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Why is this so hard? How long did it take you to find THE HORSE?

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  • #21
    I think one has to be realistic. The budget has to be near what horses sell for. I need to write a book called 'That Ain't A Lot to Pay For a Horse Like That'.

    LOL.

    Every time I have decided to just suck it up and pay what the type of horse I want is going for, I have 'found a horse' in about 2 weeks. What messes us up is bargain hunting.

    There's also the matter of xrays and prepurchase exams, and figuring out how perfect it has to be. But that would need a couple more books.

    A lot of people expect way too much when they shop. They may not need that much. And I think a lot of times people aren't really ready to buy for various reasons.
    Last edited by slc2; Jun. 3, 2009, 08:12 AM.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by Donkey View Post
      1. 7 months, 4 failed vet checks
      I am at 7 months and 2 failed vet checks. I am not quite at the "will fall in love with any horse" stage yet, but close. I know this because the last horse I tried was absolutely perfect in every single way - my absolute dream horse, literally, except I didn't fall in love with him. We didn't "click" under saddle. He had a great temperament in that he wasn't spooky, didn't buck, bolt, misbehave, but he wasn't the willing, compliant, get along with ME type. We just didn't work well together. We were at odds every time I gave him an aid. I passed. I don't want a horse that I am going to be at odds with, I want a partner. Would we have worked it out?? Maybe, but who knows. Not worth risking that kind of money to find out. So, back to square one. The search continues. I won't compromise my standards of what I am looking for, but the longer it takes me to find what I am looking for, the more money I save, and the bigger my budget. I have nearly doubled the amount I have to spend on a horse at this point. I have also vastly expanded how far I am willing to travel to find a horse. So I have compromised on certain things in my horse search, but not the important things!!

      ~Shelly~
      http://community.webshots.com/user/smithereens_86
      http://www.youtube.com/user/smithereens86

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      • #23
        Perhaps opening up her range. My Dutch mare is 15.1 1/2 hands - moves like she's 17 hands. People swear she's 16 hands.

        If I were to advertise her - even at 15.2 hands - I'd probably have very little response, versus when I take her to shows people watch with their mouths hanging open (drool).

        She takes up my leg (I'm 5'6") as well as my Swedish mare who is 16.2 1/2 hands.

        So opening up height requirements may be the way to go, and perhaps others (as you so rightly did not specify what she's looking for).

        Has she advertised on Warmbloods 4 sale? They have a (free) wanted section and she can state - "must be able to back up show record" or something like that.

        Best of luck to both of you.
        Last edited by Valentina_32926; Jun. 3, 2009, 09:37 AM. Reason: typo
        Now in Kentucky

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by ToN Farm View Post
          I'm guessing it is a budget issue. When ewarmbloods was up and running, there were always wanted ads on there for horses and the budgets were ridiculously low. People wanted not older than 10, quiet, easy to ride, sound, 16.1+, show record, trained to 2nd+, etc. etc. For that, they had some budget like 15k.

          Even for a 2nd level horse that is 10, it is going to have a big tag if it is competitive, sound, and easy. Start adding other qualifications, and it gets harder and harder.

          There have been times in my life that I had a huge budget, and still couldn't find what I wanted, and my wants weren't that outlandish. Just finding a horse that will vet out to your satisfaction is a feat in itself.
          I have to say I agree with this too - plus poster usually wants within 100 miles of zip code 12345....
          Now in Kentucky

          Comment


          • #25
            I'm at 1 year plus looking. One failed vet check, two horses sold before I could get back for a second ride (I was called back on both when they failed their vet checks!). Flew from S. Cal to N. Cal to look at 6 horses, liked 2 of them, seller raised price on both ~$5K from that advertised and confirmed as asking price the previous week. Only had one horse bolt with me on board so far. Number of horses misrepresented; too many to count. Some very nice horses, but a little too green for me. All in the $30-$45K price range for an amateur friendly horse with 3 good gaits; not looking for a world beater.

            On the up side, this is giving me plenty of time to continue to rehab the tendon tear on my dream horse that also took 1 year plus to find. Also, my horse hunting skills have gotten better and I'm going on far fewer wild goose chases as I've learned how to ask more specific questions and keep asking more directly if I get vague answers.

