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Big horses and heat - what do you do?

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Barn Cat View Post
    Why not wrap his legs? I'm not a fan of wrapping legs for flat work, but instructor wants him wrapped because he is so big and he had a tendon issue. I wrap the front and unwrap as soon as the ride is over.
    I live in southern NM - Baby its hot here! and sometimes like now in the summer its a little humid also. My very big horse gets worked exclusively in the morning before the day heats up. He gets out 6 days a week with a turnout in the RP on the rest day.
    He gets polos or boots on his legs for working - but not the neoprene type because they get very sweaty. He also has walk breaks during his workout. Workout lasts approx. 30 - 40 mins.

    He gets a nice shower with cool water after the workout and occasionally an alcohol brace.

    He gets powdered electrolytes in his water trough on a daily basis and he drinks and pees a lot in the summer. His sweating has improved ten-fold by giving him a salt brick in his feed trough and the electrolytes.

    When I rode in Portugal years ago it used to get unbelievably hot in certain months. Some of the horses needed to be ridden anyway as we had many to work. Those who worked in the heat got 2 "short" workouts a day instead of 1. In other words if a horse got worked at 11am (it was already too hot) he would work 15-20 mins. Then we would pull him out at the end of the day (evening)and work him another 15-20 mins. This was great for the babies because they were constantly out and quickly got used to the ethic. Was also great for the horses coming back into work for obvious reasons.
    Don't know if you have the time for this but it is one solution you could try.

    Electrolytes are a non negotiable must IMO.
    Last edited by belgianWBLuver; Jul. 24, 2013, 01:03 PM.

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    • #22
      I have a big horse and he gets both electrolytes in his feed as well as salt to lick out in the pasture (he's out 24/7). Also, we make sure to do a long warmup and cool down (he gets better as we get more riding in and he gets fitter but right now we've been off for over a month so long warmup/cooldowns it is!) and then afterward, he gets hosed down until I'm sure he's comfortable.

      I've also taken to tacking him up in the barn aisle (natural breezeway most of the time) or whichever tie post is shadiest at the time (basically depending on wherever feels cooler). That and I've cut back on the amount of tack I'm putting on (like...I am not putting on the breastplate at the moment because it's not an absolute must-have and I try to pick the lightest saddlepad to use). I do actually use a girth cover (because he gets rubs if I don't) even though its more fabric-y and thus probably warmer.

      Oh yeah, and I've roached his mane to keep it off his neck. That might be a bit extreme for some.
      The Trials and Jubilations of a Twenty-Something Re-rider
      Happy owner of Kieran the mostly-white-very-large-not-pony.

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      • #23
        Hot and humid summers are a fact of life where I live May-September. It's supposed to get into triple digits today and tomorrow with humidity anywhere from 40-60%.

        My mare has a salt block year round. I put electrolytes in her Smartpak May through September. I ride in a covered arena all summer. If she's a little sweaty when I get her out of the pasture, I rinse her down with cold water before I ride. I rinse her down really well after I ride and then stick her in front of a strong fan. By the time she dries her skin is cool to the touch.

        I don't think size makes that big of a difference unless the horse is overweight.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by belgianWBLuver View Post
          I live in southern NM - Baby its hot here! and sometimes like now in the summer its a little humid also. My very big horse gets worked exclusively in the morning before the day heats up. He gets out 6 days a week with a turnout in the RP on the rest day.
          He gets polos or boots on his legs for working - but not the neoprene type because they get very sweaty. He also has walk breaks during his workout. Workout lasts approx. 30 - 40 mins.

          He gets a nice shower with cool water after the workout and occasionally an alcohol brace.

          He gets powdered electrolytes in his water trough on a daily basis and he drinks and pees a lot in the summer. His sweating has improved ten-fold by giving him a salt brick in his feed trough and the electrolytes.

          Electrolytes are a non negotiable must IMO.
          ABQ is one of my favorite places. My daughter used to work for UNM. ABQ is an oven but southern MD/VA is a sauna. Sweat doesn't evaporate here, it just drips
          I wasn't always a Smurf
          Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
          "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
          The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by carolprudm View Post
            ABQ is one of my favorite places. My daughter used to work for UNM. ABQ is an oven but southern MD/VA is a sauna. Sweat doesn't evaporate here, it just drips
            I hear you! All the more reason for electrolytes and after a vet consultation perhaps a serious treatment for anhidrosis

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            • Original Poster

              #26
              I appreciate all of the replys. It's in the owners' court on what they want to do. Owner feels the horse is fine but will consult with the vet. Unfortunately the riding early and late are not options because of my work schedule and having parenting responsibilities. I normally ride anywhere from 6 - 8 PM. I do groom and saddle in front of a large barrell fan (not sure if that is the right description - it says heat buster on it) and since he's stalled during the day he is not sweaty when I get to the barn and he is not noticably hot to the touch. I've explained to the owner he has the respiration of my old event horse after cross country but minus the sweating. The owners respect their vet and will listen to her I'm sure and take whatever steps are necessary to figure out if there is an issue and what to do about it.

