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A Wonderful Video Moment at the Charles de Kunffy Clinic at Hassler Dressage

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  • Originally posted by Crockpot View Post
    OH please. What you are missing in a huge way there is that the rider herself did not ask for comments from the coth or biddy keybored experts.

    She did not ask to be the subject of trainwrecks on discussion boards regardless of her facebook privacy settings on fb.

    Come on.

    Ethics exist quite apart from law or what is legally allowed.

    It was inappropriate for MM to post this here and on UDBB for discussion and it was also inappropriate for other people to pile on with their critiques of her riding in a half minute clip of her clinic experience.;

    pretending it was all general commentary not related to her riding is beyond disingenuous.

    So why not Man /or woman /up and admit this was completely inappropriate...

    UDDB as usual defended their usual keyboard experts trashing the video until even they had to agree this was wrong and pulled the thread.

    Can you imagine what would happen if someone found some video of the favorite experts on UDBB or Coth and proceeded to tear them apart without permission all in the name of general observations and educating the eye.

    nope. definitely would Not be allowed.
    Thank you for your well laid out thoughts -- well said.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Crockpot View Post
      OH please. What you are missing in a huge way there is that the rider herself did not ask for comments from the coth or biddy keybored experts.

      She did not ask to be the subject of trainwrecks on discussion boards regardless of her facebook privacy settings on fb.





      Come on.

      Ethics exist quite apart from law or what is legally allowed.

      It was inappropriate for MM to post this here and on UDBB for discussion and it was also inappropriate for other people to pile on with their critiques of her riding in a half minute clip of her clinic experience.;

      pretending it was all general commentary not related to her riding is beyond disingenuous.

      So why not Man /or woman /up and admit this was completely inappropriate...

      UDDB as usual defended their usual keyboard experts trashing the video until even they had to agree this was wrong and pulled the thread.

      Can you imagine what would happen if someone found some video of the favorite experts on UDBB or Coth and proceeded to tear them apart without permission all in the name of general observations and educating the eye.

      nope. definitely would Not be allowed.
      All of us, everywhere, especially in public, have many things happen to us/said about us without our asking, many far worse (and better) than what happened here. I don't think anything said or done on this thread has seriously harmed anyone. Some obviously disagree. I can only conclude that their idea of serious harm is very different from mine.

      I also don't think anyone is pretending that the commentary was "not about her riding." I just don't think people commenting upon one another's riding is a big deal-- on the contrary, I think it beneficial. Furthermore, when I imagine critiquing "favorite experts" on UDBB or COTH in the name of educating the eye, I not only think that fine, but believe we're already doing it all the time--- isn't that what we're doing when arguing, for example, over Anky, Edward Gal, Cesar Parra, scoring at competitions, photos and video clips (sometimes surreptitiously taken) of people schooling at various venues, etc., etc. .....??

      In my own system of ethics, open discussion has enormous value, even when some people say things that might be unkind or inappropriate-- after all, in open discussion that, too, can be addressed, just as we've been doing for several pages now.
      http://www.tunnelsendfarm.com

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mike Matson View Post
        I suggest you get familiar with the Facebook privacy settings and their definitions. They are quite clear and provide good options for deciding how you want your postings seen/distributed. A few minutes of reviewing them before posting on Facebook is recommended by social media experts.

        Many Facebook/internet photos/videos have no attributions as they have been posted through several internet sites before arriving on Facebook or other social media sites. When an attribution is given, I provide a direct link, as I did in this "public" video. I could have easily copied the video and then posted it. I didn't.
        I think this excerpt from Crockpot sums up my opinion:

        Originally posted by Crockpot View Post
        Ethics exist quite apart from law or what is legally allowed.

        It was inappropriate for MM to post this here and on UDBB for discussion and it was also inappropriate for other people to pile on with their critiques of her riding in a half minute clip of her clinic experience.;
        I don't give a flying fig if it's *legal* to post the video - that doesn't make it right.