            Admittedly, I haven't made this a full time job and do take breaks from looking when it seems the market has dried up.

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            • Original Poster

              #26
              Originally posted by Valentina_32926 View Post
              Perhaps opening up her range. My Dutch mare is 15.1 1/2 hands - moves like she's 17 hands. People swear she's 16 hands.

              If I were to advertise her - even at 15.2 hands - I'd probably have very little response, versus when I take her to shows people watch with their mouths hanging open (drool).

              She takes up my leg (I'm 5'6") as well as my Swedish mare who is 16.2 1/2 hands.

              So opening up height requirements may be the way to go, and perhaps others (as you so rightly did not specify what she's looking for).

              Has she advertised on Warmbloods 4 sale? They have a (free) wanted section and she can state - "must be able to back up show record" or something like that.

              Best of luck to both of you.
              Honestly, 15'2" is more what she wants. She did pass on a draught cross mare I really liked (not my $) because she was 17 hands. So (shorter) height hasn't been an issue. My friend is not that tall to start with. I will tell her about the free wanted section on warmbloods for sale.

              My gut feeling is the "saint" horses change hands in the barn and don't end up for sale. I could be wrong.

              I don't see her riding a thoroughbred. I can't get her to ride mine, lol and he's 85% saint (I think she worries about the other 15% of the time). But she will look at QH, etc. Actually one of the horses that totally failed the vet exam was a QH. And she understands that there will be some "jewelry" on the joints of older horses, but this was pretty bad and they wanted a lot of money.

              As far as traveling, she is ready to hop on the plane. We almost went out to CA to look at a horse, but the gal couldn't come up with a USEF number to back up the 70%+ scores the horse had received at all these shows...by the way, scores in the 70's isn't even a requirement! But if a seller brags about something like that, then you would expect they can prove it, or else the buyer starts to wonder what else they've said might not hold up.
              DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

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              • #27
                Originally posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
                My gut feeling is the "saint" horses change hands in the barn and don't end up for sale. I could be wrong.
                I agree 100%. When I was in my jumper barn, the jumpers who were saints and could pack kids around a 4ft course, while helping them out at the same time, were always sold within the barn. And they sold like hot cakes. I know because I bought a couple myself when I still jumped. It was only the horses with somekind of issue, not saying that thats a bad thing always though, that got sold outside of the barn.

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                • #28
                  as in anything, you can have it good, cheap or quickly, but you rarely get all 3 at once.

                  A quality horse in today's market is still going to cost more.
                  There are lots of cheap horses out there, they are usually not the quality you want.
                  If you want it quickly, pay higher price. If you can afford to bide your time, the perfect mount may fall into your lap.

                  it took me exactly 5 minutes to find my perfect horse, my last competition mount and I wasn't even looking for a horse at the time. My coach convinced me to come for a little car drive to a stable where a newly imported gelding was being tried out by a local judge. I watched from the rail for 2 minutes, spent another 2 working out a deal with the owner on condition of riding him to my satisfaction and passing my vet's exam, and he was mine, on reasonable terms, the next day. And the judge riding him didn't really want him- after she got off, she asked if she could take him on a month's trial and the owner said "sorry, just sold him".
                  "The Threat of Internet Ignorance: ... we are witnessing the rise of an age of equestrian disinformation, one where a trusting public can graze on nonsense packaged to look like fact."-LRG-AF

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    It took me two years to find my very special horse. And he is special.

                    I had very specific requirements. MIND, soundness, sufficient size, a certain level of athletic ability, budget.

                    I didn't care if the horse had been ridden or not. Breed was not important.

                    I almost caved on one of the requirements on a couple occasions. I did not. And I am glad I stayed with what I required. I sure did look at a lot of horses.

                    Since I had a size requirement I started asking those with horses a long ways away to send pictures with someone standing next to the horse. And then asked how tall the person was. Amazing how many horses are 16 2 and a 5'6" person TOWERS over them... I now own a measuring stick.

