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Thoughts on this mare as well?

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  • 7 Time Year End Tr L champion?

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      I have leased in the past and am leasing now, I just find that emotionally it is not worth it for me. My first lease was ripped out from under me when I started really riding him and getting him going (was a pretty pasture ornament prior). Owners suddenly got jealous and took him back. I had only been leasing him for three months, but had quickly formed a bond with him. Second lease there were too many people with too many different riding styles leasing the same horse, and I just ended up very frustrated. Now I have been leasing a draft gelding since March. I am constantly being reminded that he is not mine and he will never be mine. I don't think the owner is doing it on purpose (or at least I hope not), but it is still depressing. I haven't been able to ride him in three weeks now. I think he either has PSSM, head shaking syndrome, or maybe an EPM flair (had it as a yearling). Owner wants to wait until she is back home before doing anything.

      I put the financial investment and time into these horses and then I don't get to reap the end rewards. In the end they go back to their owner.

      I guess I am just kind of over leasing. Lessons alone are great and all, but just taking lessons is like just going to class and not doing any homework or studying in between. How are you to progress if you never practice?
      Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
      The Blog

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        Originally posted by Crockpot View Post
        I wasn't sure what to think about being 7 time year end champion at the same level. In 7 years why didn't they move up?
        Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
        The Blog

        Comment


        • Skye,

          You don't have to explain yourself. We can give advice and our opinion, but in the final analysis one has to try not to live the consequences of other people's decisions.

          What I mean is you have no idea whether you'll look back at this decision with a smile or with regret. None of us are psychic. So the best you can do is to follow your heart and make your best decision. The way I see it I want to be able to own my own mistakes when they happen. For me a worse regret would be letting someone talk me into or out of something and then I regret the decision.

          So do what will make YOU happy. Be honest with YOURSELF about your needs, your desires, your concerns, and then pursue that thing that will bring you joy and satisfaction.

          Paula
          He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

          Comment


          • I haven't read the entire thread, so apologies if this has been answered already, but, OP, do you know what your priorities are?

            You say you want to show 2nd level dressage and be somewhat competitive at it. Great. However, there is a chain of decisions that would be the most likely course to bring you to that goal. You seem to not want to follow that path. Okay, then showing at 2nd isn't your number one goal.

            Figure out what you want most. If being competitive at second level is truly your goal (and this is doable with a cheap horse) then say that and listen to the advice. If it's more of a pipe dream, a - "yeah, that would be nice" - sort of thing, then by all means buy whatever you like and go from there.

            Personally, while I like this mare more than the other, I doubt she would be the horse to take you to second level. Could she get there eventually? Probably... with a lot of work and a good rider, and even then I doubt she would score very well. Mediums will likely be difficult for her, and she may never develop decent self-carriage. Do you want to carry her around the ring? Are you currently a good rider?

            Now, if you like her but don't mind selling her when she begins to find the work to be difficult, then buying may be an option. However, that's a chunk of change that you could be spending on leasing a horse with actual dressage training and taking lessons on him... or simply taking more lessons on the horse you have. Realistically, if you truly want to break your 2nd level cherry, then that's what you should do.

            Comment


            • If you are serious about dressage I would pass on this mare. She looks like a great pleasure/ trail horse and shoould be able to do training and first level.

              If you want to go up the levels, a good sound TB would be better if funds are limited.

              Comment


              • Not all leases are doomed. Maybe I got lucky, but I've been leasing "my" mare for 3 years now. I started as a lesson student, this mare was the instructor/BOs personal dressage horse, occassionally used in lessons. The BO bought a couple more REALLY nice dressage horses, then she had a baby and stopped teaching lessons. She wanted to keep her mare in work, so we worked out a lease deal, and I started taking lessons from HER instructor on the mare. Best thing I ever did.

                Moral of the story? Befriend someone with too many dressage horses and not enough time.

                Comment


                • Maybe these haven't been the right leases? Not every lease is month-to-month. Many are for a longer term like 6 months or a year. But those sort generally want you to get insurance on the horse and/or cover all veterinary expenses. If you're up for buying a horse, that should be something you're up for lease-wise too. The $3,000-4,000 you're thinking of spending on some not-right, too green, weird breed/built, low-level at best "project" could instead be $2,000 towards a lease of a quality, made horse that could really help you learn plus $1,000 for insurance and maintenance on that nice horse. And at the end of year, instead of being frustrated with nothing to show and yet another horse (or 2 or 3) in and out the revolving door-- you'd have gotten somewhere and perhaps THEN you'd be in better shape to go shopping.