        I think fish has a legitimate discussion, in that I don't mind our discussion of big name professionals at large shows at all. To me there's a line between a pro who is out there in front of all and an amateur at a private clinic taken out of context in a small piece. I think if that were an excerpt of my ride in the context given in this thread other than the OP, I would love seeing it and sharing it with friends. However, I most definitely wouldn't appreciate it being posted for all on COTH with no context given. Even for a big name trainer - without the context, that clip was not a good one to discuss to me. I don't even expect perfection from my favorite riders to watch, and think in that same context most likely I would have been looking at the video asking what made it so wonderful; putting an amateur who is NOT on international teams or otherwise involved in the public eye beyond her own show record up for scrutiny just feels to me as if a line was crossed.

        At the same time, it has made me re-think how I will comment on those international big names when I see them. I certainly enjoy them and for me I love seeing their imperfections because it's reassuring to know even someone so much better than me can still make mistakes.
        If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
        -meupatdoes

        Comment


        • Wait.

          Someone who is crying foul about all the meanies on this thread...


          Denigrated a poster about 2 weeks ago for...wait for it....WRITING IN THE PASSIVE VOICE.

          Don't pretend you're the friend of the little man when you'll gladly kick him when you get the chance.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Kadenz View Post
            Wait.

            Someone who is crying foul about all the meanies on this thread...


            Denigrated a poster about 2 weeks ago for...wait for it....WRITING IN THE PASSIVE VOICE.

            Don't pretend you're the friend of the little man when you'll gladly kick him when you get the chance.
            Oh, let's quote the whole thing shall we?

            My contribution:

            What does the passive voice do for a sentence?
            Lend it a mystical air?
            Your contribution (on the same thread to the same poster):

            LOL, OP, your posts all read like undergrad term papers. Except even there, the professor will expect you to write in ACTIVE VOICE. How one can wax philosophical without understanding a basic rule of writing is beyond me.
            Your recollection of who was doing the denigrating seems a bit skewed.
            The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
            Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
            Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
            The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

            Comment


            • Originally posted by chisamba View Post
              and, by the way centerline scores only accounts for the past decade or so of scores, i bet CdeK has no scores on there, he must be pathetic. clearly has never ridden a horse in his life... oh wait that is not true.
              That's not true. They go back at least until 1992.
              Last edited by Justice~for~Horses; May. 6, 2013, 03:40 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                Oh, let's quote the whole thing shall we?

                My contribution:



                Your contribution (on the same thread to the same poster):



                Your recollection of who was doing the denigrating seems a bit skewed.
                Yes, way to pick out your one quote. Ooh, good job. The difference is that I'm not wagging my finger at anyone on this thread! LOL

                Now I'm going to get a wall of text wherein Meupatdoes will expound on everything anyone has ever said, anywhere. Fun!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Kadenz View Post
                  Now I'm going to get a wall of text wherein Meupatdoes will expound on everything anyone has ever said, anywhere. Fun!
                  Actually, it really is.
                  "Aye God, Woodrow..."

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Kadenz View Post
                    Yes, way to pick out your one quote. Ooh, good job. The difference is that I'm not wagging my finger at anyone on this thread! LOL

                    Now I'm going to get a wall of text wherein Meupatdoes will expound on everything anyone has ever said, anywhere. Fun!
                    Oh please, you got caught out, just admit it.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by fish View Post
                      In my own system of ethics, open discussion has enormous value, even when some people say things that might be unkind or inappropriate-- after all, in open discussion that, too, can be addressed, just as we've been doing for several pages now.
                      Absolutely. There is always Aunt Ester's purse or the frying pan to bring people into line. Of course, mine is a bit worn out from multiple applications to Velvet (XXXOOO Velvet!) and hers to me. This year I don't have to bother with the frying pan, though, as I'm just going to have her ride my 3 year old when she visits this summer.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                        Uh, where am I threatening people?

