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Cantering Backwards?

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Philosopher View Post
    Interesting. What about this one?

    That was Zingaro. He was amazing! I've seen the show several times in New York City and it was incredible to watch.
    She wasn't running away with me, I just couldn't stop her!

    Comment


    • #22
      mine does it, it is nothing to him

      He was a very good racehorse who won 300k and set a record. I think this history might explain his intense competitive nature or visa versa. I bought him when he was old and set in his ways at age 7 coming off the track based on watching him walk and trot in hand. This horse is an excellent light strong mover who naturally and easily does piaffe and passage and canter forwards and backwards when he is really pumped up under saddle and I won't let him go forward the way he would like. He does it when he seems to have a flashback that he is in a starting gate, he is really excited, is incredibly energized, focused, and collected, and then when I won't let him explode into an all out gallop, he does all this, plus he will go sideways or do zig zags, not that I am I any kind of good relaxed control, I am generally trying to get him to just walk or trot out of it, but in his mind, it is all or nothing.


      I am embarrassed to say I can't train him out of it, he gets this way when out in the open and horses come up behind him or get too much in front of him or strange male horses are in the ring with him, etc. he is very hot, though very fun when behaving. I have given up trying to event this guy, he is too much horse. I do enjoy my dressage lessons and what a talented character he is.

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      • #23
        ... and I thought my mare invented the movement when a herd (?) of lamas came up to the fenceline we were approaching. Talk about surprized.
        Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

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        • #24
          Cantering backwards

          hmm..my tb mare did it w/my daughter during a dressage test when a flock of birds came flying into the indoor...the judges comment was"athletic, but naughty"
          Fox Ridge

          Champ. Welsh Lands End The Colonels Fox
          Fox Ridge Welsh ponies on fb

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          • #25
            The last video was the best one. You could see the rider was still riding the horse forward to the hand as the horse went back. It would be easy to imagine a fighting bull in front of him too and the use the maneuver would have in working stock.

            I have two horses, both highly dominant geldings one a Spanish horse the other an Egyptian Arab who can both go backwards very easily at a variety of footfall patterns to pin, corner, chase another horse in play. Both are amazingly athletic and clever.

            Like all things when ridden or trained though, its only value or worth is in how well one maintains the purity of the gaits, the forward tendency, the balance and suppleness. The last horse did demonstrate those things and I liked that it was not an overdone amount. That first video made me want to say "enough already!"

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Philosopher View Post
              Interesting. What about this one?
              I actually did have the chance to experience this... unintentionally in a tests that I scored 30%

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              • #27
                My Trainer (a student of the late Nuno Oliveira) said the question had been put to Nuno, Can a horse be taught to canter backwards? He replied, "Yes, but it looks a bit like an egg beater."

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                • #28
                  It looks like a very bad pirouette canter.

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                  • #29
                    That first one is just creepy, music, camera angles and all. Why would anyone ask a horse to do that on pavement? Or on any surface? I believe that's an Akhal Teke horse. He looks miserable, poor thing.

                    Never have understood the desire to teach a horse to canter backwards.

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                    • #30
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8uQcM34Dc8

                      Guy Mclean. One of Australia's best Stock Horse trainers. Backwards canter starts about 1:06

                      Even better one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZUvT...eature=related

                      The stuff with the fire is at Equitana Asia Pacific 2008. His brother is a stunt man/ coordinator etc, and soaked the pair in fire resistance stuff. Same with the stuff in the sand arena.

                      All 4 buckskins are by the same stallion, except one of them, because he is the stallion

                      He's going to the US in September. Really suggest you go see him.

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                      • #31
                        Even the 'best' canter back is not a canter, it's a series of hops.

                        Try reading the eye witness accounts of Baucher's canter backwards for a slightly different perspective on it.

                        Re the prev video - poor horse.

                        The thing that puzzles me most is if Anky, or a lower level rider at your local schooling show, brought a horse out moving like this, in a posture like this, y'all 'd be screaming bloody murder.
                        Last edited by slc2; Jun. 18, 2009, 07:40 AM.

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                        • #32
                          Circus

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by slc2 View Post
                            . . .
                            The thing that puzzles me most is if Anky, or a lower level rider at your local schooling show, brought a horse out moving like this, in a posture like this, y'all 'd be screaming bloody murder.
                            Probably because she couldn't do this on any of her horses. They don't have the collection required for it.

                            The above is not something I'm going to argue with you about, either. NONE of her horses have enough sit or strength to move into a levade and without that, you will not get backwards canter.

