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Non-competing Ammies don't "need" good instruction. Discuss.

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  • #21
    I can see why a trainer might say something like that.

    Some trainers really love showing - and I'm not being snarky about that, they genuinely love competition and it's what gets their juices running. And that's OK. Competition is like a marker in the sand of time: on this day, we accomplished this. For some, that has tremendous value.

    There are also logistics issues: a trainer who is on the road every other weekend simply won't be there for a lot of Saturday lessons.

    Different trainers have different personalities, and it's appropriate for the trainer to know her strengths and preferences as well. Some trainers love working with kids, some love beginners, some love warmbloods, some love Arabians, etc etc.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

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    • #22
      It's not that non-competing Ammies don't need good instruction... it's that some instructors don't need non-competing ammies.
      Jigga:
      Why must you chastise my brilliant idea with facts and logic? **picks up toys (and wine) and goes home**

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      • #23
        Originally posted by Fixerupper View Post
        Or not.....

        I also don't understand how 'trainer only wants clients that show' translates to 'riders that don't show don't need good instruction' ?????
        An instructor (unless they are at the highest level of their sport) who chooses only to bring along only advanced students is going to have a hard time keeping up their client base. Beginners are an integral part of proper business strategy - advanced students don`t become advanced students before they start out as beginners.

        Plus it`s not that easy to make money as a riding instructor. If you have to spend one hour teaching a couple of old ladies to drag their nags around the ring in the circle it`s no blow to your ego - it`s a job!
        "For some people it's not enough to just be a horse's bum, you have to be sea biscuit's bum" -anon.
        Nes' Farm Blog ~ DesigNes.ca
        Need You Now Equine

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Nes View Post
          An instructor (unless they are at the highest level of their sport) who chooses only to bring along only advanced students is going to have a hard time keeping up their client base. Beginners are an integral part of proper business strategy - advanced students don`t become advanced students before they start out as beginners.

          Plus it`s not that easy to make money as a riding instructor. If you have to spend one hour teaching a couple of old ladies to drag their nags around the ring in the circle it`s no blow to your ego - it`s a job!
          But to be honest, it's not doing anyone any favors for a trainer to be working with people (or horses) that she doesn't understand, like, and respect. The idea that one trainer should handle beginners through upper level riders may be a business priority, but it's not actually all that good for training.

          Some trainers LOVE working with beginners - because among other things, you can get a lot of gratification out of bringing people along to a basic skill level fairly quickly, to teaching them new concepts and having them grasp it right away. Some trainers LOVE putting in the hours of polish on an experienced pair. I've run across a few who enjoy and do both well... but only a few.

          For some it may be about ego - but someone with an unmanageably big ego is probably not a good teacher at any level. Having that person teach beginners doesn't fix the problem.

          More trainers should admit that they aren't the trainer for every student forever.
          If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

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          • #25
            Right now, all of my students are non-showing ammies! I'd starve to death waiting for a student to come along with the competition fire in the belly. I get enough of a kick out of helping them progress with their horses. They don't have to show.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Nes View Post
              Every instructor I've ever spoken with honestly has told me they hate teaching beginners. They want great students who need minimal teaching, show tons and make them look good!
              Fortunately, my trainer makes herself look good. She's extremely successful in her own right, and so are her students who show. But she doesn't give a fig whether we show or not.
              Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by saultgirl View Post
                It's not that non-competing Ammies don't need good instruction... it's that some instructors don't need non-competing ammies.
                I hope they don't need the reference from the non competing Ammie either....


                Some instructors are great with beginners riders, some are awesome with green horses, some do better with the upper level crowd. Such is life.

                but I can see were a non competition client base can be difficult to maintain when you are on the road a lot.

                I mean, you got your lot with you at a show, you can throw in a lesson, but not if they are 2+ hours away, back home.
                Originally posted by BigMama1
                Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                GNU Terry Prachett

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                • #28
                  My perspective:
                  I'm an amateur, riding a green half Arab gelding with no intention of competing. It's all about achieving a personal satisfaction bringing this little rescue along. I have a lovely dressage trainer who is happy giving instruction to me; her philosophy, no matter who the student is, always puts the horse's comfort and need first. She and I agree that for a horse to be in top form ( in the arena or on the trail ) he needs to feel balanced and secure both physically and mentally; this can only translate to the horse from a rider who has a good idea of what they are doing. I'm s l o w l y getting there.

                  That said, I also think a professional trainer has the right to structure his or her client base the way they wish. The attitude that folks that don't show are in some way not " worthy " of solid instruction, however, is really ignorant.

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                  • Original Poster

                    #29
                    Just to clarify... the trainer apparently said both (friend was a little hurt). Knowing the trainer, it wasn't a stretch of the imagination.