                        Centerline scores reveals that the critiqued rider and some of her critics were out and about horse-showing similar levels in similar years.

                        The critiqued individual got notably better results than her critic, with a great degree of consistency to boot. Repeatedly and consistently she posted significantly better scores. When you look up their respective names in youtube, "why" becomes clear.

                        This is a fact, not a threat.
                        so you were not telling people to go find video and scores of others and criticize them? by looking for their googleable addresses? it sure sounded like it to me.

                        God i remember now why i have so few posting on COTH after being a member for so many years.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by chisamba View Post
                          so you were not telling people to go find video and scores of others and criticize them? by looking for their googleable addresses? it sure sounded like it to me.

                          God i remember now why i have so few posting on COTH after being a member for so many years.
                          Checking out people's credentials as evidenced by their posting histories, their public dressage score record or videos that they or their acquaintances have posted on youtube is not actually a threat.

                          If you check out the subject rider's centerline scores and her roster of youtube videos in which she is featured, the scores are good and she looks good. If you look at her posting history on COTH she has never said a nasty thing to anyone here. This is her summary. It is not a threat.

                          If you look at other people's posting histories, publically recorded scores, and posted videos, the summary shakes out differently.

                          People create their own posting histories, they ride in front of judges and get the scores they get, and they ride in front of video cameras. How it shakes out in the end is their "internet summary" (independent of what anyone else critiques or doesn't). Everyone is "under threat" of having their internet summary checked out; but what the checking reveals is entirely up to them.

                          My internet summary is eleventy billion posts on COTH, my blogging, about 90 youtube videos showing what I hope is improvement over the years, and no rated dressage scores (which will change for better or worse in 6 weeks).

                          Of course if people can google OTHER people's email addresses and see what comes up, they can google mine too. Did I just threaten myself?

                          Create your own.
                          Last edited by meupatdoes; May. 6, 2013, 04:16 PM.
                          The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                          Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                          Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                          The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                          Comment


                          • No thank you , i don't need that much ego in my life!

                            hahaha, i guess there is a reason why I get along better with horses and dogs than with people. i shall leave the remainder of the squabbling to those who get some pleasure out of it.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by netg View Post
                              I think this excerpt from Crockpot sums up my opinion:



                              I don't give a flying fig if it's *legal* to post the video - that doesn't make it right.


                              At the same time, it has made me re-think how I will comment on those international big names when I see them. I certainly enjoy them and for me I love seeing their imperfections because it's reassuring to know even someone so much better than me can still make mistakes.
                              Many good points, netg. I love watching the dressage greats and seeing that they have some of the same problems as me. Of course, to a much lesser degree, but they have to work hard, too.

                              The takeaway from this thread for me (not trying to foist it on anyone else) is that I will only comment on photos and videos if the OP asks for input. And, when I do, I will do what we were required to do in one of my intro writing courses; talk about the positive elements first.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                                Btw, some of the people on this thread have googlable email addresses, and when their name is subsequently placed into centerline scores it is revealed that their median score at I2 is a 48%, and their max score at PSG is lower than the max score of the rider they are critiquing at PSG.

                                Food for thought.
                                Well my food for thought is this: Kudos to that person who received a 48% in an I2 test. I’m sure she would have liked the score to be higher, but she went out there and did it and likely received some useful comments on how to improve her test. Also, we don’t know anything about the horse. A woman I used to ride with is a beautiful rider but had a horse that was one failing synapse away from a mental case. Her scores in one test could range from 1 to 9 and frequently scored in the 40s and 50s. So, I’m not quick to cast stones at people with low scores without seeing firsthand what they were dealing with. I have my share of low scores and some humorous (embarrassingly so) stories to accompany them.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by suzy View Post
                                  Well my food for thought is this: Kudos to that person who received a 48% in an I2 test. I’m sure she would have liked the score to be higher, but she went out there and did it and likely received some useful comments on how to improve her test. Also, we don’t know anything about the horse. A woman I used to ride with is a beautiful rider but had a horse that was one failing synapse away from a mental case. Her scores in one test could range from 1 to 9 and frequently scored in the 40s and 50s. So, I’m not quick to cast stones at people with low scores without seeing firsthand what they were dealing with. I have my share of low scores and some humorous (embarrassingly so) stories to accompany them.
                                  If you read her posting history, you will find out plenty about the horse. Apparently it is a Grand Prix horse (one of SEVEN she has trained to but never shown in the level) who has "incredible movement, beautiful physique, and magnificent harmony with [her]."
                                  The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                                  Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                                  Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                                  The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                                  Comment


