• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Draft X and dressage...WWYD? **UPDATE**

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Draft X and dressage...WWYD? **UPDATE**

    Well I'm back again after a bit of a hiatus, it seems like the horses just keep following me wherever I go, despite me trying to ignore them!

    After MANY failed visits, trials and pre purchase exams, I gave up on finding a new horse. Took some down time and was enjoying a bit of freedom from it all. I received an email about a horse that I had inquired about quite some time ago and decided to go and have a look.

    Well that was a mistake. As soon as I swung a leg over I knew that she was pretty special. Very sweet, straightforward (for a 3 year old) and willing to try even when she was uncertain of what I wanted. She is exactly what I was looking for, but not necessarily in the right package.

    She is a draftXTB, and although not terribly drafty in build, she definitely has the markings. I'm no expert on movement but she seems to be pretty average - not a sewing machine, but nothing jaw dropping. She just looks like a sweet, safe draftX.

    My concern is that she just isn't going to be fancy enough, or have the movement to be competitive. She absolutely has the attitude to be successful, and even at 3 shows a good work ethic - she was tired at the end of my trial ride but kept going and trying until I asked her to stop. She is well started, whoever broke her did a lovely job of teaching her forward off the leg and she is butter soft in the contact, no rooting or pulling and she is very responsive to the rider's body which I like.

    I don't have the budget for fancy, nor have I found a worthwhile part board or lease... everyone wants 300+ and lessons on top to ride their green broke horse, which I'd rather just pay on board and train my own. I don't have the budget for this one either, but she pulled my heart strings a bit and now I've lost my ability to make an objective decision. I'm also a university student so I need to be very clear about the choices I'm making now that will affect me long term. So in the spirit of making a life altering decision with the help of total internet strangers, what would you do?
    Last edited by JustABay; Jul. 1, 2013, 09:39 AM.

  • #2
    It depends.

    How "competitive" do you want to be? Having had a fabulous moving, gorgeous draft cross, and doing dressage with him (among other things) I'll weigh in. He was big, liver chestnut with gaits to die for. Everyone who saw him thought he was an import. He was. From Canada.

    He could float and had tremendous suspension.

    He. Had. No. Work. Ethic. At. All. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

    He was, in terms of a competition horse, a complete and utter disappointment. He played only when he felt like it. One day, he'd float you across the arena with power and grace, the next day, he would refuse to trot a 20m circle to the left.

    I loved him dearly, and forgave him his sins because of it.

    Your life is uncertain at this point. You could get a fabulous horse that doesn't stay sound. You could get a fabulous horse that stays sound, but you don't have money to compete.

    Get the horse that speaks to your heart, because, no matter how it turns out, if she's doing her best, and you love her, that will be good enough, it won't matter what anyone else sees when they look at her. You'll know.

    Average with a good "try" trumps above average slacker any day. Trust me.

    Comment


    • #3
      What is your goal?
      www.destinationconsensusequus.com
      chaque pas est fait ensemble

      Comment


      • #4
        I think it really depends on the DraftX. There are so many variations when it comes to "DraftX".... all kinds of mixes, types, shapes, build.... just look at her as an individual.

        I've known a lot of DraftXs that I just did not care for at all. But there are some really nice, sensible, lovely ones out there. My trainer has one that she paid $900-- he is worth his weight in gold. A COTHer sent me a lead on a really lovely DraftX gelding for sale. He was solid at 4th and looked surprisingly light and soft. If my circumstances were a bit different I would have jumped on him.

        What exactly are your goals? Frankly, for most adult ammies, soundness, a good brain and trainability will far outweigh "fancy".....
        We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 2ndyrgal View Post
          He. Had. No. Work. Ethic. At. All. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

          He was, in terms of a competition horse, a complete and utter disappointment. He played only when he felt like it. One day, he'd float you across the arena with power and grace, the next day, he would refuse to trot a 20m circle to the left.
          This touches on a good point. If they don't want to play the game, they can muscle their way out of it. I've seen quite a few like that.... we used to get a bunch at the camp where I worked, and after a month of being ridden by kids a couple hours a day, a lot of them were like Hell to the No.

          And some of them are just not built to be exceptionally athletic and thus, when things get hard, they say No Thanks and then stick their fingers in their ears and drag you across the arena.
          We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

          Comment


          • #6
            On a budget, you get to pick 2 between brains, soundness, training, and fanciness. You can't have it all on a budget. Unless you have plans to go FEI soon, pick brains and soundness. An average mover that is pleasant, smart, and sweet will get you a LOT further and be a lot more fun than a fancy horse with an unpleasant/nasty/overreactive/lazy attitude or soundness issues.

