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A Wonderful Video Moment at the Charles de Kunffy Clinic at Hassler Dressage

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  • Original Poster

    I think I heard some more banging on the armor.
    "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      From Velvet's posting:

      He enjoys being a catalyst, to quote Paulaedwina on the now closed CH thread that (surprise, surprise) Mike also started:
      What Velvet didn't know is that Catherine Haddad contacted me about the posting. She made a request. I responded in concurrence with a suggestion she contact the moderator.

      And that is how two adults handle things on a BB.
      "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mike Matson View Post
        If you don't want videos or photos shared, do not mark them as "public" on Facebook, which is what fairwindschance did. If you mark them as something else (such as "friends") then they cannot be shared on other sites. "Public" means just that - it is available for sharing outside your circle of Facebook friends.

        And as for my posting, I never asked for critiques. I simply stated it was a "wonderful" moment captured on video.

        If you want privacy for a video/photo/posting, there are other Facebook options that are available and should be used.
        Public very well may have been so that the rider in the video could share with friends who were not also friends with the videographer. It didn't mean "please, post this everywhere if you see it, for we wish to share it with the world!"

        You take liberties, never giving credit to those from whom you find something, and never asking the owner of the media to which you are posting a link. Perhaps you should consider asking out of consideration when you're posting something which isn't on a site intended for sharing with everyone (such as Eurodressage, or a link to a COTH article.)
        If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
        -meupatdoes

        Comment


        • I think I heard some more banging on the armor.
          ah no, that's just the wind whistling through your tin foil hat
          See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            Public very well may have been so that the rider in the video could share with friends who were not also friends with the videographer. It didn't mean "please, post this everywhere if you see it, for we wish to share it with the world!"

            You take liberties, never giving credit to those from whom you find something, and never asking the owner of the media to which you are posting a link. Perhaps you should consider asking out of consideration when you're posting something which isn't on a site intended for sharing with everyone (such as Eurodressage, or a link to a COTH article.)

            I suggest you get familiar with the Facebook privacy settings and their definitions. They are quite clear and provide good options for deciding how you want your postings seen/distributed. A few minutes of reviewing them before posting on Facebook is recommended by social media experts.

            Many Facebook/internet photos/videos have no attributions as they have been posted through several internet sites before arriving on Facebook or other social media sites. When an attribution is given, I provide a direct link, as I did in this "public" video. I could have easily copied the video and then posted it. I didn't.
            "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier

            Comment


            • And as for my posting, I never asked for critiques
              By posting this video on a discussion board and also commenting on it you were obviously inviting discussion. You ought to know that by now.

              This was inappropriate regardless of details about privacy settings on facebook.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by fish View Post
                Please look at the link I posted, and note that the primary student learns not only from the teacher (aka trained professional), but from fellow students, who also learn by attempting to teach. IMO, it'd be a pretty sad (and expensive) state of affairs if people were only interested in trying to learn from those they have paid to teach them.
                You are hilarious, that you think the unsolicited advice you are able to give after watching a video of one 20m circle is so awesome that the rest of the world can learn from it and should be grateful for your bestowing it.

                When you are at shows and you see people getting coaching do you ride up and start opining forth under the impression that your advice is so fabulous and we are all fellow students here?

                The person who originally posted the video was obviously fine with it being shared, the same way I assume I am obviously fine with people auditing when I am riding a clinic or watching when I ride.

                WATCHING however is a different activity than COACHING and just because you are allowed to watch does not mean you have free rein to invite yourself to be everyone else's coach like you can out teach cdk.

                Jesus. I was at a schooling show over the weekend riding against Jen Alfano and while I certainly WATCHED I did not invite myself to TEACH her or her students.

                We were invited to WATCH. You were the one who presumed to invite yourself to teach. Next time you are auditing a clinic why don't you just grab the mike out of the clinician's hand and tell everyone how much better you can teach it.

                And then HSS can come up with something cruel to say and envision in her mind the rider being taken down a peg (hopefully you made them cry, right??? Hopefully they REALLY KNOW how bad they are and by implication how much better you are), since that is all that particular poster ever contributes to anything.

                I would rather be stuck at third the rest of my life than be an awful human being on the journey.
                The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                Comment


                • Meup, I get what you are saying and agree, but what you are responding to isn’t really what fish is saying. She is not implying that we should just walk up and coach people out of the blue. She is talking about the ability to learn by viewing a photo or video and discussing it with others. The inappropriateness here lies entirely with Mike for posting a video without a person’s permission. It appears that he has a history of this.

                  Mike, regardless of the accessibility of this video, it would have been common courtesy at the very least to ask the owner of the video if you could post it.

                  For you to say, “And as for my posting, I never asked for critiques,” this is lame at best but closer to unconscionable. Not only is this a public DISCUSSION board, but you have been here long enough to know darned well that WHATEVER gets posted is going to receive comments. That’s the whole point of a discussion board. From now on, why not post photos/videos of yourself or of people who have given you express permission. It’s time for you to man up and take responsibility for your own actions. It's also pathetic that you are now blaming the "victim" for not having set appropriate privacy settings on her Facebook page. Sheesh, what next?

                  I’ll add my apologies to NHWR’s to the poor person who found her video posted here.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by suzy View Post
                    The inappropriateness here lies entirely with Mike for posting a video without a person’s permission.
                    This is what you and fish and whoever else are telling yourselves so that you don't have to feel any responsibility or "inappropriateness" stemming from your decision to critique a 52 year old amateur taking a clinic.