                  I can't remember every horse you've had or which were leases and purchases (I pop into your blog sometimes but I don't follow all the time) but aside from your lovely appaloosa mare (who at some point you got frustrated with and leased? No?) every horse you've had has been really, really unsuitable. For all different reasons. Maybe that's a sign that either you haven't figured out what you really need or you're not able to find it on your own. Even on this thread (and your blog) you vacillate on what it is you want from day to day.

                  You seem to really like your trainer. Why isn't she networking to find you a horse to lease? She must have other clients and connections. If she's been around, she knows what horses have been around "on the circuit" and might be available and right for you. If you're happy with her and want to remain her client, have her be active in this process.

                  I see you making the same mistake over and over and over. Don't you wonder why you've spent years being frustrated and can never seem to find the right horse and have gone through so many when other people seem to have one that is just what they want and they ride and enjoy themselves? It's not magic. They were frank with themselves about what they needed and could handle and they either knew enough to shop for it or knew enough to know they DIDN'T and had a professional help. But at the base level they were honest with themselves about their capabilities, needs, and wants.
                  ~Veronica
                  "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                  http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                  Comment


                  • Pulled from your blog post from July 22:

                    "They gave me pretty much the exact same advice that my trainer gave me, that maybe I should just get a dead broke campaigner to work through the levels with."

                    People are telling you what to do, you're just not listening.

                    Comment


                    • IMHO - an experienced 2nd level rider wanting a project horse is different than an Intro rider who wants to train up a green/unsuitable horse + green rider BOTH up to 2nd.

                      If your honest to goodness goal is to become proficient at 2nd level - look for a horse that you can hone your skills with. This may be an older, needs maintenance horse that you can only lease for a period. Master your craft and build your toolbox for a year or so, THEN you may have the tools to take on a project and getting up to 2nd.

                      What's the saying - green plus green makes black and blue? Those blues they refer to aren't blue ribbons. If your goal is showing, stack the deck in your favor. Without a suitable horse who can help you learn the tricks, you'll just keep beating your head against a brick wall.

                      And remember, it costs just as much to keep a crappy horse as it does a nice horse. My BO continually reminded me of this when I was shopping. I'm a hardcore bargain hunter, but in the end - she was right - I spent a bit more and got a much higher quality horse.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        Originally posted by GoForAGallop View Post
                        Pulled from your blog post from July 22:

                        "They gave me pretty much the exact same advice that my trainer gave me, that maybe I should just get a dead broke campaigner to work through the levels with."

                        People are telling you what to do, you're just not listening.
                        And then I have gone on to state numerous times that I can not afford such a type of horse. That type of horse goes for $6000+ around here. I discussed that with my trainer and she was helping me find the next best thing. We have discussed at length what is available in my price range and I understand that I am going to have to do work with whatever horse I get.
                        Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
                        The Blog

                        Comment


                        • It is possible to find a very seasoned, safe, good horse (pony club mount stepping down, owner off to college, starter horse that gets passed from barn to barn) within your budget. Often a care lease (meaning no lease fee). But it also often requires connections/knowing people/talking to people. Those heart of gold horses don't get posted on equine.com and CL. They get passed along through word of mouth. This is where the involvement of a well-connected trainer is invaluable. I can tick of loads of these in my area, some that are ready for their new rider now. But none would be discoverable except through word of mouth. People who have these horses are choosy about where they go and sometimes would rather keep them/let them sit than send them out to someone random. So to get one you have to board at a safe place and have a reputation for taking good care of your horses. AND have the connections to find these horses. So... I'd be having a talk with your trainer since you're so loyal and want to stick with her. Get her enlisted in finding you a suitable lease horse. She has to train you on it and work with you, it's in her best interest in a lot of ways to see you suitably mounted.
                          ~Veronica
                          "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                          http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                          Comment


                          • Check out the Irish sport Horse I posted. They might be open to an offer.
                            I got one horse for a third of her asking price

                            ETA I had decided that while I liked the horse she wasn't worth the asking price. I didn't want to insult the seller and didn't make the offer. The seller later contacted me with the lower price
                            Last edited by carolprudm; Aug. 18, 2013, 08:41 AM. Reason: add
                            I wasn't always a Smurf
                            Penmerryl Sophie RIDSH
                            "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                            The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Skyedragon View Post
                              And then I have gone on to state numerous times that I can not afford such a type of horse. That type of horse goes for $6000+ around here. I discussed that with my trainer and she was helping me find the next best thing. We have discussed at length what is available in my price range and I understand that I am going to have to do work with whatever horse I get.
                              Right, not for under $6000. Because as mentioned above, these are horses that are passed from loving lease home to loving lease home, and are found through word of mouth.