            I have a decent budget so I got to be a bit more picky. I chose brains, soundness, and a horse with some first level work and a decent mover for an OTTB. I have NEVER regretted sacrificing 'fancy' for fun. I love my horse, he is sane and safe and fun. Maybe not the easiest ride ever, but he doesn't have a speck of nastiness in him, I always feel safe. I see so many people struggling with or scared of their fancy horse (and been there, although not necessarily on a fancy horse), it's NOT worth it unless you can afford everything in a horse
            .

            Comment


            • #7
              In addition to what the others are saying:

              Know that, at three, she is not nearly done growing and could bulk out quite a bit in the next few years. Could, not will, necessarily, but if you Google images of "three year old (insert Draft breed here)" you'll see that, on the whole, they still look pretty light.

              Heck, my THOROUGHBRED bulked out tremendously from age 3 to her current just-turned-five, and I suspect she has a bit more to go, even, although she will always be on the delicate side.

              Just thought I'd mention it, since you are already expressing your concerns about her appearance/heritage.



              That being said...at least in my area, there is always a market for a good, solid, draft-x type that can "jack of all trades" it a bit. So even if she doesn't work out for you, she may be a great mount for someone else and easy to sell on.

              Comment


              • #8
                And yes, she will grow and fill out

                I got my big guy when he was 3, just at 16h, looked like an old style irish TB type, big bones. He didn't stop growing and filling out until he was almost 6, he topped out at 17.3 and probably 1600 lbs. He wasn't "drafty" he was just big. While I wouldn't expect a mare to fill out quite as much, she will change.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  I have consumed much wine while pondering the ins and outs of this decision

                  My goal is to make it as far as I can in dressage. Being a converting hunter rider I don't expect to hit GP in my lifetime, however the goal for this horse would be competitive at 3rd level. I don't mind if it takes years, as long as we can get there. I'm not a fan of short term partnerships, or the torture of horse shopping, so I want to buy something I can live with and love long term.

                  She is not a heavy or thick draft - she has a sturdy build but is leggy and tall at 16.3 already. She definitely has the breedy color and markings, and is pretty loudly coloured....I can hear my childhood coach echoing in my head "don't buy loud coloured horses, everyone will notice you, good or bad!"

                  I also am not great at recognizing good conformation so I'm a little lost....My coach is away right now so I don't have any input from him either, and my wine bottle doesn't say much other than "glug glug glug"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Pics! Pics! We need pics!
                    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Since your trainer is out of town, is there someone else knowledgeable that you trust that could look at the horse's conformation for you? The problem with draft crosses is what pieces/parts they got from the draft and this can be a limiting factor. At third level, she's going to need a good quality canter to start. Did you watch her in the field? Was she prone to cross cantering or was she hesitant to canter at all? You'll also want her to be able to push from behind, so a slopey, draft style croup will be a hindrance.

                      Like everyone else, I have seen really amazing and really fugly draft crosses. It really depends on the individual and what parts they got out of the deal. If she is sweet and you like her and she seems that you can accomplish your goals with her, then go for it!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Remember that dressage is about the long hard journey you take with your horse, and then show the judges for 5 minutes what you learned along the way Buy a horse you ENJOY riding and being with every day!

                        I have NEVER bought a "dressage" horse, yet I've somehow managed to ride successfully at GP Draft crosses can be awesome! Any horse can be awesome, and most riders are not limited by their horseflesh Buy what you can ride and enjoy.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JustABay View Post
                          don't have the budget for this one either, but she pulled my heart strings a bit and now I've lost my ability to make an objective decision. I'm also a university student so I need to be very clear about the choices I'm making now that will affect me long term. So in the spirit of making a life altering decision with the help of total internet strangers, what would you do?
                          Putting her in training is not in your budget or ownership in general? I think you can work around the former but not the latter.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Wow-what great advice here!

                            Totally in love with my import...from Canada also . Draft x TB. All the try, sweet, sane, sound, lovely to ride, heart of gold.

                            Listen to those with more experience regarding his build, etc., but my inexperienced advice is similar to those above-ride a horse you want to ride every day. And can't nearly any horse make it, truly, to the level to which you aspire? Especially a leggy already 16.3 one?

                            Just make sure you have the finances worked out to your satisfaction, then leap and the net will appear.
                            LarkspurCO: no horse's training is complete until it can calmly yet expressively perform GP in stadium filled w/chainsaw juggling zombies riding unicycles while flying monkeys w/bottle rockets...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Great advice already given here. I'll just add a few points that I don't think have been mentioned yet:

                              1) Remember that conformation isn't just about movement, it's also about soundness... so have your trainer or someone else evaluate her for her ability to take weight on her hindquarters and stay sound (look for good angles in the hock and stifle).

