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Searching for a new dressage partner.... Woes!

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  • #21
    Consider an 'off' breed. I have a friend who has done very well with a halter bred Arabian. Debuted PSG last year, will show PSG this season. She paid $800 for him when he was a 2 year old. Online. She purchased him off an internet auction from the other side of the continent.

    Now the trick is she came up in the Arabian breed industry and could make a determination off the pedigree as to what the horse would be like. Also, the horse is a nit. He's not dangerous, but he's the kind of over reactive dip who will spook at the flowers when you are doing changes across the diagonal. Not dangerous, but irritating as hell. So you have to be patient, and adopt a Zen like acceptance of what is. OR, be willing to go the alternative horsemanship route and do LOTS of cross training with the creature.

    On the plus side, the little bugger can really sit his butt down. And you can school him all day long and he never gets tired of it. Also, you can ride him when it's 105 Fahrenheit and he doesn't even notice.

    There are FEI capable horses to be had for pennies. BUT you have to be willing to deal with the fact that they will never get great scores on gaits, and they will likely be beaten by better movers, most of the time. Also, that FEI capable off breed may not be resalable for any decent amount. It doesn't matter how good an FEI Fjord is, you are very unlikely to get six figures for it when it is 'finished' like you would a fancy moving warmblood.
    "Friend" me !

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    • #22
      Originally posted by BrokenArrow View Post
      I'm in QLD

      Looked at one today. Super super lovely filly, great paces and lovely nature. I loved every second of riding her.

      BUT she's got a slight roaring problem So big sigh, another one struck off the list.
      So slight roaring problem...do tie back surgery...voila...near perfect horse.
      www.vandenbrink.ca

      https://www.facebook.com/VandenbrinkWarmbloods?fref=ts

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      • #23
        I hope you find something. I'm here in the US and have been searching for six months with nothing to show for it. Even with a reasonably big budget to start, couldn't find anything. Looking above budget, still a no go.

        The ones I've found that were worth going to see always sell fast. And if they don't, there is something seriously wrong with them. TONS of bad training or basically no training. Some of the higher priced ones had the least training.

        Considered going to Spain as have a connection there. Still lots of badly ridden horses. Hard to find ones with the right movement and when do the asking price is high, and still the training looks not as thorough as one would hope.

        I wonder if the high prices are a post Olympic after effect, cause the economy ain't where it should be for these prices.

        Comment


        • #24
          I tend to wonder if part of it is a vast difference of opinions in what "good training" is.

          Some people think a horse who dares to move its head an inch is poorly trained, or one who doesn't self-propel regardless of rider; I think a horse who is trained to set its head but not to step under itself with its hocks is poorly trained, and don't mind if the horse will slam on its brakes if the rider pops out of the saddle.

          Looking at ads for a couple years I found most horses anywhere near my price range were not trained as I would want them to be. Instead, I bought a 2 1/2 year old and am taking care of the training myself (by that I mean with help of a trainer who trains as I wish to see.) I think right now there's not a lot of consistency in what people want as far as training, which can make it hard.
          If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
          -meupatdoes

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          • #25
            Perhaps what happened with Totilas might help guide...even the best bred, best trained horse might not thrive or get top scores with a change or rider/trainer. On the opposite side, so many top riders have taken problem horses and re molded them into champions.

            Perhaps look for one with a "fixable" hole in it's training, or a quirk that might bother some people but that you can deal with.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by BrokenArrow View Post
              Thats funny nhwr because I have him on my waiting list! Im ready to book a plane ticket when the owner lets me know if the people trying him out on the weekend are taking him or not. I really really like him.
              Video of him
              http://youtu.be/Go8cjpIml1k

              I'm aware of CDI qualifications as well, thank you Ours aren't quite as big scores due to the complete lack of CDI's during the year. Which is again why I'm looking for a super young horse to muck around in YH classes with the view of bringing up to FEI.

              Our medal system here in Australia is a lot different as well and is a personal achievement and not something people use to judge riders or trainers. Most people don't even know about it.

              Interesting how things really are different overseas! For us you only need a qualifying score of 60% to get into a CDI at Grand Prix. For Small tour the score is 63%.
              I figured you were aware of CDI qualifications, but I think a lot of people who are virtual horse shopping or giving examples of those hidden, off breed, jewels in a field for under 1K are perhaps not.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by SaddleFitterVA View Post
                I figured you were aware of CDI qualifications, but I think a lot of people who are virtual horse shopping or giving examples of those hidden, off breed, jewels in a field for under 1K are perhaps not.
                I'm not at all aware...(also not giving examples of hidden jewels in a field but did discuss off breeds ), do they have to be specific breeds? Or are you just talking about their records? No grand plans here, although we had a great ride this morning and trainer *may* show him at first level in the fall!