                            As for the SRS, slc, there are FOUR schools of horsemanship and the SRS is only one of them. Just because something is not advocated in the SRS does not mean that is it not "correct". And by that I mean "traditional". All the schools except the SRS do the Spanish Walk.

                            The SRS is my school of choice, but it's not the only one.

                            I do agree that it looks like an egg beater, regardless of who does it. Not my movement of choice

                            My 2 cents
                            Eileen
                            Mad Mare™ Studio
                            Custom Swarovski®, Czech glass and gemstone browbands in Circlet, Diadem and Tiara styles. Matching stock pins, bracelets and belts.
                            http://MadMare.com

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                            • #34
                              For those of you that own Harry Boldt's outstanding book "Das Dressurpferd" (huge black book, came out late 70s/early 80s), there is a very impressive picture in there of a movement called "canter backwards on three legs", with a horse in a rather nice, open frame through his poll, and truly amazing "sit" in his backend while the rider actually slightly leans forward to take pressure off the back. I don't have the book here so can't look up name of horse and rider, but it's a most impressive image.

                              The movement itself is something my grand father often described doing as part of their training. He was a Reiterregiment I cavalry officer at Trakehnen prior too WWII. I guess something like that comes in very handy in combat.
                              www.trakehners-international.com
                              www.fontana-syndikat.de

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                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Maren View Post
                                . . .
                                The movement itself is something my grand father often described doing as part of their training. He was a Reiterregiment I cavalry officer at Trakehnen prior too WWII. I guess something like that comes in very handy in combat.
                                My trainer was taught by Maj. Bela Buttykay -- I wonder if she's seen this movement in person or had him speak to her about it. Gonna ask her

                                Eileen
                                Mad Mare™ Studio
                                Custom Swarovski®, Czech glass and gemstone browbands in Circlet, Diadem and Tiara styles. Matching stock pins, bracelets and belts.
                                http://MadMare.com

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Well, all of those horses look pretty strange, haha. And I'm pretty sure slc's right that everyone would scream bloody murder if we actually saw footage of some dressage star doing this (or of a novice really). It looks pretty strenuous, but I suppose a good trainer could keep the horse from getting too upset while learning the movement. Most of the horses in these videos look a bit irritated with the whole thing (though not all of them).

                                  Also, that horse in the first video is an akhal teke, not an ASB, at least that's what it says in the description = )

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by mandalea View Post
                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8uQcM34Dc8

                                    Guy Mclean. One of Australia's best Stock Horse trainers. Backwards canter starts about 1:06

                                    Even better one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZUvT...eature=related

                                    The stuff with the fire is at Equitana Asia Pacific 2008. His brother is a stunt man/ coordinator etc, and soaked the pair in fire resistance stuff. Same with the stuff in the sand arena.

                                    All 4 buckskins are by the same stallion, except one of them, because he is the stallion

                                    He's going to the US in September. Really suggest you go see him.
                                    That was a trip... thanks for sharing the link!
                                    \"For all those men who say, \"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free,\" here\'s an update for you: Nowadays 80% of women are against marriage. Why? Because women realize it\'s not worth buying an entire pig just to get a little sausage.\"-

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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by willowoodstables View Post
                                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZygPF1k7YV8&NR=1

                                      This horse does it a little better. Interestingly, I believe the horse in the first video is an American Saddlebred. The first reported horse to canter backwards was Belle Beach,also an ASB, trained by Tom Bass, an African American former slave.

                                      AND the really first canter backwards was also owned and trained by Mr. Bass, his family mule Mr. Potts when Tom was a young'un.

                                      A most interesting read..Tom Bass, Black Horseman.
                                      I don't believe Mr. Bass was the first; certainly Baucher was well known for it. I can't recall hearing of it before him, but perhaps...

                                      And the horse in the first video is clearly marked an Akhal Teke, not/no relation to, a Saddlebred. Tom Bass trained and showed almost 100 years ago and I am not aware of any videos of him riding -wish I could find something.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        The guy in the couryard scene is Bartabas, the trainer of the circus troupe Zingaro. It was part of a VERY weird movie he made (only available in french). Very. Very very very weird. He's a terrible actor. Anyway. It had lots of horsey circus stuff in it. (And a 19th century horse butcher (as in meat preparation) scene (staged, but with real horse meat). Can't recall the title.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          I would love to hear an explanation of how on earth a backwards canter could be useful in combat. Or anywhere else.

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