Stallion Spotlight

Sir Donnerhall_02Beelitz

Real Estate Spotlight

IMG_0200
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Why does there seem to be a 2nd level wall

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Why does there seem to be a 2nd level wall

    I guess this is a bit of a Philosophical Question, but it seems like there are many riders at training and first level, but at least in my area once you reach second the numbers dwindle drastically.

    I believe many horses and riders are physically capable of this level. I am showing second this year so I also understand the difficulties of the level, but why does this level seem to be a wall for so many riders?

  • #2
    Sitting trot. If you are at all self-conscious about how well or poorly you sit the trot, you really don't want to be seen "out in public."
    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

    1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

    Comment


    • #3
      Yup. Used to be the 1st Level wall. Since you can post at 1st now, it's become the 2nd level wall.

      That said, I know experienced riders who don't much like the 2nd level tests because they don't seem to flow as well as others. Just watching the tests, I agree. From a riding perspective, I have no way of knowing.
      __________________________
      "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
      the best day in ten years,
      you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Ahh I do respect that, the sitting trot can be a beast!

        Comment


        • #5
          Just a thought that comes to mind... There are many people are sort of try to rush through the levels. Maybe 2nd level offers honest training that you can't just rush though... and these people who are looking for these quick answers and results get flustered and fail?

          I honestly don't know.. heck, I'm still at training level with elements of 1st/2nd at home. Just a thought...
          "I am but a passenger on this ship"
          -- Stendal (epitaph)

          Comment


          • #6
            Also, if you can't sit well (regardless of whether or not you care how you look) you just can't ride at this level.

            Yes, you can buy a very expensive horse, put on a double bridle, and run the reins under a bucking strap while you flail and deludedly consider yourself to be riding FEI, but you will always know deep in your heart that the second you swing a leg over someone else's first level horse in normal tack it will all fall apart.

            It's the level where the basics start to diverge into fakery, if you're not careful.
            The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
            Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
            Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
            The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

            Comment


            • #7
              second is the beginning of the real discipline to do X at Y. Thou Shalt. Not, thou shalt develop....or between __ and __ thou shalt.

              One must have so much more obedience, submission, and harmony- plus real fitness for both horse and rider- it is a wall.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by emipou View Post
                Just a thought that comes to mind... There are many people are sort of try to rush through the levels. Maybe 2nd level offers honest training that you can't just rush though... and these people who are looking for these quick answers and results get flustered and fail?
                At least for the people I referenced, this really isn't the case.

                They haven't rushed and aren't looking for quick answers. Nor are they unfamiliar with the harmony, obedience, etc., that are required. They're long-time professionals and good riding instructors. They just don't really care for the 2nd level tests.
                __________________________
                "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                the best day in ten years,
                you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think 2nd level is what separates the casual riders from the truly committed Dressage riders. Most horses can walk trot and canter so Training level attracts a wide variety of riders. Those who do well at TL and enjoyed it, then think to themselves "Why not try for 1st level"? By the time you get to 2nd level all those casual riders are overwhelmed and loose interest, therefore only the serious Dressage folks remain.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Collection... It is hard! And yes, it comes with sitting. Not just in collection, but in medium gaits as well. Then we start having technical movements like turn on haunches, and lateral work. And - simple freakin' changes - ugh. Personally, I think those are too hard and require a high degree of collection to do well - I would like so see those moved to 3rd or 4th level. I actually think this is why many good riders skip 2nd level - the flying changes are easier for many horses then the simple changes And the lateral work isn't much harder from 2nd to 3rd - heck, if you can do the shoulder in-to renvers movement in 2nd 3, half-pass is probably a piece of cake!

                    Most of the work in Tr and 1st level can be done by people in different disciplines - a hunter can do a basic lengthening and leg yield, so it is very easy to cross disciplines at Tr and 1st level.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      From the perspective of someone now showing at Training and looking to move up to 1st by the fall, and who has read through the 2nd level tests to get an idea of what would be expected, the stumbling point for me isn't the sitting, which I'm not great at but can do and improve upon, it's the asking for actual "collection" in the gaits. I've got a long, lanky TB who is quite happy to do the lengthenings asked for at 1st, but just doesn't have the hind end conformation to really sit and collect. With a pro on her? Yeah, I'm sure she could eke out a respectable test at 2nd, but I'm showing her myself, for fun, and our main "job" is as eventers, so if I don't get past 1st, I'm OK with that. I can toodle around there, learn the new tests next year, maybe learn to do a musical freestyle. Maybe we'll try 2nd at a schooling show just to try it, but for me, it's about knowing our limitations and weaknesses.
                      A Year In the Saddle

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I had a judge tell me last fall that she hated the 2nd level tests and thinks they're too hard. She said, "Don't stay at second level too long." If you want your bronze, you have no choice but to do them, but she agreed that a lot of riders do skip second level for many of the reasons already mentioned.
                        In a society that profits from your self-doubt, liking yourself is a rebellious act.

