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Thoughts on this mare as well?

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  • I'll say it again but I know it's pointless. Don't buy either of these horses. Find a skilled trainer and invest the money in lessons. I don't want to comment on your specific trainer but a good trainer who is appropriate for you, at your level should have suitable lesson/half lease horses that can help you build the foundation you need right now. Your trainer can have the sun rising and falling on her every move but if she doesn't have good teaching horses she's not a match for what you really need right now.

    If you insist on buying something, but the most re-saleable horse for your market because I all but guarantee that within 6 months something with be "wrong" with the match or you'll be looking to switch disciplines or there will be a soundness issue you can't afford/care to dig into fully, or SOMETHING and you'll be looking to sell/unload whatever horse it is that you buy. The truth is, you aren't skilled enough to really assess suitability. You keep buying horses with glaring holes or that are pretty patently not what you're actually in need of. You don't have the skills to retrain or make up a green horse. You don't have the budget to maintain an older campaigner who needs maintenance. You don't have the budget to buy a nice made horse. Worst of all... you aren't truthful with yourself about your limitations.

    If there's something you actually need to buy, it's someone's been there, done that not so fancy but safe horse. He's going to be older to be in your price range. Who will probably need 2x/year hock injections and maybe more so you need to budget and save up for that first because even the made packer is going to be of no use to you if you can't keep him maintained.

    Let me also get out on the record... I am speaking as someone who herself is chock full of limitations. I also don't have the skill to retrain a horse or do a greenie on my own. I am not god's gift to riding-- far from it. I also don't have the budget to buy something fancy and made. I am not flipping OTTBs or finding the Rox Dene needle in a haystack or winning year end awards. I am not Reed Kessler. But I am HONEST with myself about my limitations and true needs. I can realistically budget for what it takes to maintain an older/made horse and I am willing to spend what it takes to keep him well maintained. I can be realistic about my budget, goals, needs, skills, and abilities.

    Your trainer needs to be straight with you, or else maybe you need to find someone who will. You're constantly frustrated and getting nowhere because you make poor decision after poor decision and never learn... and no one else ever tries to intervene. You're going to continue to be frustrated until you get realistic. The morgan and the draft cross are both ill suited for you (not for dressage necessarily, for you). If you can't see why, that's the major problem-- not them.

    Please take this in the spirit of construction criticism, spend the money on IMPROVING YOU because that's where the money is best spent.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

    Comment


    • Originally posted by alto View Post
      Why this notion that a dressage horse can't gallop on the beach, go out on the trails, jump stadium, go cross country, be a FUN horse!
      Yup, ask any eventer!

      OP have you considered an Irish Draught Sport Horse?

      http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse...rse_id=1853799

      "Very sad sale forced by busy college student, MUST GO SOON, please make an offer"
      I wasn't always a Smurf
      Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
      "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
      The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Skyedragon View Post
        This horse is for sale by a friend of my trainer. However, from what I have gathered from talking to people that know the owner and the horse she has had even less work done than Sydney and is three times the price. http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/grd/3995925821.html
        and a lot more potential
        I wasn't always a Smurf
        Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
        "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
        The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by gr8fulrider
          My current trainer is perfectly suited for my level right now. We have discussed if/when I become solid at Training about moving to a different trainer in the area.
          Is this the OP on a different user name? I'm confused... because the OP has said the exact same thing.
          ~Veronica
          "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
          http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

          Comment


          • I think you need to adjust the "what i am looking for" criteria if the posts above are indicative of who you are as a rider right now.

            I would toss the criteria of "ability to do x level" and instead focus on "safe and sane for timid rider"

            once you work past your fear issues (not easy to do and i commend you for working on it) then you can upgrade to a horse with more dressage talent


            i would honestly suggest leasing - that way if you are a one horse person you wont get stuck with a horse that you grow out of and no ability to have two.


            good luck

            Comment


            • Ditto mbm. I'd also go one step further and say for now, ride the mare you're riding. Save that $$ that you would have spent on board and build your budget. I've seen several QH/appendix types that are in the 5-7K range, solid 1st with ability for more, and level headed user-friendly multi-purpose horses. From the sounds of it the mare may not be 100% on the market, anyway (from reading your blog...).

              If I were you, I'd stop looking at green horses. They're not going to help with timidity issues. Not even a little bit.

              Where in Michigan are you? I know of several barns with lesson horses and good trainers.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Skyedragon View Post
                She was w/t/c in the video, no she didn't do any flying lead change in the video, yes she does them under saddle with her owner. She and I have more than enough things to work on at the walk and the trot before we start working on the canter together.
                I never said she did FLCs in the video. You mentioned that she already has her flying lead changes and "they came so naturally to her it was freaky."