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                    • Original Poster

                      #30
                      Originally posted by CatOnLap View Post
                      as in anything, you can have it good, cheap or quickly, but you rarely get all 3 at once.

                      A quality horse in today's market is still going to cost more.
                      There are lots of cheap horses out there, they are usually not the quality you want.
                      If you want it quickly, pay higher price. If you can afford to bide your time, the perfect mount may fall into your lap.

                      it took me exactly 5 minutes to find my perfect horse, my last competition mount and I wasn't even looking for a horse at the time. My coach convinced me to come for a little car drive to a stable where a newly imported gelding was being tried out by a local judge. I watched from the rail for 2 minutes, spent another 2 working out a deal with the owner on condition of riding him to my satisfaction and passing my vet's exam, and he was mine, on reasonable terms, the next day. And the judge riding him didn't really want him- after she got off, she asked if she could take him on a month's trial and the owner said "sorry, just sold him".
                      Actually, now that you mention it, even though this thread isn't really about me, I found my last TWO horses when I wasn't even looking. I was actually riding the current one for a different friend in her sales video (she needed some over fences footage) and I liked him so much I bought him! Unfortunately, I do understand how no horse is perfect (he's currently lame and also has some bazaar behavioral issues--which is how I could afford him in the first place).

                      I will say most of the horses I've found have been word of mouth or in the barn for some reasone (training, etc.)--I've never bought one off an ad.
                      DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I always cringe when I read the stories about dishonest sellers misrepresenting horses. I mean, whats the point? People are going to figure it out, AND then tell everyone as well!

                        I remember a lady who really liked one of our young horses on video and wanted to buy without seeing the horse "in person". As we were "dealing" she asked how she could be sure that the horse she paid for would be the one we would send her? WHAT ?? Well it would never occur to us to send a different horse . Apparently this had happened to a friend of hers and it took months and many $$$$ to get it straightened out.

                        It is a shame that buyers just assume a seller is not going to be truthful about a horse. IMO that is the biggest problem in our industry. It is so much easier to be honest and truthful. Really.
                        Patty
                        www.rivervalefarm.com
                        Follow us on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pages/River...ref=ts&fref=ts

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Oh Yeah, Been There...Best advice: spread the word through a great trainer

                          I feel for your friend...I've been there. I found both of mine when I wasn't looking. Isn't that always the way?
                          1. Try looking though the local dressage associations and trainers...people who are actual members of USDF/local USDF.
                          2. Consider adoption from TRF (thoroughbred retirement foundation)--I was doing some volunteer work there and found a SOLID training level boy (who had raced) who was returned to TRF and a good citizen too! TRF lets you return them if they don't work out. That's like 100% guarantee!!
                          3. Consider a lease to buy--it seems like (not always) these horses are nicer.
                          4. DON"T DISCOUNT the OLDIES. You can get some GREAT OLD horses for cheap cheap who have many many years left!

                          I found my OTTB through TRF, but only after looking on my own through private sellers for a year...I drove all over the damned East Coast. These two look promising!
                          http://www.thoroughbredadoption.com/...sage-p145.html
                          http://www.thoroughbredadoption.com/...domo-p146.html

                          My wb I bought in France (when the dollar was strong!) and he's a wonderful schoolmaster (through 4th at least). He was actually MUCH less expensive than you'd think...really, I'm NOT rich at all and he was bought and paid for over a period of 6 months (they let me make payments)...he came from such a competitive barn, if it couldn't go Grand-Prix, they wanted it gone! I was working in France and riding and he was a lesson horse where I was taking lessons (aka: everyone else at the barn rode grand-prix and lil ole me still workin on First Level). I've had my french boyfriend for 8 years now. He's the love of my life. Friends and family though I was NUTS, but they don't know. Everyone who has ever met this horse adores him...from top Grand-Prix riders and trainers to my totally not-horse-savvy friends. He and I are the perfect fit. Someone could offer me $1,000,000 for him at age 18 now, and I still wouldn't sell (and I'm a schoolteacher now, so I really make no bucks!)

