• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

A Wonderful Video Moment at the Charles de Kunffy Clinic at Hassler Dressage

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • A Wonderful Video Moment at the Charles de Kunffy Clinic at Hassler Dressage

    Don't miss the slow-mo section at 20 seconds into the video!

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater
    "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier

  • #2
    That is a very short piece of film, so we don't know what was being worked on -- how it was at the start, for instance.

    I found the horse's gaping mouth troubling.

    Comment


    • #3
      I miss riding with Charles. I always ask myself...what would Charles say...
      A man must love a thing very much if he not only practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practices it without any hope of doing it well.--G. K. Chesterton

      Comment


      • #4
        Why did they feel the need to do slo-mo? I feel it made it more difficult to accurately assess the movement, and like ThreeFigs, I was bothered by the constant opening/closing of the horse's mouth.

        Comment


        • #5
          The open mouth would be solved if she were to shorten her reins so that she isn't leaning backwards and balancing on the horse's mouth. Short reins and a more sympathetic contact would also help enormously with the horse's self carriage. Can't imagine why he didn't correct the hands which were also too high and unlevel most of the time.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by suzy View Post
            The open mouth would be solved if she were to shorten her reins so that she isn't leaning backwards and balancing on the horse's mouth. Short reins and a more sympathetic contact would also help enormously with the horse's self carriage. Can't imagine why he didn't correct the hands which were also too high and unlevel most of the time.
            Well he probably can't fix all that in one clinic. I am sure I ride around with several errors that my instructor sees but she prioritizes to the one or two we will work on right now.

            Although I do need to practice that level of oooohing and aaaahhhing for when I teach.
            The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
            Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
            Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
            The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

            Comment


            • #7
              Meup, I was addressing a couple of poster's comments about the horse's open mouth. The rein length is such a fundamental problem that it should have been one of the first things addressed...unless, of course, this was the beginning of the rider's lesson, and he hadn't had time yet to get to it. However, there's a lot of oohing and aahing that makes me think that's not the case.

              I'm just not understanding why this was held up as a "wonderful video moment." It's a nice AA rider on a nice horse obviously working hard, but there's nothing exceptional going on here. I would point people to the CNN video of Charlotte Dujardins that Equibrit posted if people want to see wonderful.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by suzy View Post
                Meup, I was addressing a couple of poster's comments about the horse's open mouth. The rein length is such a fundamental problem that it should have been one of the first things addressed...unless, of course, this was the beginning of the rider's lesson, and he hadn't had time yet to get to it. However, there's a lot of oohing and aahing that makes me think that's not the case.

                I'm just not understanding why this was held up as a "wonderful video moment." It's a nice AA rider on a nice horse obviously working hard, but there's nothing exceptional going on here. I would point people to the CNN video of Charlotte Dujardins that Equibrit posted if people want to see wonderful.
                I dunno.
                When older AA's (as opposed to world class professionals) have a great moment for them and their horse, I'm prepared to give it to them rather than look for ways to rip it down. That video is something a lot of AA's strive for whereas the Charlotte ride is a pipe dream.

                Btw, the woman has according to centerlinescores put scores on the board of 65%+ at PSG, so clearly some of her training priorities are working out for her.
                The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  A well-respected trainer sent me a message thanking me for showing this video. He appreciated the relaxed and mobile jaw ala Baucher vs. what some see as a gaping mouth. He also pointed out that it is easy to see this rider releasing her hands. Subtle but clear.

                  Just wanted to add this to the conversation.
                  "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I found the slow motion a wonderful teaching tool. The release in the riders arms, and the "plugged in" quality of her seat, and the easily visualized use of her abs.

                    One picture is worth 10,000 words.

                    Thank you, thank you, thank you.
                    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                    Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      read comment 9 re-watch the vid
                      _\\]
                      -- * > hoopoe
                      Procrastinate NOW
                      Introverted Since 1957

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        First of all, as usual, i wonder if MM has permission to share this video on a format that invites criticism that the rider herself has NOT asked for.

                        CdK comes from the austro hungarian school of sit behind the vertical on the longe for six months until your stomach feels plugged in to the horse. I am not a fan of behind the vertical riding as it creates such pressures on the back, so that the back is always lower then the croup regardless of how the head and neck are carried. If you are a very light rider on a very big horse, than this can be overcome, but in general, the "truth" of this classical style is a hollow back.

                        That said, the elevated inside rein, ( called uneven hands and balancing) is neither uneven or balancing, it is bringing the bit up to the lips to bring the horse effectively into the other rein, and if you look, it works. the control of the horse is by the outside rein, which, i ideally should be held in a straighter line to the horses mouth from the elbow. The lowered inside hand is the goal, the elevated inside hand is the beginning. As for the gaping mouth, i am not a fan, even for a baucher style chewing I think this horse is opening its mouth in a more resistant way than ideal the horse should chew the bit without gaping the jaw open.

