but may need help with the boarding costs. It would also be a great opportunity for the leasor, who has the opportunity to ride a high quality horse at essentially no cost and no risk?.

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              • #47
                a great thing to remember. as you can get two out of the three of

                fast, good and inexpensive

                your can also get two out of the three of

                sound, quiet and schooled!

                I went with sound (ottb) and after 7 years have schooled and we are approaching quiet (not really, I am becoming a better rider!)
                A man must love a thing very much if he not only practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practices it without any hope of doing it well.--G. K. Chesterton

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                • #48
                  1. It didn't take me long at all (few months of videos) but I had been lurking on equinesite, dreamhorse and etc.. for years. After many years of riding other peoples horses, working at barns and lurking, I knew exactly what I wanted. Discovered quickly that what I wanted and could afford didn't mesh. So I kept an open mind and ended up with an unstarted 2 yo gelding and waited to ride. 5 years later he's a blast to ride and gets better with every year.
                  2. Although he can be used for competiton that wasn't the focus of my search. Finding a horse that was well mannered, showed a willingness to learn, apptitude for dressage, tolerant, sweet, etc... were.
                  3. I waited my whole life for my first horse. If you don't find exactly what you are looking for than ask yourself can this horse be molded into my dream horse. I limited my search to geldings within a certain age range and geography. Too many choices led to much confusion. Like a kid in a candy store. Keep an open mind, Be patient and flexible. Don't let color and etc bias your opinion. Your dream horse is out there. Good luck.
                  Last edited by yankeeclipper; Jun. 6, 2009, 08:51 PM.
                  \"You have two choices when a defining moment comes along - you can either define the moment, or let the moment define you.\" Tin Cup

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                  • #49
                    I wonder if part of it isn't people being obsessed with a perfect vet check?. I think people are just unrealistic in this regards and it is important to figure out what is and what is not a REAL problem in terms of vet checks.
                    www.svhanoverians.com

                    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.

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                    • #50
                      I wonder about the whole vet check thing, too... and what the backlash of all this fascination with clean x-rays has been.

                      A while back, I had a horse in for training. Really neat guy, I enjoyed him a lot. When the owner had to sell off all her horses, I considered purchasing him. I knew he had some soundness issues - he'd come in that way, and though careful management and a meticulously planned workout schedule helped him considerably, they were still there. I'd had him for a couple of years at that point, though, and wasn't really bothered by that for how I intended to use him. I did want to know the extent of the situation, so I took him to a nearby equine hospital for x-rays. They were set up for digital radiographs, so we got a lot of great pictures of his "issues," discussed continuing management, and decided that there wasn't any reason he couldn't do well with what I wanted as long as we were reasonably diligent. The vet did tell me he likely wouldn't be a top dressage performer and that pursuing a career beyond Training and First Level wouldn't necessarily be wise, but since I wanted him for breed shows and a possible training level mount for the novices, I didn't mind.

                      Ultimately, I wasn't able to work out a contract with the owner, so the sale fell through. Owner wanted him to be marketed as a dressage prospect, so she moved him to a dressage trainer in the area on consignment. That particular dressage trainer had a reputation for selling only horses with clean x-rays, so I was curious to see how that went.

                      Horse sold quickly to a woman in another state. I figured all was well... until I got a call out of the blue from her several months later. Horse was having soundness issues, and since I'd had him for a few years, she was hoping I might have some insight. In the course of the conversation, I discovered that she'd had extensive x-rays taken of this horse. At the same equine hospital as I did. By the same vet.

                      And they were completely clean.

                      I can't imagine how they got clean x-rays off this horse (just over two weeks after I had them taken, no less). The x-rays I got were most definitely not clean, and nothing on them was particularly hard to find. New owner was stunned to hear what my x-rays showed (so it wasn't as though her PPE turned up the same things but, like me, she accepted them). I was shocked to hear what hers didn't show.

                      Go figure.

                      I know she adores the horse. Things just haven't gone exactly as she hoped.

                      Meanwhile, though, I'm wondering... has the obsession with "clean x-rays" led to a lot of instances like this?

                      And with the advances in radiography that allow so many more things to be seen than were before... how many riding-age horses who have been in regular work are really going to x-ray completely clean?