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              • Original Poster

                #27
                Originally posted by carolprudm View Post
                Sweat doesn't evaporate here, it just drips
                Anything that holds moisture is a no-go round here. Light, moisture wicking clothing is the only thing that works. Plus it dries the quickest when I drench myself with the hose after a ride.

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                • #28
                  We've got a couple of Friesians here that wear those "cooling vests" for horses at shows and in between rides. Those guys are so heavy and thick-haired and black -- they're built to absorb heat!

                  I have a Hanoverian who's not a happy camper in the heat. He gets a sponging with an ice-water/alcohol mix after rides. Helps cool him down. We've given up showing in July and August -- unless it's up in the mountains somewhere.

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                  • #29
                    tying up is NOT caused by cold water on hot muscles. There was a ton of research done on this subject in 1995 & 1996 because of the Olympics in Georgia in the summer. They put ice water on event horses after they come off xc. Cooling down quickly is very important.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Big horses take longer to get fit and adapt to the weather (heat), so be sure to take it slow and take lots of breaks.

                      Like someone else said, with my 'big guys' I always start off by hosing them off with cool water and tacking up in front of our big aisle fan. This helps start him off cooler.

                      I also keep a bucket, sponge, and scraper next to the arena (sponge and scraper on a string tied where I can reach it, so I can use it while mounted if I am alone) mixed with 1 part alcohol (or sea-breeze) and 2 parts water that I sponge off their necks and shoulders with at each walking break and then immediately scrape off. (the key to cooling off a horse's temperature).

                      As far as no electrolytes, well, to put it lightly, that is bulls*. As horses sweat, work, etc. they need electrolytes, not just salt (NaCl), to balance out their bodies and minerals they sweat out. Good article from Equus to share: http://www.equisearch.com/horses_car...-electrolytes/
                      All of my horses in training are required to get a good quality electrolyte (no sugars) and salt in their daily rations-not up for debate.

                      I also would recommend feeding salt in the feed, especially for bigger horses or if they are not licking the salt readily, and working hard, extra salt is an essential mineral to their bodies and will also encourage them to drink more.

                      In addition, after riding, when hosing to cool off, instead of soaking her with water, which will just act as a 'blanket' to her skin and trap the heat in, hose her off in sections and immediately scrape the water off. Repeat all over her body until she is cooled off. It takes longer and more work, but is the only way that using water will actually cool down the horse instead of trapping the heat in or not changing the internal temp of the horse. Whether it's a horse we have in training, or when we are out on an endurance race, wet and scrape is the key to cooling them off.
                      I usually park them out in front of the aisle fan after hosing them off to continue to cool their bodies and let them rest before turning them out.

                      Good Luck.
                      Last edited by mountainhorse; Jul. 25, 2013, 03:07 PM. Reason: forgot to add something
                      "That's not how it works. That's not how any of this works."

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by TequilaMockingbird View Post
                        I don't think size makes that big of a difference unless the horse is overweight.
                        It does make a big difference. Volume increases much faster than surface area, and when the surface cools the volume, more heat can build up in the volume and cooling time is increased.

                        Horses are also individuals - some can handle the heat (or cold) better than others regardless of size. Being fit makes it easier as less effort means less heat generated.

                        To the OP - it sounds like the horse is sweating - if you're seeing the "non sweating" when he's working in a breeze, but then gets soaked when you walk through the breeze-blocking trees then he has been sweating in the breeze. It just evaporated before he got soaked, and when you walk through the trees you see the sweat as his body tries to dump the built up heat.

                        We had a brutally hot and humid spell here recently and my horse had trouble with it - and we didn't do any work because I can't handle the heat and humidity myself. My guy has an incredibly dense coat, and the hairs were more than double the length of a normal summer coat over his back so I did clip him, and hogged the thick mane off too. For rapid cooling I'd stand there and alternate running the hose spray over his chest/lower neck, and spraying the sheath/inside of hind legs. These being the high heat dissipation areas where the blood can be cooled.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by fiddleandco View Post
                          Big horses take longer to get fit and adapt to the weather (heat), so be sure to take it slow and take lots of breaks.

                          Like someone else said, with my 'big guys' I always start off by hosing them off with cool water and tacking up in front of our big aisle fan. This helps start him off cooler.

                          I also keep a bucket, sponge, and scraper next to the arena (sponge and scraper on a string tied where I can reach it, so I can use it while mounted if I am alone) mixed with 1 part alcohol (or sea-breeze) and 2 parts water that I sponge off their necks and shoulders with at each walking break and then immediately scrape off. (the key to cooling off a horse's temperature).