                                  • gawd, now I remember why I used to put prozac in the candy dish at the barn

                                    Some guy swipes a video off facebook and posts it here as "wonderful" without any context.
                                    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wonderful
                                    (1 : exciting wonder:marvelous, astonishing<a sight wonderful to behold>2
                                    : unusually good : admirable <did a wonderful job>)

                                    Some people thought it was wonderful, others didn't. So what? That sounds pretty normal.
                                    Some assumed the OP had permission and some connection with the rider, not exactly unreasonable. But we were wrong, our bad.

                                    And now we are to be subjected to exuberant scolding by the self-appointed posting police, really?

                                    The rider in the video is obviously a big girl. Everyone else should get over themselves and untwist their knickers or just admit they have nothing better to do than stalk people on the internet like the OP did.

                                    Though I must admit, personally, I am looking forward to the suzy roast. Will there be baby carrots too?
                                    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                                      Checking out people's credentials as evidenced by their posting histories, their public dressage score record or videos that they or their acquaintances have posted on youtube is not actually a threat.

                                      If you check out the subject rider's centerline scores and her roster of youtube videos in which she is featured, the scores are good and she looks good. If you look at her posting history on COTH she has never said a nasty thing to anyone here. This is her summary. It is not a threat.

                                      If you look at other people's posting histories, publically recorded scores, and posted videos, the summary shakes out differently.

                                      People create their own posting histories, they ride in front of judges and get the scores they get, and they ride in front of video cameras. How it shakes out in the end is their "internet summary" (independent of what anyone else critiques or doesn't). Everyone is "under threat" of having their internet summary checked out; but what the checking reveals is entirely up to them.

                                      My internet summary is eleventy billion posts on COTH, my blogging, about 90 youtube videos showing what I hope is improvement over the years, and no rated dressage scores (which will change for better or worse in 6 weeks).

                                      Of course if people can google OTHER people's email addresses and see what comes up, they can google mine too. Did I just threaten myself?

                                      Create your own.

                                      If the person in question feels like their own riding can't beat their mad keyboard skillz, they may worry about the reality that others will check them out. That's their problem.

                                      Many, many years ago, when the Internet was wee, I posted on another forum and one particular poster had impossibly high standards for all. For over a year I was awed by her intellect and knowledge. Now she was never ugly with it, but boy did she know her stuff.

                                      So imagine my surprise when I saw her astride for the first time. A hot mess on a horse. Bad, unskilled, no feel, no rhythm: rank beginners often look a hundred times better on a horse than this person. I literally could not believe my eyes.

                                      Ever since, the keyboard cadets get scant attention from me. If I haven't seen you ride, your opinion means nothing. For all I know you look like a monkey on a football.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by SillyHorse View Post
                                        Those of you who think MM will ever acknowledge that he has made a mistake or crossed a line about anything -- ever-- are in for a long, long wait.


                                        It is also not possible to get him to stop posting "cowboy dressage" videos that depict neither.

                                        I thought since everyone is in a piling on mood, I'd take advantage.
                                        A helmet saved my life.

                                        2017 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!

                                        Comment


                                        • ^ Guys that is what the ignore list is for

                                          Mine is pretty short but it got a new entry last night. It works beautifully.
                                          See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

                                          Comment

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