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        And with the advances in radiography that allow so many more things to be seen than were before... how many riding-age horses who have been in regular work are really going to x-ray completely clean

                        Very, very few. And yet most buyers expect this and even if the vet finds usual stuff they still want to use it to dicker with the price. I dunno, I haven't had much experience with it but I have just started looking for an FEI/ FEI prospect and even though I have a fairly high budget, I don't expect perfect xrays, thats forsure.
                        www.svhanoverians.com

                        "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          In my own case, the horse that didn't pass the vet check was great under saddle, or on the lunge with encouragement. We didn't even get to xrays. The kicker was that when he walked on his own, or was lunged without any encouragement he dragged one hind foot. I hadn't noticed it, but that particular toe was obviously worn (well obvious once the vet pointed it out).

                          Since he was 4 years old and was priced over $35K, and the vet couldn't say definitively what the cause was (she did speculate that it was his stifle as flexions didn't exacerbate it, or that it could have been something that would resolve with increased strength on that side) I decided to pass. I don't negotiate price after a vet check. Either the horse "passes" for me or they don't.

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                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Donella View Post
                            And with the advances in radiography that allow so many more things to be seen than were before... how many riding-age horses who have been in regular work are really going to x-ray completely clean

                            Very, very few. And yet most buyers expect this and even if the vet finds usual stuff they still want to use it to dicker with the price.
                            I think it is the first or second horse buyer that is fussy like that. All people experienced in having PPE's done know that that something will come up.

                            On another note, I think I know now why sellers exaggerate, withhold information, or downright lie about the horses they have for sale. It is because if you tell the truth, people will write the horse off immediately. Haven't you noticed that every single horse for sale is said to have a good temperament, be a good mover, etc. etc. I have yet to see any ads that talk about any training issues a horse might have. And let's face it, they all have their quirks and issues.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              I think it's not just first time buyers. I was really squeamy about xrays when looking for a new horse after mine was retired by an OCD some time after the horse was bought. It's hard to buy a horse infrequently and behave like an experienced, skilled pro, and evaluate all the information perfectly. People learn over many years and many purchases how to select a pre purchase vet, how to evaluate the information provided by the vet, etc.

                              I think as frustrating and annoying as selling horses is, and as goofy and time wasting as potential buyers can be, sellers need to cut inexperienced amateurs some slack. No, they don't always make the same decision the seller would or a pro would. That's how things go. No matter what technology, images, vet exams we have, selling horses will ALWAYS entail a certain amount of stress and frustration. It just isn't that easy to sell horses quickly and for the best prices. And I think most sellers would rather sell a horse to someone who's sure they want it, than have all sorts of nastiness ensue after the sale....that is just the worst thing for a seller as the consquences and gossip about it can reverberate for years. It's better for customers to be sure and happy, and with all the information at hand, put the burden of the decision on the buyer.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Mine just kind of fell into my lap, to be honest. I was riding him for a friend of my family's and we decided to buy him. I'd lost my best friend and was NOT interested in another horse but this one weaseled his way into my heart

                                Is he as fancy as something I could've found if I went searching? Nope. But his heart sure makes up for that. I wouldn't trade him for the world.

                                To get to the jist of it-
                                I think your friend needs to suck it up and take a good, hard, honest look at TB's(which is what my redhead is). There's already been a lot of recommendations for TB's here already. There are a lot of very very very very nice ones out there and as 'saintly' or 'bombproof' as your everyday-next-door QH. I seem to board at TB central and everyone of ours (well maybe excluding our resident jumper) are mistaken for warmbloods.
                                Just my $0.02.
                                Good luck to your friend in her search.
                                Last edited by anchorsaway; Jun. 7, 2009, 05:14 PM.
                                I know now, the place that I was trying to reach, was you, right here in front of me

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by slc2 View Post
                                  And I think most sellers would rather sell a horse to someone who's sure they want it, than have all sorts of nastiness ensue after the sale....that is just the worst thing for a seller as the consquences and gossip about it can reverberate for years. It's better for customers to be sure and happy, and with all the information at hand, put the burden of the decision on the buyer.
                                  Absolutely! Selling is stressful enough without adding in having to wonder if it is a good match.