                          As far as no electrolytes, well, to put it lightly, that is bulls*. As horses sweat, work, etc. they need electrolytes, not just salt (NaCl), to balance out their bodies and minerals they sweat out. Good article from Equus to share: http://www.equisearch.com/horses_car...-electrolytes/
                          All of my horses in training are required to get a good quality electrolyte (no sugars) and salt in their daily rations-not up for debate.

                          I also would recommend feeding salt in the feed, especially for bigger horses or if they are not licking the salt readily, and working hard, extra salt is an essential mineral to their bodies and will also encourage them to drink more.

                          In addition, after riding, when hosing to cool off, instead of soaking her with water, which will just act as a 'blanket' to her skin and trap the heat in, hose her off in sections and immediately scrape the water off. Repeat all over her body until she is cooled off. It takes longer and more work, but is the only way that using water will actually cool down the horse instead of trapping the heat in or not changing the internal temp of the horse. Whether it's a horse we have in training, or when we are out on an endurance race, wet and scrape is the key to cooling them off.
                          I usually park them out in front of the aisle fan after hosing them off to continue to cool their bodies and let them rest before turning them out.

                          Good Luck.
                          You shouldn't to scrape the water off immediately. Wait till the horse's body heats it up, IOW transfers heat from the horse to the water...it shouldn't take more than a minute or two, then remove the heated water.
                          I wasn't always a Smurf
                          Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
                          "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                          The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

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                          • #33
                            The surface of the skin and water exchange temperatures almost instantly, and even though the water may feel cool as you touch it after sponging or hosing it onto an area, it has already gained a lot of the heat from the skin of the horse-better to scrape it off quickly than let it sit. Of course, to each their own,.....
                            I have done both ways, plus some, on many horses including WB in Dressage and Arabs in the midst of a hot 100mile endurance race, so we do what has been tried and true for us (and proven by veterinarians-this method of cooling off was recommended by the World Games for horses to cool off after events).
                            "That's not how it works. That's not how any of this works."

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                            • #34
                              I ride endurance on a morgan with a ton of mane and a thick coat. Here is what has worked for me :
                              - braid the mane- if you get the hair off of the neck, the horse has more surface area to evaporate the sweat. I think of it as the equivalent of putting my hair in a pony tail before a run. For hot rides, I braid strips of fleece into the mane. If you get them soaking wet before and during the ride, it helps them stay cool.
                              - monitor how much water they drink. If he is stalled, this will be easier than in a group pasture. Maybe make a chart outside of the stall and ask anyone who fills up the water to write down how much he drank. This way you know what is normal for him to drink, and if he starts drinking less than normal, you will know.
                              -electrolytes - maybe yes, maybe no. I find horses will eat more loose salt than from a salt block ( most of them are designed for cows, who have a much rougher tongue than horses). I would get a 50lb bag of "taxidermy salt"( don't worry, its just salt, no extra chemicals) from the feed store and put a cup or two in a small bucket in his stall.
                              -If you hose him off to cool him down, immediately scrape off the water. It heats up very quickly and it can act as a insulator ( and trap more heat!) if left against the skin.
                              It will take time to get him used both to work and the heat. Stay cautious and keep an eye on his hydration levels ( sounds like you are doing that already). If you meet with the vet, ask them about checking skin tenting, capillary refill time and jugular refill. These are some of the parameter most endurance riders use to measure hydration level. If you want to get very scientific, get a cheap stethoscope and take his pulse and/or gut sounds on a regualar basis - this way you will know what is normal for him and if he is acting odd, you can check and compare against normal. Resting pulse is also a great way to measure how his fitness is increasing.

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                              • Original Poster