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Besides being able to not only sit the trot, there is the difficulty so many find of actuality working while doing it. Then there are those who very subtly have been riding from their hands. So now they are asked for S/I,and produce neck-in, and as far as H/I goes, it isn't. So the road to engagement and collection goes out the window, and there is a retreat to First, where the lack of proper use of seat and legs are not so obvious.
                            Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                            Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MysticOakRanch View Post
                              Collection... It is hard! And yes, it comes with sitting. Not just in collection, but in medium gaits as well. Then we start having technical movements like turn on haunches, and lateral work. And - simple freakin' changes - ugh. Personally, I think those are too hard and require a high degree of collection to do well - I would like so see those moved to 3rd or 4th level. I actually think this is why many good riders skip 2nd level - the flying changes are easier for many horses then the simple changes And the lateral work isn't much harder from 2nd to 3rd - heck, if you can do the shoulder in-to renvers movement in 2nd 3, half-pass is probably a piece of cake!

                              Most of the work in Tr and 1st level can be done by people in different disciplines - a hunter can do a basic lengthening and leg yield, so it is very easy to cross disciplines at Tr and 1st level.
                              I agree about half pass vs. shoulder in to renvers!

                              I don't yet consistently have the engagement I want from my horse for 2nd level. We can do tests at home which should score in the 60s, but take it to a show and we won't have it anymore. I think the dedication and focus to work consistently enough that you can put together that collection in a show ring is tough, particularly if you are on a non purpose-bred horse. I expect just by being ridden my purpose bred mare will be able to do 2nd level pretty easily. She wants to be engaged, and will easily learn to collect and balance, she's far easier for me to ride, etc. But I will be using all I have learned on my much more difficult horse to get her there, and perhaps if she were my first dressage horse it would be hard with her, too.

                              Just the fact I am lucky enough to have multiple horses to ride makes that a less daunting step, too...
                              If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
                              -meupatdoes

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by merrygoround View Post
                                Besides being able to not only sit the trot, there is the difficulty so many find of actuality working while doing it. Then there are those who very subtly have been riding from their hands. So now they are asked for S/I,and produce neck-in, and as far as H/I goes, it isn't. So the road to engagement and collection goes out the window, and there is a retreat to First, where the lack of proper use of seat and legs are not so obvious.
                                This is a great point, too. Folks can fake the leg yield well enough, but it seems like you rarely see the correct bend for SI and HI just based on my experience scribing!
                                If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
                                -meupatdoes

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I love 2nd level test 3, it's the only test at which I've ever scored over 70.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I second everything MysticOakRanch said. I'm currently looking the wall of second level in the face and figuring out how to climb it. My horse is a schoolmaster who can do second level in his sleep. I can sit the trot. I can do all the movements. I can get the collection, the impulsion.... but when I try to put it all together in a test it falls apart. It is so frustrating.

                                    I've been working on 2-1. I start out strong, horse has a nice medium, shoulder in, halt, reverse and free walk are a piece of cake. After the free walk i've lost some of my 'round' and the canter transition is RIGHT THERE. My canter isn't collected enough, my canter/walk transition has trot steps in it. I get my canter back about half way through the canter work and finish strong. Halt, leave the ring and beat my head against a wall.

                                    My trainer is supportive and has said that many struggle with this transition. I'm attempting it at a show in a couple of weeks for the first time, if I don't chicken out and scratch, just to get it OVER with. I'm hoping that will take some of the pressure off and it won't be such a big deal afterwards....

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      For all of the reasons listed above - rider problems, horse problems, test problems, it's the start of Big Boy Dressage.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I say this speaking of myself as a person who got stuck at 1st/barely started showing at 2nd before getting a chance to start over and really correct some long-term fundamental issues:

                                        Lack of genuine understanding of how to use the the exercises/requirements/purpose of the levels to develop a dressage horse.

                                        My horse and I could do all of the "things" required at 2nd level well enough to score ~59 in her first outing, which far from terrible, but there's no way we would have *ever* made it to 3rd the way we were going.

                                        What we had going for us were obedience, suppleness, technical precision (transitions at letters, shape and quality of school figures, straightness/squareness, bend in lateral work), harmony (invisible aids). (So most of the things people are saying are stumbling blocks.)

                                        The problem was that I had not developed any of her skills in a way that encouraged/demanded even the 2nd level version of self-carriage, and we *never started* developing thrust/impulsion. She probably never would have deserved a score above 60 at 2nd level because the way I trainer her completely failed to prepare her for the requisite amount of engagement of the hindquarters.

                                        In short, I got obsessed with tiny little details and *totally missed* the big picture.

                                        (Disclaimer: I have no horse at present and probably won't compete again for a couple years, so I may still be doing things totally wrong!)

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X