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How many strides in a "10" canter pirouette?

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  • How many strides in a "10" canter pirouette?

    Thats all. How many strides in a "10" canter pirouette?

  • #2
    6-8 strides in canter pirouette

    There are 6-8 strides in canter pirouette. But, the number of strides is not what makes it a "10".

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Michael Poulin asked me this a long time ago in a clinic and I answered correctly at the time, but now I forget what my answer was. I think it was 8. So you know how there are standards that have to be met for a movement, I think number of strides is part of the standard for a score of 10.

      Comment


      • #4
        Fine. Six strides is a ten. Then how many strides are there in a 10 meter circle.

        Not at all, and you won't find that in any rule book or judging handbook. That is not how canter pirouettes are judged.

        First of all, the 'ballpark' is six to eight strides. It is NOT an exact number.

        Six to eight strides does NOT equal a ten score.

        It just so happens, that when a horse makes the correct type of strides, it will usually help the quality of the canter. If those six-eight strides are not a 3 beat canter, lunging up and down, it ain't no 10.

        It depends on the quality and balance of those strides and many, many other important issues, such as how large of a circle the hind feet make (dinner plate size to very large circle), how well the canter 3 beat is maintained.

        Most important first is staying on the spot and canters around his hind legs. Then after that, cantering. Then after that, the quality of the canter. Then after that, the rythm etc.
        Last edited by slc2; Apr. 2, 2009, 09:25 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't think the OP implied that the "correct" number of strides equals a 10. I understood the question, which was: if everything else is worthy of a 10, what is the ideal number of strides to keep it a 10. Why is that so hard to understand?
          Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.

          Comment


          • #6
            "How many strides in a "10" canter pirouette? "

            Comment


            • #7
              It just so happens, that when a horse makes the correct type of strides, it will usually help the quality of the canter. If those six-eight strides are not a 3 beat canter, lunging up and down, it ain't no 10.

              It depends on the quality and balance of those strides and many, many other important issues, such as how large of a circle the hind feet make (dinner plate size to very large circle), how well the canter 3 beat is maintained

              http://www.eurodressage.com/reports/...5gdf/rep4.html

              2005 Global Dressage Forum

              The most striking point that Clayton made in her long exposé was that the canter becomes four-beat in the canter pirouette due to diagonal dissociation. Christine Stuckelberger commented that "twenty years ago, Eric Lette and Georg Wahl said that the pirouette was four-beat but everybody protested. I am glad that today it has been scientifically proven."

              Comment


              • #8
                If all else is perfect, it doesn't matter if there are 6 strides or 8 strides, you'll still get a "10".
                Proud member of the Colbert Dressage Nation

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by J-Lu View Post
                  If all else is perfect, it doesn't matter if there are 6 strides or 8 strides, you'll still get a "10".
                  You can even have 7 strides, AND if you ever get a 10 on a canter pirouette then I'll buy you dinner

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    But this is like the 'no suspension in the piaffe' 'discovery'. It doesn't really change anything. One is still seeking a 3 beat canter in the pirouette and one is still looking for a lively athletic piaffe with energetic activity in the hind quarters moving thru the body.

                    The dissociation of the diagonal pair, if it occurs, is so slight most people would never be able to see it. If it is visible without a video slow motion feature, it's going to sink the score.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Go right ahead and seek. Hillary and the cameras say "ye shall not find".
                      Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                      Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SillyHorse View Post
                        I understood the question, which was: if everything else is worthy of a 10, what is the ideal number of strides to keep it a 10. Why is that so hard to understand?
                        SH - I also believe that was the OP's question as they did NOT say "what does it take to make a 10 in a canter piroette?"
                        Now in Kentucky

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by caddym View Post
                          You can even have 7 strides, AND if you ever get a 10 on a canter pirouette then I'll buy you dinner
                          Ditto that, I'll buy you a lunch! I personally consider canter pirouette as the most difficult movement that we have in the current dressage. And I'm not talking about the hoping, laboring spins that can score a 4/5, but a quality canter pirouette that at least can score a 6. I'm not even sure if anybody ever got 10 on the canter pirouette?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RogersChapelFarm View Post
                            http://www.eurodressage.com/reports/...5gdf/rep4.html

                            2005 Global Dressage Forum

                            The most striking point that Clayton made in her long exposé was that the canter becomes four-beat in the canter pirouette due to diagonal dissociation. Christine Stuckelberger commented that "twenty years ago, Eric Lette and Georg Wahl said that the pirouette was four-beat but everybody protested. I am glad that today it has been scientifically proven."
                            Yes, and that is one of the reasons why it's so difficult to keep the rest of the canter pure 3 beat when a canter pirouette is a 4 beat or 3&1/2 beat if you like that number better (but it's not a pure 3 beat no matter how you look at it)

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Of course I meant, if everything else is perfect, ie quality of canter, smallest diameter possible etc... then how many strides would be considered "perfect."

                              As an aside--When I am riding, I really don't think about how many strides I do, but I have gotten 8s at 4th level on my canter pirouettes (obviously not full pirouettes yet) but at home, schooling full pirouettes I think I do them pretty damn good. And dispite those who think it doesn't matter as long as its 6-8 I'm still pretty sure the number is 8 for a "10".