                                #35
                                Originally posted by ehwaz View Post
                                I ride endurance on a morgan with a ton of mane and a thick coat. Here is what has worked for me :
                                - braid the mane- if you get the hair off of the neck, the horse has more surface area to evaporate the sweat. I think of it as the equivalent of putting my hair in a pony tail before a run. For hot rides, I braid strips of fleece into the mane. If you get them soaking wet before and during the ride, it helps them stay cool.
                                - monitor how much water they drink. If he is stalled, this will be easier than in a group pasture. Maybe make a chart outside of the stall and ask anyone who fills up the water to write down how much he drank. This way you know what is normal for him to drink, and if he starts drinking less than normal, you will know.
                                -electrolytes - maybe yes, maybe no. I find horses will eat more loose salt than from a salt block ( most of them are designed for cows, who have a much rougher tongue than horses). I would get a 50lb bag of "taxidermy salt"( don't worry, its just salt, no extra chemicals) from the feed store and put a cup or two in a small bucket in his stall.
                                -If you hose him off to cool him down, immediately scrape off the water. It heats up very quickly and it can act as a insulator ( and trap more heat!) if left against the skin.
                                It will take time to get him used both to work and the heat. Stay cautious and keep an eye on his hydration levels ( sounds like you are doing that already). If you meet with the vet, ask them about checking skin tenting, capillary refill time and jugular refill. These are some of the parameter most endurance riders use to measure hydration level. If you want to get very scientific, get a cheap stethoscope and take his pulse and/or gut sounds on a regualar basis - this way you will know what is normal for him and if he is acting odd, you can check and compare against normal. Resting pulse is also a great way to measure how his fitness is increasing.
                                Thanks for the info. He has a short mane so it's really a none issue, only way to go from where he is would be to roach and I'm not brave enough for that. I rode Wednesday evening and did a total of 30 minutes with mostly walking. He was damp under the saddle area and had some sweat around his throat latch but was otherwise dry. His breathing was normal also so I was not concerned. What concerns me is when he has the high respiration and flared, panting nostrils but no sweat. I figure if he's worked so hard that his respiration is so high with flared, panting nostrils he should have a good sweat but instead he is dry in the normal sweat areas with dampness under the saddle. And the day he worked in the indoor and I was drenched and he was dry was definately weird - instructor was worried enough that we cut the lesson short because we both felt he was very fatigued.

                                Owner says he has always been like this (they have owned him since he was a foal). Owner is putting a salt block in the field and he's been started on electrolytes (as of Wednesday evening). We are going to only work in cooler temps (early weekend morning rides and weekday late evening rides) and only work to a level that is weather appropriate so he can get through the summer safely. Maybe next summer will be better if we do not have an interruption in his training schedule like we did this year.

                                I appreciate everyone's feedback because it pushed me to stress the point with the owner to have action taken. She's not getting the vet out at this point, but we are all aware of the situation and taking precautions and monitoring.

                                If the water is being sprayed on him does that have enough of a "scraping" action to continue to spray him for several minutes in that manner, or should I wet his body, scrape and repeat until he is cooled?

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  I never knew about the water acting as an insulator, I used to just hose my horse and let them air dry....now I feel like a jerk! No more of that, for sure!

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by Barn Cat View Post
                                    T
                                    If the water is being sprayed on him does that have enough of a "scraping" action to continue to spray him for several minutes in that manner, or should I wet his body, scrape and repeat until he is cooled?
                                    I wish I could find that darned article I read ... but this is the gist of it:

                                    When you spray water on a hot horse, the first bit stays on the skin and quickly heats up, then the rest sheets off. So the rest of the water doesn't cool the horse. The author recommended repeatedly spraying and scraping the water off, so the water will continually cool the skin and promote recovery.

                                    For my own horse, who is a little squirt and has never had trouble dealing with the heat ... I quickly spray/scrape each area of his body twice. Then check to see how hot his skin is. If he's still pretty warm, I do it again.

                                    Glad you got some action from the owners. Good luck
                                    __________________________
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                                    • Original Poster

                                      #38
                                      Originally posted by HorseKrazy View Post
                                      I never knew about the water acting as an insulator, I used to just hose my horse and let them air dry....now I feel like a jerk! No more of that, for sure!

                                      I've always just hosed for an extra long time if they were really hot so I'm just as much of a jerk. I always scrape though. I rode TBs at a farm many years ago and we had to hand walk those critters till they were dry so I learned to scrape a horse so it was as dry via sweat scraper as it could possibly get.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by ChocoMare View Post
                                        Have no fear of quickly cooling that big body when he's heated. The 1996 Summer Olympics in Atlanta proved that the old line "they'll tie up with cold water" is a myth. Just look at endurance horses....

                                        The bigguns are harder to get fit and fall out of fitness a bit quicker than the lights, so as others have said: early morning or late evening workouts, lotsa external cooling offered when you can't.

                                        Yup - hose him off with cold water, scrape it off, and repeat until the water you are scraping off is no longer hot, and offer him as much water as he will drink.
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                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Valentina_32926 View Post
                                          Start before riding by hosing him off with cool water and putting him in front of a fan to dry. This way you are lowering his body temperature before the ride.
                                          THIS! I am a bit different though. I tack up and then hose off her throatlatch down to her chest, her legs and stomach. She has lost a lot of her fitness bc we have had rain and thunderstorms for a month (seriously) so the arenas were muck.

                                          She has always been a good sweater, but I only work her for 15-20 right now. Canter dependent upon her fitness level for the day. Since your guy is out of shape, use lots of walk breaks and you can get him engaged and active at the walk. Chances are, if he is out of shape and using himself, a 20 min workout is plenty for right now.

                                          As for you, Gatorade and granola bars saved my life. Mare is fine with the heat and sweats gallons. I get lightheaded at the drop of a hat. Stay hydrated!

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