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Thoughts on this mare as well?

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  • Original Poster

    #21
    I have discussed this mare at length with my trainer, and asked her to be brutally honest with me what she thought this mare's abilities were. At first she said that she wouldn't make second level, and then I think she started to see the amount of work I am putting into this mare and said that we could possibly make it to second level.

    Another plus is this mare already has her flying lead changes. They came so naturally to her it was freaky.

    I am not sure what level you would call the club that I show with. They consider themselves "educational dresssage," and are a USDF GMO. They only offer up to second level (hince my second level goal). Everybody dresses to the nines at each show.

    Saddle fitting is going to be a bear, there is no way around that. I am currently riding her in my collegiate diploma with the extra wide gullet and it fits her nicely with enough room for me to still use my thinline half pad (love that pad). In contrast though the wintec dressage that my friend rides her in with the exact same size gullet in it sits on her like a party hat. I did have a treeless saddle for a little bit and she loved it, but I couldn't get a hand on posting in the thing. Thinking Thorowgood, Kent and Masters, or Duett for her. I ended up with a Classic with the genesis tree for my lease gelding, but it doesn't seem to sit right on him or her, despite what the saddle fitter said. I think the first order of business if I did get her would be to get a saddle fitter out to see if the Classic can be salvaged. I am rather bitter about that, haha. I didn't listen to my gut feeling and now I am stuck with a $1400 saddle.
    Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
    The Blog

    Comment


    • #22
      I think you've already made you decision

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by Skyedragon View Post
        Another plus is this mare already has her flying lead changes. They came so naturally to her it was freaky.
        Ummm ... I saw the video you posted. Are you sure she wasn't just swapping leads? Because that horse doesn't look like one that's ready for flying lead changes.

        In one of your other posts, you said you've been serious "for years" about moving up the levels. If you haven't made much progress in that time, my guess is that you're not all that serious.

        And I say that as someone who finally realized I'm not likely to put in the time, money and concentrated effort it takes to show above 1st level. I love dressage, I will continue to take lessons, and work on my riding with my horse -- who is my absolute heart and has been for 9 years. But I'm much more realistic about where we'll end up than I was 3 years ago.

        So buy this horse. Don't worry about what level she'll end up at. Just ride and enjoy her.
        __________________________
        "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
        the best day in ten years,
        you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

        Comment


        • #24
          https://www.facebook.com/jessica.f.s...0260134&type=3

          This is my stock breed paint. He was not at all what I was looking for! I looked for a year and wanted something to take me up the levels. We have lots of dressage shows around here. Local gmo and usdf. I looked for the wb that could do it. I looked up to 20k and needless to say in my area I wasn't finding one that had a brain with the movements. I didn't want a spazzing horse on my hands. I wanted one to take care of me and trust in me. One that I could trail ride and play around on and have serious dressage lessons also. When I saw this horse I just knew he was the one. My husband thought I was crazy lol. Not at all what i had been looking at or for. My goals and feelings changed when I saw him. I think we will make it to second possibly 3rd if he's got it in him. I will go for paint awards but I'm not looking at regionals etc anymore. If it happens it would be a great surprise but I'm happy and content with my handsome little stocky paint that I can trust to throw my dd on as well. Good luck and go with your gut.
          Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

          Comment


          • #25
            The link above took you to my album. He is the buckskin paint at the top of the album. .
            Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #26
              Originally posted by mp View Post
              Ummm ... I saw the video you posted. Are you sure she wasn't just swapping leads? Because that horse doesn't look like one that's ready for flying lead changes.

              In one of your other posts, you said you've been serious "for years" about moving up the levels. If you haven't made much progress in that time, my guess is that you're not all that serious.

              And I say that as someone who finally realized I'm not likely to put in the time, money and concentrated effort it takes to show above 1st level. I love dressage, I will continue to take lessons, and work on my riding with my horse -- who is my absolute heart and has been for 9 years. But I'm much more realistic about where we'll end up than I was 3 years ago.

              So buy this horse. Don't worry about what level she'll end up at. Just ride and enjoy her.
              I said that I have been wanting to work through the levels for years, BUT haven't had the horse to do it with. The mare that I lost in Jan wouldn't had made it past Intro/Training. Before that I owned a TB gelding that I was stupid and didn't get a vet check on and ended up only being pasture sound. I leased two horses and both times the lease got ended before I was able to get hardly anywhere, or had just started getting somewhere.
              Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
              The Blog

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #27
                Originally posted by rabicon View Post
                The link above took you to my album. He is the buckskin paint at the top of the album. .
                The link says content not available.
                Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
                The Blog

                Comment


                • #28
                  I am generaly not a fan of the drafty horse, but... I've been working with one for a few months now. While he is a lot of work/ a lot of horse to move around EVERY SINGLE TIME, he is quite lovely once he is in front of the leg! He looks confirmation wise a lot like the mare in your photo, but... she seems to be a better mover!! Having said that, this guy did quite well in Training and First Level at Recognized shows, with not a score under 60%, and several in the 70% at both levels. He was in the top ten at Regionals at First Level Open!!!