                    It was basically "I'll only teach those with the dedication to show, but that's ok, because if you're not going to show you don't need my level of expertise anyways". A while back when I was looking for a trainer I ran into the same attitude at a couple of H/J barns, but hadn't seen it at a dressage barn before.
                    "Adulthood? You're playing with ponies. That is, like, every 9 year old girl's dream. Adulthood?? You're rocking the HELL out of grade 6, girl."

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                    • #30
                      I would say that absolutely nobody NEEDS good instruction - we just prefer it. Nobody NEEDS to show either - some just prefer it. With that in mind I would let the trainer know if she qualifies !
                      ... _. ._ .._. .._

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Equibrit View Post
                        I would say that absolutely nobody NEEDS good instruction - we just prefer it. Nobody NEEDS to show either - some just prefer it. With that in mind I would let the trainer know if she qualifies !

                        Uhm, when ever you engage in an activity, you NEED GOOD instruction, the best you can get/afford!

                        No one needs to ride, that I give you.

                        But yeah, I'd be surprised and not just a little mad should my lack of exibitionistic tendencies be thrown into my face.
                        Originally posted by BigMama1
                        Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                        GNU Terry Prachett

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                        • #32
                          Art for art's sake. Striving to be the best I can be w/my horse is my goal; if I compete and win a ribbon...that's just icing.

                          ETA: Oh, and I NEEEED good instruction... alot of it!!!
                          Last edited by Koko; May. 24, 2009, 01:10 PM.

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                          • #33
                            There are a lot reasons for people to want to show...there are a lot of reasons for people not to want to show....
                            There are a lot of reasons for coaches to want students that show etc. etc.
                            I think that it is a bit overweening to assume that an instructor/coach is 'against' individuals that don't show. It's about preference...and to assume (we all know about ass u me ) that a coach/trainer, vet/blacksmith, chiropractor/massage therapist, saddle-maker/boot-maker is 'against' one facet of the industry because they are 'targeting' another facet of the industry. Sounds a bit paranoid to me .....There is Mercedes and there is KIA...they both get you were you are going - one costs more - they are still cars.
                            * <-- RR Certified Gold Star {) <-- RR Golden Croissant Award
                            Training Tip of the Day: If you can’t beat your best competitor, buy his horse.
                            NO! What was the question?

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                            • #34
                              a good decent instructor is there to teach all----

                              the object of the game is to encourage any person that there and ready to learn
                              how they go on depends on lots of things
                              but big name trianers even still teach to encourage new blood into the sport or equine industry as there are many spins off

                              if ones not interested in an amatuer or a beginner then they shouldnt be teaching

                              personalities -- she obviously has a big ego------- and high expectations of herself /himself
                              and unless she can forfill that with constantly hasnt a hope in hell

                              and those good people that are amatuers or novice or whatever level or whatever they wish to do in using there horses and ponies are the bread and butter and also the one that build that repretation up of a good trianer instructor

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Equibrit View Post
                                I would say that absolutely nobody NEEDS good instruction - we just prefer it. Nobody NEEDS to show either - some just prefer it. With that in mind I would let the trainer know if she qualifies !
                                Without instruction it would take us all a little longer than two lifetimes to get it...there's enough incorrect riding going on (some by myself, I might add).

                                So if one is going to take lessons one NEEDS good instruction, otherwise it is a waste of good money and will prolong the poor riding the horse must endure. Crazy. If one wants to amble about, no problem, however if one wishes to ride and train dressage one needs good instruction.

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                                • #36
                                  I have to pass on beginner riders unless they have an appropriate horse available to learn on. I do not own a school horse, and teach my students on their own horses.

                                  That's the only reason I've had to say "no" to beginners. Otherwise, I'd love to have them.

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                                  • #37
                                    First Impression...

                                    The instructor is a Knucklehead. So far this non-competeing amateur has sent two horses out showing with MY instructors/THEIR trainers who I learned were lots of fun to have an adventure with. Then foolish ole me sent a trained horse out with a student of our shared instructor. Me spend lots of money and had good time with non-judgemental instructors who seemed very happy to share my very fun horses with pathetic ole me. I am always very happy when someone says something so thoroughtly unimaginative and moronic as then I know not to spend my money with them. Someday the goal is to keep moving up a horse for national FEI competition...but it won't be with THAT trainer or anyone like them. It is a relief that they tend to declare their true colors pretty openly so I don't have to look for secret contempt before I sign my checks. For those "serious" teachers so good as to only cultivate like minded students perhaps there are many aspects of we worthless ole students they might be under estimating. I say a tremendous THANK YOU to those instructors who offer a wonderful time and their talent with many ranges of students. You ROCK! PatO

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