                I really did try to look it up myself, but the link under USEF "FEI and CDI information" says "page not found." I did look at the link from Canada you posted.
                Last edited by right horse at the right time; May. 22, 2013, 02:40 PM.
                LarkspurCO: no horse's training is complete until it can calmly yet expressively perform GP in stadium filled w/chainsaw juggling zombies riding unicycles while flying monkeys w/bottle rockets...

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                • #28
                  Horses who will competitive at the CDI shows are fairly rare. It is not just a lack of good trainers. It is that the horse who has the gaits, mind, and athleticism to make it even to the Small Tour level (PSG & I1) and be competitive is not that common.

                  The requirements will vary slightly in different countries, but the point is that collecting scores, above 64%, on the FEI tests, even if you are only riding in National shows is hard.

                  I used to think that with good training, a lot of horses could do FEI, and while a lot of horses can learn all the movements, they might not have all the other qualities that make a CDI horse. Lots of them can do the tests, but not with winning scores.

                  I don't know that I would ever have the skill or abilities to ride a horse who would be competitive at the international level, probably not, but if given a chance, I'd try it!

                  By off-breed, I meant for the usual dressage sport-horse, which tend to be more WBs or WB crosses than the OTTB, TBs, QH, Connemara, Morgan, draft-X, etc. Nothing at all wrong with any of those breeds, but they are not usually going to be seen at a CDI, winning.

                  When I audited a Steffen Peters clinic last fall, there was a young, professional riding an amazing horse. I ended up chatting with the horse's amateur owner, who realized that this horse had serious potential, and this particular owner was at a place in life where she was ok letting a more talented rider continue to train and show her horse (yes, this does mean she is financing things).

                  Since this quality of horse isn't even common among the horses who are purpose bred, it is even more of an exception to find it in the not-purpose bred, which means this animal is usually not cheap.

                  The rest of this has nothing to do with the original post, but simply how I trudge up the levels.

                  Once I learn my way up the levels, and earn my "lowly"** USDF rider medals I might start seeing if I can qualify to ride in a CDI. I'm a baby-steps kinda rider and I learn by doing and that means I go out and ride my 5/6 tests, am thrilled when they get to the 6/7 tests with a sprinkling of 8s. And my scores aren't even championship worthy yet. But I have a great time learning & riding, have happy and sane horses, and enjoy the process.

                  **"lowly" only if you read horse buying threads on COTH dressage, since this is obviously the hangout for all the top riders with top horses where a 60% is scoffed at in many threads discussing buying horses. For most mere mortals, we are pretty thrilled to have earned those rider awards, and most dressage professionals have those pretty near the top of the resume.

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                  • #29
                    In actual fact, there are a significant number of non-warmbloods competing in CDI competitions worldwide. The issue here is aptitude, both mental and physical - not breed. I am a stickler for proper sport horse conformation and athleticism, as well as overall soundness, and as our young horse inspections here in the UK are proving, those qualities are not exclusive to one particular type of breed. Nor is general warmblood breeding any guarantee of those qualities.

                    I would never recommend that an aspiring Olympian pursue their goals on a non-warmblood, but there are many combinations out there proving that solid, consistent CDI placings are possible on other breeds. This may or may not be relevant to the OP's personal circumstances and goals, but for amateur riders with smaller bodies, less athleticism and tighter purse strings, there are many breeds and crosses well worth attention.

                    Just as a side note, not all national federations have CDI score thresholds such as the ones posted earlier, though they certainly won't (and don't) prohibit well trained non-warmbloods from participating.

                    I am NOT a starry-eyed fantasist who chases fairy tale endings... just an banged-up, open-minded old woman.
                    Proud COTH lurker since 2001.

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                    • #30
                      I am not sure this is anywhere near you in Australia, and these are not warmbloods, but this breeder has some really lovely horses and is selling out due to health issues. I am sure they are well within your price range. I only wish she was in the states.

                      Here is one example:
                      https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

                      Scroll down her facebook page:
                      https://www.facebook.com/PlatinumPar...Horses?fref=ts

                      A couple pretty mares:
                      https://www.facebook.com/PlatinumPar...type=1&theater

                      https://www.facebook.com/PlatinumPar...type=1&theater

                      Good luck with your search!
                      Wiiliam
                      "A good horse is worth more than riches."
                      - Spanish Proverb

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                      • #31
                        Well, Jessica Wisdom won the GP at Golden State CDI with her Welsh Cob Stallion, but I have to say that's the first time I've seen a Welsh Cob win a CDI.

                        Not that I'm hanging out at CDIs all the time, but generally speaking, it's a bred for the job, expensive WB.

                        There's a reason they are expensive - the work is easy for them and they have the quality to be competitive.

                        It's not impossible to do it on something else, but it's rare and it's hard. Not impossible, but quite uncommon.

