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Thoughts on this mare as well?

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  • #81
    Does her owner tie her in a rope halter while she is being trailered? I hate to ask but...ugh...a safety knot is helpful but not foolproof...I am sorry to make this post about halters but if that's all her owner has then that is what she is shipped in...maybe buy the owner a gift of a regular halter for the mare's sake! (sorry to go off on a tangent but that bugs me)

    Comment


    • #82
      That is so amazing and wonderful that lovely horse had great last years with you. Thank you for doing that. The relationship with them is so special. God bless you and that is what real horsemanship is about!

      Comment


      • #83
        Thanks, he was a very special boy. Ive made mistakes and have learned a lot from them. I think the best learning is from making those mistakes because then you never forget. This horse was worth every dollar I paid and all the money for the stem cells and surgery. He had a special place with me. I have others that I love dearly. They are part of my family but none will ever be this horse.

        Sky, dont trust anyone or any ad. This is true. But don't limit yourself either because your scared. If that's the case you will not get anywhere in this world being worried. Have a good vet check done on anything you are going to buy. Even this mare that you know the history of. I knew this horse well enough that he was never inured or lame for 4 years. I think I was meant to have him for the reason above. He got a good retirement and a happy life. If not he would have still been on the trail line and ithe show ring with tons of bute or whatever else they could have used. Sad but true. Not all people can take that risk though so be careful and take your time buying any horse and cover your basis and hopefully all will go well. Good luck
        Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

        Comment


        • #84
          Rabicon, your boy was lovely.

          OP, I remembered responding on one of your previous threads. Several of us were pretty concerned with how you were dealing with a lame horse. I mention this because of all the well-meaning enabling and encouragement here to buy a horse when I think for many reasons ownership might not be the best idea right now.
          I don't mind if you call me a snowflake, 'cause baby, I know a blizzard is coming.

          Comment


          • #85
            Originally posted by Bogie View Post
            Okay, I went and read your blog too.

            My advice to you right now is not to buy anything yet. I think you would really, really benefit from riding a horse that is a confidence builder and when you are more confident, you will likely want a different horse than you want/need today.

            If you like the draft cross mare (despite her trying to pull your arms out at the show and being rushy and spooky at home at times), you should look into free leasing her with an option to buy in six to twelve months.

            I know you feel like you know her, but having a history isn't the same thing as testing her comfort zone. For example, if she's strong at a show, she may well be very strong out on the trails and one of your criteria is to be able to hack without having a death grip on the reins. You need to take her out and trail ride her both by herself and in a group. How does she behave? Do you feel confident and comfortable on her? If you don't, then you need a horse that will allow you to expand your comfort zone. The first time I took out the draft x mare that I've got right now with a small group all she'd do is squeal and buck because she's pretty alpha. That doesn't bother me, but would it bother you? Find that out first!

            Some draft crosses (like the one I'm riding now) are smart enough to use their size and bulk to bully you a little. This can be exacerbated by not having the conditioning/strength to really hold themselves up -- it's hard to work correctly and they may want to revert back to how they've always gone. How does this mare react when you push her? Does she try harder? Does she shut down? Does she buck? In addition, draft crosses tend (not all, but many) to lean a bit because they were bred to pull and they are simply heavier in their front end. If trail riding and maybe hilltopping are a goal for you, it is important to see how she does both in company and up and down hills. I love, love, love to foxhunt but you need to ride a horse that is controllable, nimble and very obedient -- I think what surprises people the most when they hunt for the first time (even hilltopping) is that we move at speed across very varied terrain and we go from walk to gallop to halt sometimes in a matter of minutes. You need a horse that is not on its forehand and that won't trip over every root or you end up with your heart in your mouth (I've hunted a horse like this and it's not fun).

            FWIW, I've been riding a lot of horses over the past six months as my own TB was laid up with a check ligament injury. The chance to ride a variety of horses has been great for my riding. It's shown me where I've gotten lazy and made me work on myself. It's also cemented for me what I like/don't like in a horse.

            Don't be in such a hurry to buy.
            This is fantastic advice. You have plenty still to learn on school horses who know their job. First you learn your job. That starts with longe lessons on an experienced confidence - building horse until you can ride without reins in all three working gaits. Then ditto without stirrups. Only when you understand that body control is what keeps you safe and can control your body and calm your concerned mind will you be ready to learn the next piece: riding a horse forward into a consistent contact and executing your trainer's instructions. And only after that should you consider buying a horse, much less a green horse.