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I got a 9 once on both canter pirouttes on the center
                                line with a 10 on the flying change between - does that
                                get me anything? (Of course, the same test had series of
                                4's for all the piaffes and transitions, so it still didn't score
                                very high)
                                To answer the op one had seven and the other 8
                                Dot
                                www.settlementfarm.us

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by caddym View Post
                                  You can even have 7 strides, AND if you ever get a 10 on a canter pirouette then I'll buy you dinner
                                  Wooooooohooo! You're on!!! So are you, DA. Although i'm pretty sure that Rule 6, article 57, line 239 states that a canter pirouette with an odd number of strides gets a 0.01% deduction - thus preventing it from ever scoring a perfect 10. Dotneko...it must have been that odd-strided pirouette that prevented you from getting that 10!

                                  At a clinic, Janet Foy said there is no "perfect" number of strides - it all depends on the horse, the balance of the pirouette, etc. However, 6-8 is ideal given the mechanics of the movement (yes, even 7, according to her). So a perfectly balanced supremely ridden pirouette with 6 strides can get a 10, and that same perfect pirouette can get a 10 with 8 strides. It's not about an exact numer of strides.
                                  Proud member of the Colbert Dressage Nation

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    so, my trainer (FEI I judge) says you can't have too many strides in a pir.
                                    which I think translates into as many as you can while keeping the balance, gait, throughness, straightness...


                                    J-Lu, are you sure about the odd number thing?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      The rules on the subject: DR112 The Pirouette, The Half-pirouette, The Quarter-pirouette, The Working Pirouette,
                                      The Working Half-pirouette, The Turn on the Haunches.
                                      1 The pirouette (half-pirouette) is a circle (half-circle) executed on two tracks with a radius
                                      equal to the length of the horse, the forehand moving round the haunches.
                                      2. Pirouettes (half-pirouettes) are usually carried out at collected walk or canter but can also
                                      be executed at Piaffe.
                                      3. At the pirouette (half-pirouette) the forefeet and the outside hind foot move round the inside
                                      hind foot which forms the pivot and should return to the same spot, or slightly in front of
                                      it, each time it leaves the ground.
                                      4. At whatever gait the pirouette (half-pirouette) is executed the horse slightly bent in the direction
                                      in which he is turning should, remaining on the bit with a light contact, turn smoothly
                                      round maintaining the exact cadence and sequence of footfalls of that pace. The poll stays
                                      the highest point during the entire movement.
                                      5 During the pirouettes (half-pirouettes) the horse should maintain his impulsion and never
                                      in the slightest way move backwards or deviate sideways. If the inside hind foot is not raised
                                      and returned to the ground in the same rhythm as the outside hind foot the gait is no longer
                                      regular.
                                      6. In executing the pirouette or the half-pirouette in canter the rider should maintain perfect
                                      lightness of the horse while accentuating the collection. The quarters are well-engaged and
                                      lowered and show a good flexion of the joints. An integral part of the movement is the canter
                                      strides before and after the pirouette. These should be characterized by an increased activity
                                      and collection before the pirouette and, the movement having been completed, by the balance
                                      being maintained as the horse proceeds.
                                      7. The quality of the pirouettes (half-pirouettes) is judged according to the suppleness, lightness,
                                      cadence and regularity and to the precision and smoothness of the transitions; pirouettes
                                      (half-pirouettes) at canter are judged also according to the balance, the elevation and
                                      the number of strides (at pirouettes 6-8, at half-pirouettes 3-4 are desirable).
                                      8. The Quarter-pirouette. As a preparatory exercise, the quarter-pirouette is usually executed
                                      on the track at a given letter, the horse being highly collected for 1 or 2 strides before
                                      and then through the execution of a 90 degree turn around the haunches in 2-3 strides, maintaining
                                      a correct canter footfall.
                                      9. The Working Pirouette and Working Half-Pirouette. The requirements for a working halfpirouette
                                      are identical to those of a regular half-pirouette, except that the allowable radius is
                                      increased to approximately 5 meters. A working half-pirouette is to be judged like a regular
                                      half-pirouette except that full credit must be given for a well-performed, but larger (5 meter)
                                      half-pirouette. Full credit should also be given for a well-performed regular-sized half-pirouette.
                                      A significant deduction should be made if a rider attempts but performs poorly a regular
                                      half-pirouette. BOD 1/13/08 Effective 4/1/08
                                      10. The Turn on the Haunches. This movement is a schooling exercise which can be executed
                                      from a halt or walk and is preparatory for the pirouette which is executed out of a collected
                                      gait. The horse’s forehand moves in even, quiet and regular steps around the horse’s
                                      inner hind leg while maintaining the rhythm of the walk. In the half turn on the haunches the
                                      horse is not required to step with its inside hind leg in the same spot each time it leaves the
                                      ground but may move slightly forward. Backing or loss of rhythm are considered a serious
                                      fault. This movement may be executed through 90 degrees, 180 degrees, or 360 degrees.

                                      Why 6-8? Anything less is over rotation per stride and the horse will fall onto the shoulders. Anything longer and the horse will supress the activity of the hindquarters too earily.

                                      The other important elements: balance/activity/lighteness/etc.
                                      I.D.E.A. yoda

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Dressage Art View Post
                                        I'm not even sure if anybody ever got 10 on the canter pirouette?
                                        Edward Gal and Lingh did at the '05 Vegas World Cup. And the audience knew it - a big "oooh" was heard as he did it, before the score even came up on the screen.

                                        Comment

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