                My comment was based on the quality of gait and balance I saw in the video and my doubts that the mare could execute them to any degree that would be acceptable for dressage.

                But you've seen her do them, so you're the expert in that area.

                Good luck in whatever you do.
                __________________________
                "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                the best day in ten years,
                you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

                Comment


                • Originally posted by vxf111 View Post
                  Is this the OP on a different user name? I'm confused... because the OP has said the exact same thing.
                  Sorry-- I accidentally posted that. It was supposed to be in quotes and I pressed the wrong buttons.

                  Anyway, what I was going to say was that I strongly disagree that the trainer is appropriate. The OP said she was fine at "this level" but they would talk about changing after training level. I can't imagine any trainer who is not suitable for anything beyond training level is suitable for a rider "at this level" on a dead-green horse. If she doesn't have something suitable for the OP to ride, then she should cowboy up and find her a situation where she can thrive and work toward her goals.

                  The trainer has a track record of presiding over all of these heartbreaks and looks like she's pointing the OP into another. It sucks for OP. She's gotten a raw deal and in spite of it all she still wants to ride, which shows dedication. This, however, is a train wreck waiting to happen. Not because the cute and lovable pink (love the color) draft cross can't eventually get to 2nd with excellent training. Because no horse is getting there in this educational environment.

                  I hate seeing hard-working people who love horses get trapped in this cycle when this is such a fun, rewarding sport and we're all in it to be happy.

                  Edited to say: No, it's not the OP under a different user name. I'm a 40-something who has done just about every English discipline and everything the OP hopes to do. I'm not naturally gifted and I make up for it by getting high-quality instruction and listening to my trainers. I think the quality of education is the biggest variable for us adult amateurs.
                  Last edited by gr8fulrider; Aug. 16, 2013, 11:22 AM.
                  Shut up! You look fine! --Judybigredpony
                  Ms. Brazil

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by vxf111 View Post
                    Is this the OP on a different user name? I'm confused... because the OP has said the exact same thing.

                    Too funny - a quick username search would reveal this poster as the very nice owner of the delightful & talented Brazilian Wedding
                    Wander over to Eventing for some recent photos


                    Apologies in advance for any "alots" as the ad's are blocking access to many posting features

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by alto View Post
                      Too funny - a quick username search would reveal this poster as the very nice owner of the delightful & talented Brazilian Wedding
                      Wander over to Eventing for some recent photos


                      Apologies in advance for any "alots" as the ad's are blocking access to many posting features
                      I know. That's what I was so confused. It seemed very much to NOT be the OP and I couldn't figure out why on earth someone who wasn't the OP was parroting the OP's same words on this thread. It was weird.
                      ~Veronica
                      "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                      http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by alto View Post
                        Too funny - a quick username search would reveal this poster as the very nice owner of the delightful & talented Brazilian Wedding
                        Wander over to Eventing for some recent photos


                        Apologies in advance for any "alots" as the ad's are blocking access to many posting features
                        Shucks. In fairness the recent photos are of my trainer competing her. I am preparing to event in the fall. But I've got my own modest successes in eventing and dressage.

                        I would like to see OP grin as broadly as I was grinning with that lovely 1/2 leased OTTB dressage horse, who belongs to a very good trainer who was generous enough to share him with me.

                        And that nice 13-year-old horse schooling 2nd level with potential for more was priced at around $3000 at the time in our relatively expensive area. He was a bit nervous but a less beautiful but calmer horse is absolutely realistic for someone who is ready to take that step and buy. Another plus about good trainers is they always know where the nice horses are.
                        Last edited by gr8fulrider; Aug. 16, 2013, 12:00 PM.
                        Shut up! You look fine! --Judybigredpony
                        Ms. Brazil

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Skyedragon View Post
                          This horse is for sale by a friend of my trainer. However, from what I have gathered from talking to people that know the owner and the horse she has had even less work done than Sydney and is three times the price. http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/grd/3995925821.html
                          From what you're written you don't want a green horse. This is a green horse.

                          Paula
                          He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                          Comment


                          • I don't have anything constructive to add but have been following the thread and wish Skyedragon all the best

                            But this statement in the Grand Rapids CL ad struck me as remarkable -

                            "...and her mother was a Glass-Ed 7 time year end training level champion."