                              I also don't believe that, leaving out "campaigner", you can't find dead broke with a solid w/t/c for your budget. ($3.5k? $4k?) You're just not considering the right options or looking in the right places. My local horse dealer/lesson barn has probably 50 dead broke camp ponies coming back for their "end of summer" auction, and all but the fanciest will go for under $3k. And I'm in an EXPENSIVE area, state and more local-wise. You've pooh-poohed the QHs/Paints that are cleaning up at your local shows, but those are what you should be looking at. A QH with a good mind and a pound of athleticism won't have an issue getting to second level. May not be winning champ at every show, but you'll be there in a lot shorter time and have a lot easier go of it than with that big draft mare.

                              Granted, I know nothing about Michigan geography, but look at:

                              This guy, who gets a "3" for temperament, has some lovely moments in his video with a rider who isn't doing him too many favors, and is billed as a solid beginner trail horse:
                              http://www.equine.com/horses-for-sal...d-2826167.html

                              Or, since you like mares, this lady is also a "3" and while she's a bit of a plain jane, I can tell just by watching the video that she's incredibly kind:
                              http://www.equine.com/horses-for-sal...d-2918249.html

                              Another thought: If your trainer has admitted that she can only get you to training level, why is she helping you shop for a 2nd level horse? I worry about her ability to judge what horse 2nd level will be easy for, and what horse it will be a giant struggle for.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by GoForAGallop View Post
                                A QH with a good mind and a pound of athleticism won't have an issue getting to second level. May not be winning champ at every show, but you'll be there in a lot shorter time and have a lot easier go of it than with that big draft mare.
                                I wouldn't choose either of those (linked) horses as a dressage prospect

                                Comment


                                • OP, you sound like you have an idea of what will work for you, and I think you will know the right horse when he/she comes along. Wait for it, and don't jump on something which you don't feel right about, you'll know him when you see him, I believe. I've often had horses which were beyond my current skill set when I got them, and although I've had years and years of experience with different horses, I'm also smart enough to know when to find help with a horse, and how to find the right people to support me and be involved with what I am doing with the horse in different ways.

                                  Look for a horse with a good work ethic, built for the job you want him to do, and a kind eye, and the horses who you have looked at yet really aren't that, so just keep looking. If he needs training you can find the right people to help you out with him. Your trainer sounds fine for what you are trying to do right now, and you will know when you need to find someone else who can take you further.

                                  As folks pointed out, there are some deals to be had, with kids going off to college and forced sales, so don't be afraid to make a low offer, and don't be afraid to look a bit above your current budget to see if you can find a deal. If you get a no, just keep on looking.

                                  I think its fine, and really good to look for not only what you need now but with an eye for the future work you will want to do and put into the horse. Good luck.
                                  My warmbloods have actually drunk mulled wine in the past. Not today though. A drunk warmblood is a surly warmblood. - WildandWickedWarmbloods

                                  Comment


                                  • dup, sorry.
                                    My warmbloods have actually drunk mulled wine in the past. Not today though. A drunk warmblood is a surly warmblood. - WildandWickedWarmbloods

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by alto View Post
                                      I wouldn't choose either of those (linked) horses as a dressage prospect
                                      I'd take either of them long before the heavy, downhill draft mare! They were on the first page of the "Michigan, <$3000" equine.com search I did, and were ones with good temperament ratings and video. I suspect if anyone did an iota more of searching, better prospects would appear.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        Temperament is not everything either. I could probably get a very calm QH or Paint very cheap or even free, but that does not mean that they would be suitable for dressage. My Appaloosa mare was very calm, even saint like considering the crazy things I did with her (frequently riding down the side of a busy road bareback to get to the trail head comes to mind). But I could never get her to consistently canter so we would have been perpetually stuck at Intro. The draft cross mare is very quiet, and has a personality that I love too. I feel very safe around her and on her.
                                        Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
                                        The Blog

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          I may go see this filly:

                                          video

                                          Picture

                                          Picture

                                          4 year old TB filly, been off the track for 3 months. Supposedly was too quiet to be competitive and never did make it into a race.
                                          Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
                                          The Blog

                                          Comment

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