                          HORSES ARE LIKE BOYFRIENDS: IF YOU'RE ON THE FENCE ABOUT IT, CHANCES ARE, IT'S NOT THE PERFECT FIT AND IT'S TIME TO LET GO. BUT WHEN IT'S RIGHT, YOU 100%, NO DOUBT IN YOUR MIND, KNOW IT. That's been my experience anyway.
                          Last edited by HollysHobbies; Jun. 3, 2009, 12:32 PM.

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                          • #33
                            I think you've been given some really good advice in many of the responses you've been given. There are so many factors that are important to each of us in different ways. I have found most of my horses when I wasn't looking and they "fell" into my lap. I have to say though, I am not NEARLY as picky as I used to be and have changed my thinking along the way, mostly this changed when I started breeding.

                            I will generally end a conversation when I hear "I am looking for the PERFECT horse" because there is not one of them alive-they all have something that is not perfect (as I have said on many occassions, my left breast is bigger than my right-no one knows this but I would say based on that fact alone, I am not perfect and believe me, that only STARTS the list of my imperfections-lol).

                            I listen to what is important to the buyer and will either make a recommendation or tell them I don't have a horse that would fit their needs. It might be age or just wisdom (I would love to believe the latter) but I won't waste anyone's time trying to make one of my horses "fit" their needs if I know up front it won't. It might also come from our local group of Mid Atlantic Hanoverian Breeders group, if I don't have a horse that might work, I will gladly recommend another breeder. That said, we regularly get emails that say:

                            "I am looking for an older horse, must be quiet, bay, 6-10 years old, pretty, 16.0-16.2 hands and $8K, able to be ridden on trails but show 4th level, etc.."

                            If those horses were that wonderful, who would be selling them?! They are EXACTLY what everyone would want. Don't get me wrong, many times timing is EVERYTHING-divorces happen, liquidations happens, things can work for a buyer but those are more the rare situation than common place.

                            I recently had someone from out of town come look at one of my horses, she had seen a video-had spoken to someone who had ridden her and she wouldn't get on the horse. She has been looking for 3 years, flown to the east coast several times, had 3 or 4 fail vettings (including the one she just picked on this last trip) and still has no horse. Many times we just cannot fit the desires of the person looking for a horse because their criteria is either too specific or even just too broad and they are adament about what they must have.

                            Even in this economy I am not willing to sacrifice what I have worked so hard to produce. I might have to change my tune, but I cannot justify "giving" away horses I have paid a lot to bring along "just because we're in a bad economy". There are a lot of quality horses that can be had for serious "discounts" but I think some buyers are unrealistic in their budgets as well.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              If she's willing to look at non-traditional breeds, I really LIKE this mare. I have been intrigued with her because I also have a Friesian cross and I think when the cross is well done, they can make VERY nice amateur dressage horses. I don't know what her price range is, but I think this mare is reasonable for her level of training and has nice gaits, she's not humongous, and sounds like she has amateur-friendly temperament:

                              http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse...3&share_this=Y

                              (P.S. I don't know this mare personally, just came across her ad)

                              The ad doesn't reference her video on youtube but if you search by her name you'll find it.

                              It does take a long time to find the right one, it took me 6 months just to find an UNBROKE youngster in my price range, which wasn't much. But I have champage taste on a beer budget, and I know it. And I had one fail a prepurchase even though he was only a long yearling! So I could only imagine adding the 3rd level trained criteria to the mix, you are now looking at older horses that could have soundness issues or training issues to weed out.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by patch work farm View Post

                                Even in this economy I am not willing to sacrifice what I have worked so hard to produce. I might have to change my tune, but I cannot justify "giving" away horses I have paid a lot to bring along "just because we're in a bad economy". There are a lot of quality horses that can be had for serious "discounts" but I think some buyers are unrealistic in their budgets as well.
                                I totally agree.

                                By the time I have a horse under saddle and find out the rideability is stellar, the price goes up, not down.
                                www.oakhollowstable.blogspot.com

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                                • Original Poster

                                  #36
                                  Originally posted by Oakstable View Post
                                  I totally agree.