                  Again, not a horse I would have picked, but here it shows how a good mind can overcome A LOT!!! If you like her, go for it

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    If your trainer doesn't like her it will be an uphill battle. I think that second level is a realistic goal for someone who rides 5 days a week and takes hardcore dressage lessons on at least a biweekly basis. Even then it could take you several years to get there .

                    I'm not sure what kind of horse tops out at Intro level but if you think that's possible then maybe reconsider this horse since she does need retraining.

                    My only concern is that in my experience grumpy ears can mean a nappy horse and if you are a timid rider without a lot of experience retraining a sucked back horse you will get nowhere the first time you ask her to step forward and into the contact and she has a hissy fit. I know because my 1/2 arab mare is the queen of the grumpy face.
                    http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Skyedragon View Post
                      I said that I have been wanting to work through the levels for years, BUT haven't had the horse to do it with. The mare that I lost in Jan wouldn't had made it past Intro/Training.
                      What do you mean she "wouldn't have made it past Intro/Training?" Any horse with 4 legs can do first level -- it's lengthening, stretchy circles and leg yields, for goodness' sake. I don't care about conformation or breeding; A sound horse -- ANY sound horse -- is not PHYSICALLY limited from scoring 50% at 1st level. A sound horse that can't do this a) hasn't yet had enough training, b) has had poor/inadequate training, or c) is not being ridden well. I'm no goddess of dressage on my high horse -- I'm a crappy eventer on my off-breed horse struggling into 2nd level - but that's my fault, not hers.

                      OP, please don't take this as a dumping on -- but maybe a gentle shake. What holds us back is ourselves. I know you have had some crappy luck (my condolences on losing your mare in January), but if you want to move up the levels, you don't need to wait for the right horse to come along. Get into a good lesson program on a schoolmaster and build your toolbox. If you have more skills -- if YOU have ridden at 2nd level -- you will be able to develop and maximize the potential of any horse -- purpose-bred or off-breed. OR, buy this sweet mare and be willing to take a long and winding road as you both muddle along enjoying each other's company. But don't blame her (or the saddle, or whatever) if it doesn't happen overnight.

                      If you want to WIN at 2nd -- don't buy her. (And mp is right -- those are not flying lead changes in the video.)
                      If you want to DO 2nd level, and you like her -- get her. But getting to 2nd will be up to you, not her.

                      good luck!!
                      I don't mind if you call me a snowflake, 'cause baby, I know a blizzard is coming.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        so she doesn't look like an upper level horse - but if you are really into 'educational' dressage you should be able to do that on about anything.

                        one of my old trainers (who is an S judge), said that you can get 2nd on almost anything, altho the moves may not be super high quality, and that the work will both make the horse a better mover and preserve it's soundness over time.

                        this one looks like one that might be a good jack of all trades...perhaps not overwhelmingly excellent at any one thing, but happy to go try a bunch of different stuff.

                        depends on what you want to do.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #32
                          I guess I should have clarified. My mare had canter issues, she had never been taught to canter (run at barrels, yes, but not canter in an arena) up to the point that I had gotten her at 17. We worked really hard at the canter, but some days she would pick it up and some days it didn't matter what you did she would not. So that is what made it so we wouldn't have gotten far.

                          Also, I am not talking about the lead changes in the video, I am talking about doing canter figure eights and having her change in the middle (not with me, but her owner). I was always told that that was a flying lead change?
                          Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
                          The Blog

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Skyedragon View Post
                            I guess I should have clarified. My mare had canter issues, she had never been taught to canter (run at barrels, yes, but not canter in an arena) up to the point that I had gotten her at 17. We worked really hard at the canter, but some days she would pick it up and some days it didn't matter what you did she would not. So that is what made it so we wouldn't have gotten far.
                            Ok, but without having seen the situation, I would still argue that this is a training/riding issue, not a physical issue. I've seen standardbreds (trained to NEVER canter) transition be successful in lower-level dressage.