            Which brings me one tough love step beyond the good advice posted above:

            Your trainer should have worked on this and told you this. You don't seem to be getting "training" at all, but rather wishy-washy opinions on whether two green horses are suitable. Move to a barn where they focus on laying a foundation of horsemanship. There are tons of good honest lesson barns in PA. It doesn't even need to be a dressage barn. You need to develop an independent seat and competent instructors from a variety of disciplines can work with you on this.
            Shut up! You look fine! --Judybigredpony
            Ms. Brazil

            Comment


            • #86
              Can we not carry our 'things that bug us' around and call them rules, Country?
              I routinely haul, tie and function with three horses and nothing but rope halters. They are not the mark of the devil, or a sign of poor horsemanship Countrywood. Leave that 'things that bugs you' off of this thread, for heaven's sake. You went poking around on her blog looking for things to take issue with. Where's your photo album? Shall we tour your norms and mores next, and find fault and things that bug us?


              What I elect to find fault with was the mare blowing through her hands, and the suggestion, 'there's a flash for that'.

              Not the right horse, OP. NEXT.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #87
                Originally posted by Countrywood View Post
                Does her owner tie her in a rope halter while she is being trailered? I hate to ask but...ugh...a safety knot is helpful but not foolproof...I am sorry to make this post about halters but if that's all her owner has then that is what she is shipped in...maybe buy the owner a gift of a regular halter for the mare's sake! (sorry to go off on a tangent but that bugs me)
                No system is perfect either. The first time I tied my Appaloosa mare in the trailer she panicked and her safety halter didn't give. What finally did give was the snap on the rope. I have also met several horses that learned that they could break safety halters and would do so on a regular basis then take a tour of the farm. She has raised 6 babies and used rope halters on all of them without incident, I doubt I am going to change her mind now.

                Now, if this mare did become mine the first thing I would do would be buy her a nice purple regular halter, maybe get her name on it.
                Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
                The Blog

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #88
                  Originally posted by fargaloo View Post
                  Rabicon, your boy was lovely.

                  OP, I remembered responding on one of your previous threads. Several of us were pretty concerned with how you were dealing with a lame horse. I mention this because of all the well-meaning enabling and encouragement here to buy a horse when I think for many reasons ownership might not be the best idea right now.
                  Yes, seems like a lot of people had a problem with waiting to see if a horse that had never been lame before a trim and was suddenly lame after a trim was just lame from the trim and needed some time and bute to recover. Horse did recover just fine by the way, vet had nothing to say then to do what I was doing, and has since found a home with a lovely girl that adores him.
                  Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
                  The Blog

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    Thanks for not getting upset about the halter comment! ): Best of luck whatever you decide.

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Originally posted by Skyedragon View Post
                      Yes, seems like a lot of people had a problem with waiting to see if a horse that had never been lame before a trim and was suddenly lame after a trim was just lame from the trim and needed some time and bute to recover. Horse did recover just fine by the way, vet had nothing to say then to do what I was doing, and has since found a home with a lovely girl that adores him.
                      That's great news - I'm glad to see he went to a good home. But I still stand by what I wrote in the previous thread:

                      "OP, from your blog on April 1: "He continues to be lame with no end in sight.... Two circles of the arena at the walk and it was obvious he was not going to work out of it. In fact he started to feel worse, not better. Took him back into the barn and he was obviously uncomfortable just standing there. Felt really bad because I had no bute at the barn. While I don't like buting very often, last night he just looked miserable. When I went to pick up his right foot to give him is durasole treatment he just about fell on top of me. That made my back feel really good. Not." (Bolding mine).

                      From a post on April 8th in the Western Forum: "His issue is that he gets really hollow, head goes up, back goes down.... Tonight I rode him in spurs for the first time to see if a little more refinement with the ques would do anything. Discovered that he has flying lead changes! No improvement with the asking for him to lift his back though. Worked for a good 45 minutes with this before we were both getting frustrated and decided to end with some lateral work and call it good. We were both very sweaty!"

                      If what you say is true -- A WEEK after a horse is dead f'ing lame (with no real diagnosis in hand), you are putting him through, not a light ride, but a heavy-duty workout -- you either are not knowledgeable enough to have full care of a horse or you are blinding yourself to the fact that this is terrible horsemanship. Sorry, this is NOT "excellent care".

