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Dutch vs., well, every other method

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  • Dutch vs., well, every other method

    I just got home from an Anky clinic and now my head is spinning. She really blew out the doors on everything I thought I knew about dressage; as in, she doesn't ride inside leg to outside rein, she doesn't believe in half/halts (hurrah for that); she only asks for changes using her outside leg.
    Who knew it could all be so easy?

  • #2
    Prepare for some terbulence LOL You dropped the A word on coth!

    I think a lot gets lost in translation here. I would say that control of the tempo is half halts which is one of her big ones but maybe just not in exactly the same sense of the word as others apply. Like perhaps control of the shoulder (outside) vs straight back hold. Either way one might say it does the same job!

    I do think she starts slower and rounder, but at the same time her horses all seem to be pretty forward so maybe that doesnt need to be a huge focus where another trainer brings out these giant shwungy beasties will need that half halt whip tap so many times to get their rear out of another country.

    I do think she rides evenly to both reins for the most part vs the inside leg as you mentioned but the huge emphasis on that is below her level or rather far below it.

    How many young horses is Anky riding? How many horses below even say PSG?

    We need to remember this may be purely Gold medal horses she is talking here LOL

    To go home and use it on our 20 meters might get us into trouble! (not saying you but in general)
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~


    • Original Poster

      oh, and I just thought of another thing...she took away the whips of everyone. She said if you don't need it, why have it? complete opposite of everyone else.
      I found her to be charming, funny and so spot on with every horse/rider pairing...she was just wonderful (I guess you don't win that many medals being a schmuck)
      really, I can hardly wait to go ride.


      • #4
        is she charming? her soundbites do not always appear to be so. I agree with NOMOIMI. It is all in the nuance. Is she riding anyone GP since the retirement of Salinero? I have not noticed her on the ride lists at the big events lately. Has she retired from riding and is just teaching now? shows how out of the loop i am.

        Clearly she is a heck of a rider, but i am quite happy to continue on my path without ever learning to hyperflex, or whatever the politically correct term for it is now.


        • Original Poster

          No hyperflexion...in fact, she asked one guy to ride with the nose out more..who knew?


          • #6
            Lucky you.

            I took a few clinics with a trainer who was trained in the Dutch system. These were some of the best lessons ever in my life, and I've been working ever since to be more tactful with my leg and only use it when I mean it.

            As for the whip, take it to the arena so it is there if you need it, but don't carry it all the time. This can lead to mistakes such as using it too much or using it in place of the leg and becoming dependent on it.

            I was watching some clinic videos last night with Edward Gal from 2010. He is so nice to watch because he barely touches the horse with the leg and spur. His horses are so sensitive to the leg that he doesn't need to yell at them with it.


            • #7
              There are a lot of good things about the Dutch system, and a lot things that are not really so different from what other people do. It is very much about always having control of the tempo and applying one aid at a time - making things as simple as possible for the horse. The horse has to maintain on his own- so you give an aid, he responds by doing what you asked - then he is expected to maintain that without 'support' of the aids until a new aid is applied telling him to do something else. Obviously an ideal, and not something easily achieved.


              • #8
                FYI, if anyone is interested here are the Edward Gal clinic videos I mentioned. In the first six he is coaching other riders and the last two videos he rides and talks you through everything he is doing.



                • #9
                  Larkspur-how funny! I was just going to ask you which ones. Thanks for posting. (And BTW, someone commented on my signature line. No profit involved, so we're still good . )
                  LarkspurCO: no horse's training is complete until it can calmly yet expressively perform GP in stadium filled w/chainsaw juggling zombies riding unicycles while flying monkeys w/bottle rockets...


                  • #10
                    I remember reading adelindes article on what she changed when she was added to the dutch team and had to ride with Sjef. She spoke a lot about tempo control, and transitions, and not using the rail as an aid. I started making my students work off the rail more and it was enlightening.

                    There is much you can learn from anyone, especially anyone who has won a lot of medals, but, again, let me be honest, that can all be achieved without the negative of force on the bars of the mouth and low, down and round, and lets not pretend it does not happen, we have all seen the pictures.


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by right horse at the right time View Post
                      Larkspur-how funny! I was just going to ask you which ones. Thanks for posting. (And BTW, someone commented on my signature line. No profit involved, so we're still good . )
                      Ha ha. No problem! If you make a dollar on the signature line then we will have to get together and form a company ... create a million sig lines, sell each one for a dollar and split the proceeds.


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LarkspurCO View Post
                        As for the whip, take it to the arena so it is there if you need it, but don't carry it all the time. This can lead to mistakes such as using it too much or using it in place of the leg and becoming dependent on it.

                        As a former eventer I was taught that if a person needed a whip in dressage she was going to be in serious trouble cross country.

                        We could warm up with one but had to drop it before entering the arena per the rules
                        I wasn't always a Smurf
                        Penmerryl Sophie RIDSH
                        "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                        The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


                        • #13
                          I watched a few (first 4 or 5) of the Gal clinic videos. Some lovely young horses and really nice riding but there seems to be a lot of emphasis on the head and neck.
                          Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"


                          • #14
                            About the lack of half-halts. It has been my observation that many UL riders say they don't use this or that, because their body simply subtly does the thisis and thats without the rider being aware of it.
                            Why do I say that? Because I'm "Guilty"!! And I don't consider myself anywhere near Anky's league. :sad:
                            Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                            Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.


                            • #15
                              Love the Gal videos.
                              "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"


                              • #16
                                This is a very interesting thread.

                                I think that you can learn good things from any one, I also don't think any one really rides "classical dressage" which is fine, its not good or bad it is what ever works. Having said that we must always be sensitive to the horse. Be fair to it, and not cause them any pain.

                                OP, I think I am just not understanding...how does Anky not half halt?


                                • #17
                                  About the lack of half-halts. It has been my observation that many UL riders say they don't use this or that, because their body simply subtly does the thisis and thats without the rider being aware of it.

                                  If your horse is really highly tuned to your aids as anky's are there is only a little weight/wait now not the BIG 1-2-3 muscular ponderous thing like you see for example in the jane savoie tapes . That's for horses not on the aids in the first place.


                                  • #18
                                    PC, you are so fortunate to be able to ride with her. I think Nomiomi is right regarding half halts. I recall reading a good article about Anky a few years ago--I think it was in "Dressage Today"--and it was all about speed control which is about half halts. Some trainers shy away from the term "half halt" because they feel the "halt" part of it encourages people to pull. I've heard "half parade" and "half go" used as substitutes. Regardless of terminology, you will undoubtedly gain some wonderful insights from this experience.

                                    Did you ride in or audit the clinic?


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by chisamba View Post
                                      There is much you can learn from anyone, especially anyone who has won a lot of medals, but, again, let me be honest, that can all be achieved without the negative of force on the bars of the mouth and low, down and round, and lets not pretend it does not happen, we have all seen the pictures.
                                      Then let's be honest and acknowledge that many horses trained in the Dutch system stay sound and compete into their late teens, and let's not pretend that horses like Next One aren't still winning the Grand Prix at age 18 and that Bonfire didn't complete in three Olympic Games. We have all seen the videos.


                                      • Original Poster

                                        suzy, I audited the clinic (couldn't really afford the $1400 pricetag to ride), but I feel i almost get more out of auditing than riding...you can really watch and compare rides and not have to worry about your darn horse.
                                        I agree about the half-halt thing...I think she is a gifted rider riding gifted horses and every ripple thru her (diminutive body) is felt by the the horse...and I'm sure her timing is impeccable.