                            Originally posted by Skyedragon View Post
                            Also, I am not talking about the lead changes in the video, I am talking about doing canter figure eights and having her change in the middle (not with me, but her owner). I was always told that that was a flying lead change?
                            Can't comment having not seen her. Yes, what you describe is a "flying" change of lead, but dressage folks are very picky about how they teach flying changes. Unless a horse is schooled to be straight, balanced and round with a nice "jump" in the canter, the lead change tends to be unbalanced, strung-out and "front-to-back" rather than "back-to-front". There is a reason that lead changes are not taught until 3rd level (after the horse can stay balanced at counter-canter, do shoulder-in, has started collection, etc.). Unfortunately, reschooling "bad" lead changes can be tricky if the horse has been drilled in them.

                            Perhaps she does have a lovely change, but I would guess from watching her general way of moving that she is not fit or balanced enough for them yet.
                            I don't mind if you call me a snowflake, 'cause baby, I know a blizzard is coming.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              I was impressed with the video! If people got over her color, look at her gaits. She tracks under at trot and she has a lot of loft. Her canter is average but steady . She actually is an attractive horse, kind of like the old statues of strong horses and she might exell at piafe and passage. Her neck has a natural arch.

                              If she did this well at her first show, that is a good sign. The scores are pretty decent. It is better to have a horse that you can feel safe in the warm up ring and show and actually do it with then a fantasy about a better mover that might never work out.

                              I know so many amateur riders here near Wellington that bought costly well moving WB's and one a Lusitano, some even with a fair amount of training, and these people, even after many years, never showed beyond training level. So a horse you can actually ride yourself and progress in lessons with and show with and hang out on trails, sounds great. If she hits a wall at second level you can sell her and move on but she might be able to go higher imo.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #35
                                Her being "pink" (my favorite color), is just the icing on the cake!

                                I was running into a bit of a wall finding horses that had a lot of talent but with that talented seemed to come a kind of crazy or at least not ammy friendly personality. The horses that had the personality that I wanted didn't have the talent. I know that I am not a very brave rider, and that I have a lot more fun on a quiet horse than I do on one that is jumping around everywhere.
                                Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
                                The Blog

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Countrywood View Post
                                  It is better to have a horse that you can feel safe in the warm up ring and show and actually do it with then a fantasy about a better mover that might never work out.
                                  what she said!!!!

                                  i like this one better than the other mare, too....

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Countrywood, what do you mean get over her color? I love her color. I'd buy her on her color! Pink horsey!

                                    Paula
                                    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Skyedragon View Post
                                      Her being "pink" (my favorite color), is just the icing on the cake!

                                      I was running into a bit of a wall finding horses that had a lot of talent but with that talented seemed to come a kind of crazy or at least not ammy friendly personality. The horses that had the personality that I wanted didn't have the talent. I know that I am not a very brave rider, and that I have a lot more fun on a quiet horse than I do on one that is jumping around everywhere.
                                      Sounds exceptionally sensible. Buy a horse you can ride. Better yet, buy a horse you'd WANT to ride.

                                      Paula
                                      He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Pass. That shoulder is always going to be that straight, and she is always going to be that downhill. She is 6 years old. I'm sure she's pleasant, she looks pleasant...but low energy big heavy horses are great for peddling down the trail- NOT for developing your skills to run up the ladder.
                                        Sure, any horse can do First. But why not find something lighter in their own loafers that kinda wants to get up, pick up and go a bit? It's going to be hella work for her to lift that body and carry it- I think you can do better, not just do good enough. I don't think she's good enough.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Countrywood View Post
                                          I was impressed with the video! If people got over her color, look at her gaits. She tracks under at trot and she has a lot of loft. Her canter is average but steady . She actually is an attractive horse, kind of like the old statues of strong horses and she might exell at piafe and passage. Her neck has a natural arch.
                                          Did you see the same video that I did? That horse was nowhere near tracking up at the trot. She has a rather short neck, a steep shoulder and a downhil build. That is NOT the conformation that excels at piaffe and passage, or even trot and canter lengthenings -- and that's just first level.

                                          If she did this well at her first show, that is a good sign. The scores are pretty decent.
                                          Intro A and B are w/t tests. Nothing wrong with that, but as they say in the financial industry, past performance is no indicator of future results. Not at that level. Ask me how I know this.

                                          OP, if you are not a brave rider, a nice quiet mount might be just the ticket. If you really like this horse, then get her, learn on her and then you'll be ready for more talent.

                                          Or you could spend that money on lessons riding school horses and learn more about the mechanics of riding.

                                          Your choice. But as fargaloo said, either way, it's up to you to push yourself and put in the time and effort.
                                          __________________________
                                          "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                                          the best day in ten years,
                                          you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

                                          Comment

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