                      If you are grossly exaggerating his lameness and/or the amount of work you are doing with him, please stop posting and try to figure out why you want to get attention this way."

                      Someone has a sig line that goes something like: "Some people change their horse, their tack, their trainers but they never change themselves." Food for thought.

                      If you do decide to buy this mare, I sincerely wish both of you good luck.

                      cheers,
                      Monika
                      I don't mind if you call me a snowflake, 'cause baby, I know a blizzard is coming.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #91
                        My goodness how this thread has taken a turn for the worst in the past page and a half. It went from being all "go for it" about this mare to dragging up the past and belittling my horsemanship. What is done is done, his lameness was very strange, he went from dead lame to literally over one weekend being back to normal. He was under full supervision of a vet, so it is not up to you or anybody else to judge anything. I even posted video of him perfectly sound and people on this forums were still bashing me as a horrible person.

                        I really don't understand why I keep coming back to these forums, seems like every single thread ends the same.
                        Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
                        The Blog

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Can't feel sorry for you, lady- good luck.

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            OP -- the mare is cute. Saddle fitting will be a nightmare, but you know that. As you decide what to do, let me relay a story:

                            Friend absolutely HAD to go "get her medals." It's all she ever wanted. She had to have THE horse to get her there. Meanwhile, we were starting some very nice half-drafts under saddle. One could have done quite well -- balanced, good gaits, beautiful mover. He needed a very confident rider, which my friend was, and I encouraged her to buy him.

                            NO. Had to have the big expensive warmblood. Nothing else would do. So she got one. And eight years later, he still sits in the pasture. She has never shown him. She has bought him thousands of dollars' worth of tack, but has never really ridden him even. He is too big, too flashy, and too hot.

                            My point is: is moving up the levels really what you want? If so, go do it, but this mare is probably not the one who will do it with you. If, however, you want to enjoy dressage at the lower levels on a cute horse, buy her.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #94
                              Originally posted by katarine View Post
                              Can't feel sorry for you, lady- good luck.
                              I am not asking for pity, but dragging up the past, especially about a situation that was rough from the get-go as I had expressed numerous times on here, does nothing and helps no one.
                              Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
                              The Blog

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #95
                                Originally posted by Alex and Bodie's Mom View Post
                                OP -- the mare is cute. Saddle fitting will be a nightmare, but you know that. As you decide what to do, let me relay a story:

                                Friend absolutely HAD to go "get her medals." It's all she ever wanted. She had to have THE horse to get her there. Meanwhile, we were starting some very nice half-drafts under saddle. One could have done quite well -- balanced, good gaits, beautiful mover. He needed a very confident rider, which my friend was, and I encouraged her to buy him.

                                NO. Had to have the big expensive warmblood. Nothing else would do. So she got one. And eight years later, he still sits in the pasture. She has never shown him. She has bought him thousands of dollars' worth of tack, but has never really ridden him even. He is too big, too flashy, and too hot.

                                My point is: is moving up the levels really what you want? If so, go do it, but this mare is probably not the one who will do it with you. If, however, you want to enjoy dressage at the lower levels on a cute horse, buy her.
                                Yes, saddle fitting is going to be frustrating. Thankfully I found a good saddle fitter in the area that had been sitting right under my nose for years. Wish I had known about her services when I had my Appaloosa mare. Would have saved us both a lot of grief.
                                Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
                                The Blog

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  I guess I am the crazy one here, but I believe, (one other poster did as well), that this mare, assuming soundness, could go up the levels. I'm not saying she would be a world beater FEI or regional champion, but imo she could do it, with the right training and dedication.

                                  Her hind legs flex, she is naturally balanced, her neck set is nice, she steps right into canter from walk or near halt when free lunged.

                                  Imo, and this is no reflection on the OP because I dont' know her ability, but usually a horse does not go up the levels because of the rider. And I don't mean even that the rider lacks talent, because a mediocre rider (I am mediocre!), even a mediocre rider if applied herself diligently can also go up the levels.

                                  But the ingredient that many of us lack is consistency, discipline, total commitment to the goal. Which means horse and rider in full training or at least 3 x a week with a good trainer (unless we are advanced enough to do it ourselves, which is not the case for one starting out).