                            I don't know what Glass-ED is, but 7 Time Year End Tr L champion? Imagine all the poor souls starting their Tr L show seasons year after year, hoping that THIS is the year that mare finally moves up, retires, or changes jobs

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              I have been with my current trainer since March. I am NOT SWITCHING TRAINERS. Just because my trainer doesn't have lesson horses available does not make her any less of a trainer. A LOT of trainers in my area don't, I am also limited by my work schedule, not many trainers around here want to be starting a lesson at 8 o'clock at night. Thankfully my current trainer is willing to work with that. She is mostly retired at this point and gives myself and a couple other women lessons once a week as she still enjoys being involved in the sport and being around horses. It has been working out just fine and I have learned a lot and have progressed a lot. When I first started taking lessons I couldn't not throw myself at every fence and didn't much like the looks of anything more than 6 inches off the ground. With the help of my trainer end of July I went to my first hunter/jumper show where we ended up high point in the baby beginner/cross rail division. A year ago I don't think I could have done that.

                              I am also not sure where people are getting that I have some huge fear that I need to work through. Just because I have decided that I don't really have the guts to canter around a cross country course with solid fences or rides some wild and spooky horse makes me a fearful person?
                              Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
                              The Blog

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                Originally posted by lovey1121 View Post
                                I don't have anything constructive to add but have been following the thread and wish Skyedragon all the best

                                But this statement in the Grand Rapids CL ad struck me as remarkable -

                                "...and her mother was a Glass-Ed 7 time year end training level champion."

                                I don't know what Glass-ED is, but 7 Time Year End Tr L champion? Imagine all the poor souls starting their Tr L show seasons year after year, hoping that THIS is the year that mare finally moves up, retires, or changes jobs
                                GLASS-ED is our local dressage club.
                                Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
                                The Blog

                                Comment


                                • Does that dun mare (WB) have any QH in her? she looks pure QH to me.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    Originally posted by SendenHorse View Post
                                    Does that dun mare (WB) have any QH in her? she looks pure QH to me.
                                    Well sort of, she is an Appaloosa x Trakehner cross.
                                    Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
                                    The Blog

                                    Comment


                                    • I like her. I have a short necked, downhill, heavy-built mare and she's scored well at 2nd, schooling 3rd and has confirmed her changes. She's athletic (she can "sit" well) and willing enough (priceless temperment!) to work through conformation issues. We have been in full training though! I know I couldn't get her there myself at all, but would completely enjoy trying to and her just the same if we couldn't afford the training.

                                      Comment


                                      • Congrats on your show.

                                        Originally posted by Skyedragon View Post
                                        I am also not sure where people are getting that I have some huge fear that I need to work through. Just because I have decided that I don't really have the guts to canter around a cross country course with solid fences or rides some wild and spooky horse makes me a fearful person?
                                        You mentioned earlier that you weren't ready to canter your lease horse. That might be timidity, that might be honesty, but if I were you I wouldn't be looking for a green horse. Look for something that's already going well under saddle w/t/c (preferably with a leg yield and beginnings of shoulder-in). If you want something that's solid to canter around in an open field, your odds will increase if you look for the 12-15yo range and not in the 4-8yo range.

                                        Green horses tend to be more affordable, sure, but you'll have to pay the same $$ in board no matter what. It's worth spending more upfront for something you can comfortably ride now, no matter if it has lower "potential" than something fancy and green.

                                        The reason people (myself included) are recommending lessons with a trainer with school horses is that the horse you (general you) need at the beginning of your dressage career (intro/TL) may not be the horse you need a year later after lots of lessons. You can delay spending some serious money until you have that serious money to spend.

                                        Comment


                                        • I am also limited by my work schedule, not many trainers around here want to be starting a lesson at 8 o'clock at night. Thankfully my current trainer is willing to work with that. She is mostly retired at this point and gives myself and a couple other women lessons once a week
                                          This is a pretty good argument for a 1/2 lease on a horse that has competed at your goal level and that someone is keeping tuned up as you learn. Green horses take tons of time and consistency.

                                          I'll drop this. You seem to want the mare and the training situation you're in. Perhaps this thread has been useful in showing you what you want.

                                          Be safe. Very green horses often test you more when you ask for more and get fresher when they're more fit. This horse already tested you at a show so you should be prepared for her not to be some saint on the trails but the mortal, green horse she is.

                                          Training any green horse is a huge responsibility. One thing I love about horses is they keep us honest and humble. Do right, they go right. Don't, they don't. Would that human relationships were so simple! You'll find that horse people learn to be as forthright as our animals. Spend enough time around 1200-lb creatures with whom rationalization gets no results and one picks up their attitudes.
                                          Shut up! You look fine! --Judybigredpony
                                          Ms. Brazil

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