• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Am I crazy? Your idea of a free lease is ...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Am I crazy? Your idea of a free lease is ...

    So, this is a spin-off of a thread that I have going in the "Giveaways" forum, and I'd really like your input to see if I am crazy or not. Seems like the rules/mods are on my side, so I think I'm sane....

    When you hear "free lease", what do you think? When you hear "free lease" of a competitive, sound, well-trained horse, what do you expect to get? What do you expect to give?

    In my experience, a "free lease" is where there is not a lease fee charged, but the person leasing the horse takes on expenses, usually including vet, shoes, board, insurance, and whatever else is needed to care for the horse properly while they are "using" him as if he is theirs.

    This, for the person leasing, is a pretty sweet deal, because they basically get to enjoy a well-trained and nice quality horse without having to put out the purchase price. It also can be helpful to the owner, if they are out of commission (pregnant, injured), or need some help with time/cutting costs.

    So, am I crazy, sheltered, out of the loop, or what? I know you'll tell me if I'm a loon!

  • #2
    Nope, that's my definition of a "free lease" as well!
    "Adulthood? You're playing with ponies. That is, like, every 9 year old girl's dream. Adulthood?? You're rocking the HELL out of grade 6, girl."

    Comment


    • #3
      You're not a loon
      In my expirence also, that is exactly what a free lease is.
      I guess if you weren't too versed in what horses actually cost you might think this would be totally free, but NOTHING is really free anymore...unfortunately.

      Comment


      • #4
        Free lease means no lease free. Just like free horse, free dog, free cat - no fee.

        If a horse is being free leased at the owner's place or the leasee's place, there is no fee for the horse. Otherwise it should be listed as a lease for Xdollars. Vet and farrier bills may or may not be additional.

        If a horse is being free leased and boarded anywhere, the payment would be board fee and any farrier/vet fees as decided by both parties. Otherwise it would be X dollars to 'pay for the right to ride the horse', plus board fee, plus any vet or farrier fees, as decided by both parties.

        It is very black and white.

        Comment


        • #5
          No, your definition is pretty much in line with mine! I've free leased a few horses and that's always been the terms

          Comment


          • #6
            free lease typically means

            that while there is no "lease fee" ie, a month to month charge for leasing the horse/pony, the person "leasing" the horse pays all related expenses, ie, board, vet, blacksmith, entry fees, etc. There are leases that in addition to all that (usually an upper level competition horse/pony) charge a monthly or "show season" fee, which can be thousands of dollars per year, but still cheaper than a 70K pony the kid will outgrow in a year or two.

            Comment


            • #7
              There is no such thing as a free horse

              Comment


              • #8
                Grandpa warned me about "free"

                and said "if it eats or s**ts, it is NOT free.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I've done a few "free leases" at the end of the day I think they sort of suck.

                  In one situation I put a lot of training (at my expense) showing (at my expense) and proactive vet and farrier work into a horse and the owner would constantly show up and talk about how much money she was going to be able to sell the horse for now that i've worked with it. At the end of the day I was sick of putting my time and money into a horse someone else was going to profit off of.

                  I think it would have been different if the horse was a schoolmaster or was teaching ME, but I didn't really get much out of it other than having to say goodbye to a horse I had bonded with and spent a lot of money on.

                  Unless i'm ever in a situation where I can absolutely not afford a horse I probably won't do it again.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I completerly agree with your definition of "free lease".

                    I have been on both ends of free leases. In the right circumstances, tehy work out well for both parties. In te wrong curcumstances they can be constant problems. It is important to have shared expectations.
                    Janet

                    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I agree with everyone else. A free lease waives a leasing fee, but the horse's expenses are either paid for or contributed to.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        How about a situation where a horse is free-leased as described above or the person leasing pays a small fee in addition to board, vet, and farrier BUT the BO/horse owner continues to use the horse as a lesson horse. Would this generally be considered fair to the person leasing and paying all of the horse's expenses?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have done one free lease. The horse stayed at the owners property and she paid for the vet, feet, pretty much all of he care for the horse. I did work at a hunter/jumper barn and I brought the mare over there and I worked extra to cover her board. That was all that I put into the horse. I have to agree with 2LaZ2race. You bond with the animal and then it gets taken away. The owner of this particular mare gave her away to someone else after I took care of her for seven years. Never again will I be in a situation like that.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Usually I understand a free lease to mean the person leasing the horses pays all the costs as if they owned the horse. Grey areas include who pays the vet fees if the horse colics, etc. Lameness caused by use would be the leasee's fee. Contracts can be put in place, or insurance paid, but in the end, it boils down to ethics and how trustworthy each party is. A piece of paper is just that and hard to follow up in court. The owner does have rights and these should be understood, i.e whether they want to ride the horse at any time, etc. The owner can come and take the horse back on a moment's notice if they suspect abuse, normally a month on either side, etc. First right of refusal to buy is a good one to put in.
                            Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Presently I have a horse out on a free lease. As much as I'd like to have him at home to ride, it is much more financially advantageous to have him leased. The Lessee loves him to death and my pocket book is healthier. It is a win/win situation for both of us.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                How about a situation where a horse is free-leased as described above or the person leasing pays a small fee in addition to board, vet, and farrier BUT the BO/horse owner continues to use the horse as a lesson horse. Would this generally be considered fair to the person leasing and paying all of the horse's expenses?
                                No, that's not fair if it is a full lease. Two things should happen. The owner of the horse needs to be aware the BO is using him in lessons. Then the person full leasing should be paid a per ride lesson fee. It's like subletting a house.

                                I've done that same situation many times, and the standard fee around here for using a horse in a lesson is $10/ride. The BO or trainer pays the person footing the bills for the horse, but she can pass the cost off to the student by raising her rate on that horse.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  No ,you're not bonkers. I've posted on your giveaway thread.

                                  PS: I think you have shown wonderful restraint. I would be pissed to have my add hijacked like that.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Sugar Daddy????

                                    Originally posted by indyblue View Post
                                    No ,you're not bonkers. I've posted on your giveaway thread.

                                    PS: I think you have shown wonderful restraint. I would be pissed to have my add hijacked like that.

                                    Ditto the above! The only way to get an upper level horse with somebody else paying for everything is if
                                    a) you are a kick-ass rider or
                                    b) you are giving that person something "non monetary" in exchange

                                    NOBODY RIDES FOR FREE!!!!!!!!!!
                                    Holly
                                    www.ironhorsefrm.com
                                    Oldenburg foals and young prospects
                                    LIKE us on Facebook!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I have a couple of free leases going on, and the only grey area is vet fees. I pay routine and emergency vet bills, but the owner pays for their yearly plan fee (which covers vaccinations and wormings) and if they colic or require major care, I would pay up to a certain amount, and then the owner and I have to jointly decide whether to go further depending on the situation.

                                      It works out good for me, because one of the horses I'm leasing I would never in a million years be able to afford. For shows I pay all show expenses except the owner has done the USDF and USEF fees associated with the horse.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        What you listed is my idea of what a free lease is. In my experience the leaser usually pays for insurance on the horse. Major medical is paid by the owner (if insurence doesnt cover it) if something happens that isnt directly the leaser's fault (colic, pasture accident, etc)

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X