                                  It takes $ too but someone totally dedicated it will find a way to get enough $. I found out that I myself am not dedicated enough (at least at this point in my life). Seeing other people start with the goal of making it up the levels who never got there, and these were people with $ who bought expensive horses, the missing ingredient was the focus, drive, dedication and discipline.

                                  Making it up the levels in the show ring is more a sweaty marathon than a happy little sprint. The intense effort, while rewarding, is not easy or "fun", which is why many (including myself), don't put in the grunt work. It is rarely the horse that holds us back.

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    OP, you've gotten some high-quality advice about how to achieve your goals as a rider. People have responded thoughtfully after taking the time to read your questions and go back and read your blog, which provides a fairly detailed description of your experiences.

                                    Most of this advice has come from people who have taken one or more horses to your goal of second level of beyond. This is really, really good feedback, for free, from people who are trying to help you move from what you've had-- many heartbreaks without progress in years, at great expense to yourself-- to something truly rewarding. That is the exact opposite of an attack. It's help.

                                    Everyone who advised you take lessons also takes lessons. Olympic riders take lessons. Everyone who advised you to go for a made horse has ridden a made horse when their situation demanded it. This is not an attack-- people are shining a light on the only path toward advanced horsemanship.

                                    I suggest you read through your blog and look at how frustrated you've been. Then ask yourself whether you're ready to dedicate yourself to the consistent, high-quality instruction that will prevent you from having these kinds of frustrations again. Ask yourself whether you'd rather spend time developing your skills than buying and returning saddles for horses who aren't right for you (lesson horses come complete with tack), and whether you'd like to become the kind of rider who can select from a wider variety of horses because you have the expertise.

                                    In other words, ask yourself if you're more committed to hearing what you want to hear or to learning.

                                    Best of luck.
                                    Shut up! You look fine! --Judybigredpony
                                    Ms. Brazil

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #98
                                      Originally posted by Countrywood View Post
                                      I guess I am the crazy one here, but I believe, (one other poster did as well), that this mare, assuming soundness, could go up the levels. I'm not saying she would be a world beater FEI or regional champion, but imo she could do it, with the right training and dedication.

                                      Her hind legs flex, she is naturally balanced, her neck set is nice, she steps right into canter from walk or near halt when free lunged.

                                      Imo, and this is no reflection on the OP because I dont' know her ability, but usually a horse does not go up the levels because of the rider. And I don't mean even that the rider lacks talent, because a mediocre rider (I am mediocre!), even a mediocre rider if applied herself diligently can also go up the levels.

                                      But the ingredient that many of us lack is consistency, discipline, total commitment to the goal. Which means horse and rider in full training or at least 3 x a week with a good trainer (unless we are advanced enough to do it ourselves, which is not the case for one starting out).

                                      It takes $ too but someone totally dedicated it will find a way to get enough $. I found out that I myself am not dedicated enough (at least at this point in my life). Seeing other people start with the goal of making it up the levels who never got there, and these were people with $ who bought expensive horses, the missing ingredient was the focus, drive, dedication and discipline.

                                      Making it up the levels in the show ring is more a sweaty marathon than a happy little sprint. The intense effort, while rewarding, is not easy or "fun", which is why many (including myself), don't put in the grunt work. It is rarely the horse that holds us back.
                                      I think what you are saying is what the others were saying, just a little nicer, haha.
                                      Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
                                      The Blog

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        Originally posted by Skyedragon View Post
                                        I really don't understand why I keep coming back to these forums, seems like every single thread ends the same.
                                        I know I'm repeating myself, but you need to be realistic about where the problem lies.

                                        There are a lot of experienced horsepeople on this board.

                                        And when you post things like "the mare has flying lead changes" and you're showing her w/t ...
                                        your blog says horse is so lame one week he is miserable even standing up and you're doing flying lead changes (!) on him the next week ...
                                        you have canter fears and want to go up the levels and hilltopping ...

                                        Don't be surprised when those experienced horsepeople realize you have no idea what you're talking about and call you on it.
                                        __________________________
                                        "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                                        the best day in ten years,
                                        you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

                                        Comment


                                        • I also want to step in and talk about saddle fit. Saddle fitting can be difficult but I know timid riders who use saddle fit as an excuse. You'd be amazed at how little riding they do while waiting for a new saddle and how much poor training or bad horse behavior happens that is explained away by that darned saddle.
                                          http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

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