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Good riding now mandatory for selection of German team

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  • Good riding now mandatory for selection of German team

    http://www.eurodressage.com/equestri...team-selection

    "When it comes down to team nomination for Championships, not only the potential for success will count, but also the strict following of the guidelines for riding, driving and vaulting. The FN disapproves of any training methods that goes against the guidelines. This means explicitly any aggressive riding or training methods, which entail a forceful handling of the horse."

    Interesting decision, all due to the Totilas affair at the European Championships.

    Would/could USET do something similar ? (not saying they need to !)
    Last edited by Mardi; Dec. 13, 2015, 10:57 PM.

  • #2
    Its just so funny that it's come that far to have to have a rule that only good riders need apply or non abusive riders need apply.

    Team riders should be considered examples of what's correct. Some can't , can they?

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, we need something like this.

      Comment


      • #4
        But it would need to be fairly defined. We also need a real certification program for instructors and barn managers ... not just some poor unthought out mess.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by BaroquePony View Post
          Yes, we need something like this.
          boy do we ever. There would be some team members , old and new, who would not be on the consideration list
          _\\]
          -- * > hoopoe
          Procrastinate NOW
          Introverted Since 1957

          Comment


          • #6
            ...and I went all the way to Aachen to see Totilas in the GP Freestyle final but, of course, he had been withdrawn. It was still awesome.
            Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by hoopoe View Post
              There would be some team members , old and new, who would not be on the consideration list
              Which brings up the team "selectors". Between them, the team vet and chef d'equipe, they would need a boatload of courage to deny a BNR a slot.

              Comment


              • #8
                I wish there was measure of adult amateurs "good riding" such as a competence/dressage seat equitation class that needed a minimum score for each level before a rider could move on. Yes there are saints and schoolmasters who dutifully put in a respectable test in spite of their badly flopping and pulling riders but when a double is involved it becomes especially painful to watch.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JLR1 View Post
                  I wish there was measure of adult amateurs "good riding" such as a competence/dressage seat equitation class that needed a minimum score for each level before a rider could move on. Yes there are saints and schoolmasters who dutifully put in a respectable test in spite of their badly flopping and pulling riders but when a double is involved it becomes especially painful to watch.
                  There had been discussion of this, and there were many protests. I tend to agree with you. I am not showing at upper levels but am schooling higher on my gelding, and if I sat his trot as some people showing do, my trainer would either make me post or make me get off. I can't imagine how saintly the personalities of the horses who put up with it and still perform upper level work.
                  If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
                  -meupatdoes

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I wonder how the FN plans to police riders training methods.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by netg View Post
                      There had been discussion of this, and there were many protests. I tend to agree with you. I am not showing at upper levels but am schooling higher on my gelding, and if I sat his trot as some people showing do, my trainer would either make me post or make me get off. I can't imagine how saintly the personalities of the horses who put up with it and still perform upper level work.
                      Bit confused ... no offense meant at all ... is there something wrong with doing the upper level work in a double or at a sitting trot, or is there just something wrong with the way some people do these things? Sorry, I'm just misunderstanding.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sammicat View Post
                        Bit confused ... no offense meant at all ... is there something wrong with doing the upper level work in a double or at a sitting trot, or is there just something wrong with the way some people do these things? Sorry, I'm just misunderstanding.
                        JLR1 was referring to the people who ride in a double while bouncing horribly and pulling on their horses' mouths. I was responding to her.

                        Context, it's a helpful thing.
                        If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
                        -meupatdoes

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JLR1 View Post
                          I wish there was measure of adult amateurs "good riding" such as a competence/dressage seat equitation class that needed a minimum score for each level before a rider could move on. Yes there are saints and schoolmasters who dutifully put in a respectable test in spite of their badly flopping and pulling riders but when a double is involved it becomes especially painful to watch.
                          This was proposed several years ago on the basis that there was a lot of "bad riding" out there.