                        If you are going to work with the french style I do prefer Phillipe Karl, who sits straight and light and does not create the low back open mouth of CdK

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm pretty much in agreement with Chisamba, but disagree about the Austro-Hungarian school seat style. My first teacher was Col. Miklos de Vargha, who rode for a while at (I believe) the Spanish Riding School of Budapest -- the sister school to the SRS of Vienna. He was also an all-arounder -- he expected his students to ride cross-country and stadium courses as well as dressage. I do not recall any "BTV" sitting.

                          De Vargha eventually moved back to Hungary, where he died. He was still giving clinics in his late 80's and 90's. So did CDK and other well-known Hungarians, who would travel back to the old country to teach occasionally.

                          That horse's mouth is not a happy one. I watched the video before the slo-mo portion. If my horse was gaping like that, my (current) coach would get after me! A happy, chewing mouth should not gape like that.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I can't see the wow moment with the slow mo. I'm actually kind of irritated wanting to see the nice moment, and while sure I can tell the horse has greater overstep I'd like to compare the overall rate of chewing, tempo, etc., to the normal speed.

                            Looks like a nice horse and rider - both nicer than my horse and me, and an ammy I don't feel like criticizing.... The slow motion was a good reminder that when I feel like I'm moving too much in the trot it means I'm not yet moving enough.
                            Originally posted by Silverbridge
                            If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                              I dunno.
                              When older AA's (as opposed to world class professionals) have a great moment for them and their horse, I'm prepared to give it to them rather than look for ways to rip it down. That video is something a lot of AA's strive for whereas the Charlotte ride is a pipe dream.

                              Btw, the woman has according to centerlinescores put scores on the board of 65%+ at PSG, so clearly some of her training priorities are working out for her.
                              I think you are continuing to miss my point. The subject line is "wonderful." For this rider at this moment in time, it could very well be wonderful. It just isn't my idea of wonderful or what I would model my own riding on. I have more of an ax to grind with the subject line than anything else. I think "A nice moment for an AA rider" may have been more appropriate, and most (if not all) of us would have said, yup.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by suzy View Post
                                I think you are continuing to miss my point. The subject line is "wonderful." For this rider at this moment in time, it could very well be wonderful. It just isn't my idea of wonderful or what I would model my own riding on. I have more of an ax to grind with the subject line than anything else. I think "A nice moment for an AA rider" may have been more appropriate, and most (if not all) of us would have said, yup.
                                If this rider and this video poster think this moment in time is wonderful for where this pair is at right now, they can describe their video with the adjective they think is appropriate.

                                For example, I am super excited about the "fantastic" new gears my horse is finding in his trot work. To me, it is 'fantastic." In comparison to how he went last year, it is "fantastic." Just because it may not be "fantastic" to you when you have just finished watching an Olympic gold medalist on CNN does not mean I have to describe what I am feeling about my horse, or whatever someone who posts video of us thinks, in my personal video, with whatever adjective **you** feel is suitably subdued.

                                Just because it's not your cup of tea doesn't mean the rest of the world has to cowtow to your preferred adjective.
                                The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                                Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                                Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                                The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  agree with meup - and though yes a very busy chewing mouth which is not ideal BUT not the same as a gaping mouth- - note-was not strapped shut obviously-

                                  This may well have been a breakthrough though not perfection-- we don't know as we have not seen what came before. Posting a brief clip like this makes it difficult to assess the moment.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by ThreeFigs View Post
                                    I'm pretty much in agreement with Chisamba, but disagree about the Austro-Hungarian school seat style. My first teacher was Col. Miklos de Vargha, who rode for a while at (I believe) the Spanish Riding School of Budapest -- the sister school to the SRS of Vienna. He was also an all-arounder -- he expected his students to ride cross-country and stadium courses as well as dressage. I do not recall any "BTV" sitting.

                                    De Vargha eventually moved back to Hungary, where he died. He was still giving clinics in his late 80's and 90's. So did CDK and other well-known Hungarians, who would travel back to the old country to teach occasionally.

                                    That horse's mouth is not a happy one. I watched the video before the slo-mo portion. If my horse was gaping like that, my (current) coach would get after me! A happy, chewing mouth should not gape like that.
                                    sorry, i believe CdK was the one who told me that longing for six month behind the vertical was what everyone did there. my apologies for generalization, i should know better

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                                      Just because it's not your cup of tea doesn't mean the rest of the world has to cowtow to your preferred adjective.
                                      What do you expect from someone who writes and copy edits for a living. I'm a total stickler for precision. Probably why I love dressage, too.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Chisamba, you're forgiven!

                                        OTOH, I do know what you mean. A while back, my coach did have me lean waaaay behind the vertical for a few steps to feel how it engaged my abs (my personal Albatross!) She got this idea from a CDK videotape. So your observation of HIS teaching philosophy is valid. And I do believe that momentarily leaning back does help riders 'feel" those abdominal muscles. I just wouldn't want to do it all the time.
                                        Last edited by ThreeFigs; May. 2, 2013, 12:51 PM. Reason: omission

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X