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                        • #32
                          It can take awhile, but I've had good luck going through unorthodox channels. Shop local sales or adverts, and always heed word-of-mouth. My top FEI horse wasn't actually for sale: I'd gone to try several others, but on the way back to the stables this big grey horse in cross ties was causing a nuisance because he kept whinnying at me -- no joke. I asked about him several times, but the owner kept repeating that he wasn't for sale -- he was her best small tour horse, and moving up. Her trainer pressured her to let me hop on, and we instantly clicked. I ended up buying him at the show after his class, and owned him until his death at a very happy old age My new guy -- a real gem -- I found on Craigslist for a song: he was scrawny, ugly (at the time), but had good bones and a stellar pedigree. So keep looking, don't take no for an answer, and be savvy.
                          Piaffe Girl -- Dressage. Fashionably.
                          http://piaffegirl.wordpress.com/
                          https://www.facebook.com/PiaffeGirl

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by nhwr View Post
                            OK you've got me shopping for you now,lol. I have always thought there were some pretty nice horses down under.

                            If you want a large one, here is something I'd check out on bloodlines alone.

                            Full disclosure***I own a relative (1/2 sister) and I really love her. She is sensitive but not crazy, very trainable- good mover with an awesome canter. Looks very similar. http://horsezone.com.au/category/240...ein-lines.html
                            The horse is beautiful...but unfortunately showing as "SOLD" now

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                            • Original Poster

                              #34
                              Yep he got sold very quickly. As the good and cheaper ones usually do!

                              I have a possible promising sounding lead. 4yr old well bred, very quiet and already been out competing. He's actually fully qualified for the next CDI in the YH classes. In my price range and they are neg on the price due to the owners money issues. So fingers crossed again.

                              Both my instructors love him as well which is a super bonus.

                              I have to say finding an off breed isn't as easy as it seems down here. There are plenty if competitive OTTBs but most struggle past the lower levels. My stallion is a TB however while he struggled with placing and scoring well at the lower levels as soon as we moved up to where his favourite party trick is..... Collection.... He's actually amazed a few people and myself to be quite honest. I just had to take my instructors advice and be patient with him, building his strength and confidence and he'll be an FEI horse.

                              Which is the major reason why I don't want to wade into harder waters with off breeds. If a super one came up I'd consider it but nothing has yet. And not from lack of trying either.

                              I had a big chat again to my vet about the mare with the roaring problem. While yes it may be an easy fix its still another $3000 for an operation that sometimes doesn't work. On top of a horse that is already $25K plus, it's not something I want to be wading into.

                              So fingers crossed about this new horse and the search still continues.
                              Not my circus, not my monkeys!

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                              • #35
                                Thanks for the update, I suspected that the other person had taken the gelding but had fingers crossed for you

                                The 4 year old sounds promising - will want photos & video of course

                                I'd not take on a roarer, the surgery while mostly successful can also be problematic & the longterm prognosis is mixed, with various complications arising. I'd certainly not want to pay 25K - I'd be curious why the current owner has not done the surgery?

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                                • #36
                                  Thanks for the update. Sorry that the gelding got away, it would have been fun to follow each other's progress. So the hunt continues.

                                  Good luck

                                  "When you are searching for something, it is always in the last place you look."
                                  Winnie the Pooh
                                  See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

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                                  • Original Poster

                                    #37
                                    Originally posted by alto View Post
                                    Thanks for the update, I suspected that the other person had taken the gelding but had fingers crossed for you

                                    The 4 year old sounds promising - will want photos & video of course

                                    I'd not take on a roarer, the surgery while mostly successful can also be problematic & the longterm prognosis is mixed, with various complications arising. I'd certainly not want to pay 25K - I'd be curious why the current owner has not done the surgery?
                                    She was from a small time breeder so I have no idea. My guess would be it'd more be a money issue than anything else.

                                    Still waiting to hear on the 4 year old. He's local and his owner is out competing this weekend so hoping to get to go see him this week! He looks very promising so I'm a bit excited about him.
                                    Not my circus, not my monkeys!

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                                    • Original Poster

                                      #38
                                      Quick update!

                                      Going for a 2nd ride on the 4yr old gelding. He is feeling like something pretty special! So straight foward and trainable, but still super sharp and forward which I like. And he's so sweet and cuddly on the ground which helps as well I'm fairly smitted with him to say the least.
                                      Not my circus, not my monkeys!

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                                      • #39
                                        Sounds fabulous

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                                        • Original Poster

                                          #40
                                          I'm happy to say my search is now over!

                                          As of tonight I'm the proud owner of a very special and talented 4yr old gelding. The world is at our feet and we're going on to big and exciting things.

                                          I'm counting down the hours until he gets home.
                                          Not my circus, not my monkeys!

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