                                  One of the "biggest" issues, IMO, in selling horses is that most buyers just assume that there is something "wrong" with every horse or they wouldn't be for sale. Even though we are "obviously" breeders, I can't tell you how many times we've been asked, "why is he for sale?"

                                  Or that there is something "wrong" if the price isn't high enough. "Why is he so cheap? Is he lame?" Or rank, or ugly, and so on

                                  But I also sympathize with buyers. Recently I visited with a gal who wanted to know how often a gelding we had for sale had had his hocks injected. Whoa, he is only 6! Never. In fact there has never been any horses on this farm who have had their hocks (or any joints) injected. It was very clear that she had been led to believe that "all" WBs had to have their hocks injected. Wow, just wow.
                                  Patty
                                  www.rivervalefarm.com
                                  Follow us on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pages/River...ref=ts&fref=ts

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                                  • #57
                                    One of the "biggest" issues, IMO, in selling horses is that most buyers just assume that there is something "wrong" with every horse or they wouldn't be for sale.
                                    Because there usual is. It may not be a soundness or behavior issue, but it could be a performance issue. The exception to this would be young horses. In that case, if they are cheap, it is because the breeder/owner does not think that are worth more, for whatever reason, but probably talent related. These days, most owners and breeders know a nice horse when they see one. Gone are the days of seeing a 'Snowman' in the backyard field.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by ToN Farm View Post
                                      Because there usual is. It may not be a soundness or behavior issue, but it could be a performance issue. The exception to this would be young horses. In that case, if they are cheap, it is because the breeder/owner does not think that are worth more, for whatever reason, but probably talent related. These days, most owners and breeders know a nice horse when they see one. Gone are the days of seeing a 'Snowman' in the backyard field.
                                      Or it could be that the breeder has expenses to pay .
                                      Patty
                                      www.rivervalefarm.com
                                      Follow us on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pages/River...ref=ts&fref=ts

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        TTP, I suspect the reason your friend is having such a hard time finding a horse is that she wants a young horse that is bombproof.

                                        Although people will come out of the woodwork to write about their horse who was born mostly bombproof (and I own one, too, so I understand they do exist!) for the most part, YOUNG and BOMBPROOF do not go together. Add on a show record... cannot be had unless you have got A LOT of money to spend.

                                        I sell horses and I feel that very, very few of the horses I have handled in all these years were bombproof. My daughters pony is truly bombproof, from what I have seen this last year.

                                        Our small junior is just about bombproof and when he does spook it is nothiong. But he's not bombproof. I also suspect that if someone timid got on him he might become more spooky initially, particularly if they were not willing to "drive the car" so to speak. He is submissive/confident and wants to be told what to do. He has always been told what to do. He would probably go from 99% bombproof to 80% bombproof in 5 minutes if someone got on him who would notor did not tell him what to do. He'd be confused and since he's not dominant he would not take over. The reason I am telling you this is, to point out that not everyone understands why their horse is quiet. A lot of people think that is just how their horse is.... then you put someone else on them and SURPRISE! Yes, people do misrepresent horses. But I think a lot of times people really do think their horse is very quiet and relaxed and it's because they have a good working relationship w/them. Put someone else up there and it might be different.

                                        Not looking at TB's is just silly, IMO. Some of the quietest, most talented horses I have ever known were TB's. She would be much better served to figure out what type of ride is ideal for her and then look for that type and not rule out any breeds. My QH is hotter than Georgia asphalt and moves like a high level sporthorse. He's forward and wants the rider to be really, really quiet while he bounces around. If someone were using breed as a criteria in buying and he were for sale by a dishonest person they could get really hurt on him in a matter of seconds. She needs to know what she prefers - to kick, or to steady? To pat and soothe or to push on?

                                        Last, where is her trainer in all this? Forgive me if you said so, but I didn't read all the responses, I still have two pastures to mow.. moving on now..
                                        "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                                        ---
                                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          I found mine in a backyard via AgDirect ads. I was originally looking for something big, gelded and brown but instead found small, chestnut and mare.

                                          That was over six years ago, and we are doing super. I love her to death.

                                          I believe great horses are karmic, they come in our lives when we need them the most.
                                          Kelly
                                          It is rare to see a rider who is truly passionate about the horse and his training, taking a profound interest in dressage with self-abnegation, and making this extraordinarily subtle work one of the dominant motivations of his life.\"

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