                          A group of people came together here on COTH (colloquially called The Nerd Herd) and did a study of 45,000 dressage scores in the US. There was a fraction of a percent at 50% and below.

                          So if the riding is that crappy, then the judges are not judging appropriately enough to send a message to the rider.

                          Here is a link to the USDF write-up of that study
                          http://www.usdf.org/EduDocs/Competit...ssage_comp.pdf

                          Here is a link to the paper that was submitted to the Journal of Quantitative Analysis in Sports (JQAS)
                          https://drive.google.com/folderview?...tWOGtGSzg#list
                          Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress.
                          Alfred A. Montapert

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I wonder who decides what constitutes good riding. I'd have to say they are asking for a world of trouble.
                            eg: is keeping a horse boxed 24 hrs a day an acceptable training method ?
                            Last edited by Equibrit; Dec. 16, 2015, 10:16 AM.
                            ... _. ._ .._. .._

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by pluvinel View Post
                              This was proposed several years ago on the basis that there was a lot of "bad riding" out there.

                              A group of people came together here on COTH (colloquially called The Nerd Herd) and did a study of 45,000 dressage scores in the US. There was a fraction of a percent at 50% and below.

                              So if the riding is that crappy, then the judges are not judging appropriately enough to send a message to the rider.

                              Here is a link to the USDF write-up of that study
                              http://www.usdf.org/EduDocs/Competit...ssage_comp.pdf

                              Here is a link to the paper that was submitted to the Journal of Quantitative Analysis in Sports (JQAS)
                              https://drive.google.com/folderview?...tWOGtGSzg#list
                              50% is an extremely low threshold for the analysis. Without actually seeing all 45,000 scores there is no way of knowing what went wrong...possibly bad riding but more likely mistakes, or a fresh horse. All the study proved is that most people show up adequately prepared for their test. I don't think enough instructors emphasize a good seat...why, because in the end the saints and schoolmasters who are likely in full training will earn a rider her 60% for a medal or a trip to the Finals which can be bragged about on Facebook.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by JLR1 View Post
                                50% is an extremely low threshold for the analysis. Without actually seeing all 45,000 scores there is no way of knowing what went wrong...possibly bad riding but more likely mistakes, or a fresh horse. All the study proved is that most people show up adequately prepared for their test. I don't think enough instructors emphasize a good seat...why, because in the end the saints and schoolmasters who are likely in full training will earn a rider her 60% for a medal or a trip to the Finals which can be bragged about on Facebook.
                                Bingo! Ergo, no need for "a minimum score for each level before a rider could move on."

                                And 50% was not a "threshold.....the scores described a nice continuous gaussian distribution. The use of the 50% in my statement is that 50% is the score for "Marginal". Perhaps reading the paper might help.

                                When the "qualifying rule" was proposed, it was going to require exactly that....a minimum score to move up. The reason it was proposed was "there was a lot of bad riding" out there. The Nerds, being curious nerds, decided to see if that was true.

                                If there was all this "bad riding" out there, then the scores should reflect it. We didn't find it.

                                If people are bouncing on a "saintly schoolmaster" where "it hurst to watch" then the judges should appropriately mark down the ride....you don't need some additional rule.
                                Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress.
                                Alfred A. Montapert

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Quoted from pluvinel:

                                  If people are bouncing on a "saintly schoolmaster" where "it hurst to watch" then the judges should appropriately mark down the ride....you don't need some additional rule.
                                  Agree, the judges need to score according to correct work ... shouldn't have to have an extra rule to make things messy. The proposed rule was also going to make it difficult for riders that had taken time off and wanted to come back into competing .. or who didn't want to show all levels before showing at 2nd 3rd or above to do it .... and some riders do not want to show at lower levels with some horses ... if I recall.

                                  Great study and well done.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I'm confused by this whole thing. Was it ever acceptable to have bad riders on a team?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      this is America ... we have the "freedom" to be as bad as we want and have the support of little cliques

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        We can even through confetti if we want.

                                        Comment

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