                                  By the time I have a horse under saddle and find out the rideability is stellar, the price goes up, not down.
                                  I don't think we disagree, actually. PWF, if you reduce the training by half and double the price you mentioned, you would be closer to what we are talking about ;-)

                                  But I get your point, and appreciate your honesty.

                                  What I'm tired of seeing is missrepresentation, someone trying to flip a horse they found for a ridiculous price, lameness, etc.
                                  DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Just like so many others things, sometimes it is about networking. Especially in the business of horse buying and selling, I think you have to know the right people that will lead you to the right horse for you. Spreading the word that you are in the market can sometimes produce results.

                                    Here is a word of warning story for you:
                                    I had a friend purchase a fantastic schoolmaster from Holland when she searched the internet. She took a trip out to try him and imported him. Later found out she bought him from a dealer. The horse had really bad respiratory problems which were controlled by a medication that the dealer didn't mention or send with the horse to the US. The horse was great at first, then his health started to decline drastically. After months of downturn and too much damage to repair, the new owner located the original owner of the horse who acknowledged that the horse had a problem and the dealer knew about it. That is the problem with buying from someone you don't know and as someone stated earlier it can be a shady business.
                                    Welcome to my dressage world http://www.juliefranzen.blogspot.com/

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by ToN Farm View Post
                                      I'm guessing it is a budget issue. When ewarmbloods was up and running, there were always wanted ads on there for horses and the budgets were ridiculously low. People wanted not older than 10, quiet, easy to ride, sound, 16.1+, show record, trained to 2nd+, etc. etc. For that, they had some budget like 15k.

                                      Even for a 2nd level horse that is 10, it is going to have a big tag if it is competitive, sound, and easy. Start adding other qualifications, and it gets harder and harder.
                                      Bingo.

                                      TTP, it's a budget issue, and an expectation issue. One or the other has to change.

                                      There are lots of buyers who are laboring under the misconception that, due to the economy, everyone with a horse for sale is desperate, and will come way off the asking price (like 50% ) in order to get a deal done. It isn't true. Yes, there are "sacrifice" and "fire" sales out there, as it sounds like your friend got with her current horse. But lightning seldom strikes twice, and I think your friend will go a lot longer and be a lot more frustrated, waiting for it to.
                                      In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                                      A life lived by example, done too soon.
                                      www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
                                        My gut feeling is the "saint" horses change hands in the barn and don't end up for sale. I could be wrong.
                                        I sold my "saint" horse on Dreamhorse, BUT he sold FAST!!! And I mean SUPER fast. I expected it to take about a year for him to sell in this economy. Sure he was a saint, 10yo, 2nd/3rd level schoolmaster, totally bombproof, really pretty, and the sweetest thing going, but maxed. He needed to go to a low level rider, and a good home was very important to me. I listed him at 10:30pm on a Sunday night. I had a call within a half an hour from the person that ended up buying him. 10 DAYS LATER he was loaded up on a trailer and gone. That was in October. I STILL can't believe he is gone. I could NOT have found him a better home if I sat and hand picked the perfect new owner for him though, so it all worked out for the best. NOW if I could just find ME a new horse. Grrrr . . . !!!

                                        ~Shelly~
                                        http://community.webshots.com/user/smithereens_86
                                        http://www.youtube.com/user/smithereens86

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Too bad about her lack of interest in TBs. A good track-broke TB can often be a great bargain and there are a good deal of them that are quiet, just uneducated. Maybe a full-bodied, shorter TB would be more her liking?

                                          If we're looking at nontraditional, think about a Standardbred. Many of the Standardbreds I've known have been slick and good-looking and all of them had great, willing temperments and a been there-done-that ammy-friendly attitude. A few of them could pass for WBs or TBs. This guy is cute, sounds quiet, and I bet you could get him going in dressage pretty easily. Don't know the horse personally but just an example...maybe look for "quiet" "young" and "sound" and work on the dressage training once he/she appears...a good temperment is better than a dicey temperment with more training for this buyer, it sounds like
                                          2007 Welsh Cob C X TB GG Eragon
                                          Our training journal.
                                          1989-2008 French TB Shamus Fancy
                                          I owned him for fifteen years, but he was his own horse.

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