                              2) How much you care about her movement (which can be developed quite a lot - at 3 she's still developing the strength the carry herself, never mind a rider) - really depends on what you mean by "competitive". If that means you want to win much of the time, then you're probably needing something with natural uphill movement and some ability to cover ground. If you mean you want to get solid scores and possibly earn your bronze medal, then there's no reason an average mover can't get you there.

                              3) Your life is completely open to change at this point, and you absolutely cannot predict what will happen down the line... whatever you end up purchasing may need to be sold later, so if you can ADD value by developing its versatility and athleticism, then it's actually a reasonable buying choice (as opposed to a more expensive "prospect" that might actually lose value as its real level of ability is revealed).
                              Proud COTH lurker since 2001.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Good advice so far.

                                My experience - I bought a 4yo draft cross that was nothing special, but basically moved decently. Had every intention of putting a year on him and selling him as a lower level horse. Fast forward 5 years - We have two placings at regional championships in a fairly competitive region, and hope to make a PSG debut in the fall. He is NOT a loudly colored one, so essentially looks like every other bay dressage horse out there, so I can't help you there, but he is a very un-complicated ride, helped by the fact that I did all the work on him, so any mistakes are mine, nothing to undo from someone else.

                                Draft crosses can certainly be competitve, but not all draft crosses are created equal. And since they often have unknown bloodlines, it can be very dificult to predict what you may end up with in the future, down to how big or bulky they may get.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by JustABay View Post
                                  My goal is to make it as far as I can in dressage. Being a converting hunter rider I don't expect to hit GP in my lifetime, however the goal for this horse would be competitive at 3rd level.
                                  Why on earth not?

                                  Debbie McDonald was a converted H/J rider.
                                  As long as you take lessons regularly from a good trainer (once per week or more) there is no reason to preemptively limit yourself to Third, even if you are bringing a horse up the levels with you.

                                  People who say it is impossible are usually the same people who only take lessons once in a blue moon or are unfortunately paying a poor instructor.

                                  That said, it is hugely important to ride a horse that tries and makes you smile. That is the only way to progress. *IF* you eventually progress past the horse's ability (and if a connemara can take Lendon to the Olympics you never know when a horse will be maxed out, so the "IF" there refers to the fact that 'hey, the horse just might do it,' not 'maybe the rider can't') you can cross that bridge when you come to it. One of my best teachers was a green 14.3h Quarter Horse that I learned under careful supervision to correctly install Training Level and the basics of First in. After a year life changed and I leased him out to an eventual sale, but what he taught me stays with me (and I still know where he lives and can go visit!)

                                  So if the horse makes you smile and you can imagine forging a partnership with it for the next few years and seeing what places you go, get that one. Too many people have fancy horses they don't really like riding and that just throw training roadblocks in the way.
                                  The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                                  Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                                  Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                                  The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    My favorite Jimmy Wofford quote
                                    "But probably, if I had to pick one thing that I had to hang my hat on, I would want the horse that I was going to buy to have a face that I would enjoy seeing poked over the stall webbing every morning, waiting for breakfast."

                                    I take that to mean not a gorgeous individual but a horse that made me happy
                                    I wasn't always a Smurf
                                    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
                                    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                                    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I'm an eventer, but we do do dressage (is that grammatically correct?). I had a draft cross (Perch x Morgan) who did VERY well in competitions. He was always in the top three after dressage, with scores in the low 30's (that's high 60's for you pure dressage people) and would always, always jump clean. I struggled with keeping him fit enough to gallop xc, but you don't have to worry about that. The judges loved him because he was so steady. No, he didn't have a lengthening to speak of. His trot didn't float. However, he never wavered in rhythm and was very easy to ride in a test because he was so steady.

                                      Another person locally has a draft cross mare that is even heavier than mine was, and she scores in the high 20's-low 30's because her mare is so darn consistent.

                                      If you aren't looking to go Grand Prix, and this horse has everything you want between the ears and you love riding it, why not go for it? Being a college student, you want a horse that can sit around for a few days while you study for exams and not be a lunatic when you swing your leg over it. Draft crosses are also an easy sell as they tend to be big and placid - something that a lot of ammys want for themselves or for their husbands. Good luck, and please post pictures!
                                      "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison

                                      So, the Zen Buddhist says to the hotdog vendor, "Make me one with everything."

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Dressage is about making the most of the horse you have. It is not always necessary to have a fancy warmblood that has huge movement. Have a look at this article about shire crosses:

                                        http://www.eurodressage.com/equestri...areer-dressage
                                        "Good young horses are bred, but good advanced horses are trained" Sam Griffiths

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X