                    If Mike has such a 'history' of posting videos without permission, I guess it was just COMPLETELY BEYOND you people to REMEMBER THAT and contain yourselves.

                    Instead the logic appears to be, "Well, I know that Mike probably posted this video without permission. I'll use this fortuitous opportunity to spout off about the rider, make myself look really awesome for being part of the pile on, and then when people call me on it I'll claim it was because OH WHOOPS Mike posted without permission."

                    As opposed to the far more logical thinking of "Well, I am opposed to the manner in which Mike posts videos without asking first because it opens people up to critique they didn't ask for so I'll just keep my mouth shut or find something positive to say and NOT CONTRIBUTE to the unasked for critique that Mike exposes people too."

                    I mean, this way you can behave like a jerk and claim it was all someone else's fault, as if people were lighting your fingers on fire to make you type it all out.

                    I guess you had NO IDEA (espeicially given all of this extensive history you yourself blame Mike for having) that the rider didn't post that video hoping that it would find its way to you and your friends to offer her critical tips. What a shocking surprise!!

                    You had COMPLETELY NO IDEA about the provenance of the video until people called out your behavior, upon which suddenly you knew allllllll about the provenance of the video and of course your behavior was all that person's fault.

                    And here there are examples of other posters who magically managed to discuss the video without later finding themselves in a spot where they had to blame Mike for their words. I guess Mike's behavior can be credited for turning them into kind people too. It must work both ways.
                    The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                    Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                    Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                    The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                    Comment


                    • Meup, it wasn't until I read other people's posts in this thread that I realized Mike has something of a reputation for posting things without permission. I take full responsibility for what I posted and have apologized twice now. I have learned an important lesson--do not comment on photos or videos unless they are expressly posted by or with the owner's permission. In fact, it might be good if COTH made it part of their discussion board policy for posters to specifically mark which items they post are up for discussion. Of course, it then seems kind of silly to call it a "discussion board" if you can't discuss it. Probably best to not post stuff you don't want discussed, huh?

                      Comment


                      • Meupatdoes:

                        As some one else pointed out, this is a "discussion forum," which invites discussion by its very nature, not a clinic or a show, at both of which it would, indeed, be rude to "open forth" with "unsolicited advice," not to mention "taking the mike out of the clinician's hand," although many clinicians do invite discussion (sometimes including evaluation of horses and riders in short videos or even still shots) during their clinics. Please look at the link I posted to a npr program on a Japanese classroom-- in which the teacher solicits "criticism" from her class toward one student with positive results for all.

                        So, to clarify, this is a discussion forum, which means that I, like everyone else, am invited not so much to "watch," as to "discuss," which is what I did and will continue to do as a participant in these forums, which I do not think makes me "an awful human being."
                        http://www.tunnelsendfarm.com

                        Comment


                        • Those of you who think MM will ever acknowledge that he has made a mistake or crossed a line about anything -- ever-- are in for a long, long wait.
                          Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.

                          Comment


                          • The rider does not want to be discussed, TOB has shut their thread down for review.

                            I applaud that approach-- just because you can do something (ie- its a public link) does not mean you should (the rider did not know they were being filmed and the video posted).

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by fish View Post
                              Meupatdoes:

                              As some one else pointed out, this is a "discussion forum," which invites discussion by its very nature, not a clinic or a show, at both of which it would, indeed, be rude to "open forth" with "unsolicited advice," not to mention "taking the mike out of the clinician's hand," although many clinicians do invite discussion (sometimes including evaluation of horses and riders in short videos or even still shots) during their clinics. Please look at the link I posted to a npr program on a Japanese classroom-- in which the teacher solicits "criticism" from her class toward one student with positive results for all.

                              So, to clarify, this is a discussion forum, which means that I, like everyone else, am invited not so much to "watch," as to "discuss," which is what I did and will continue to do as a participant in these forums, which I do not think makes me "an awful human being."
                              Yeah, and several people, when presented with the EXACT SAME VIDEO, made different choices in how they went about their discussion.

                              There are obviously teachers who are able to elicit great positive change in riders and impart great knowledge on auditors in turn, all with kindness and grace.

                              But I guess some people, like HSS, when presented with an opportunity to contribute kindly and in a manner that everyone can come out better, will instead take the opportunity to be needlessly cruel. She could have taken that EXACT SAME opportunity to offer a helpful kindness to the world, but instead she chose to offer that. Wow. When you offer an anonymous group of people the same exact opportunity for comment, their response will reflect the deeper tendencies in their character. This is why different people respond to the SAME situation in different ways. It says more about them than the situation.

                              It's all a discussion. People can discuss kindly or cruelly, or some place in between.

                              Where you fall on that spectrum of discussion is solely up to you. And whether people appreciate or respond positively to you in your chosen place on the spectrum is a result of the words and actions you chose to take. Everybody on this thread had the same video to look at and made their own choice as to how they phrased their response.

                              Sometimes people will use the "discussion forum" to discuss how you discuss, too.
                              Last edited by meupatdoes; May. 6, 2013, 10:11 AM.
                              The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                              Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                              Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                              The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                              Comment


                              • I appreciate Mike posting videos. I usually enjoy them. As this video was taken out of context and I couldn't quite see the wonderful moment (other than lovely horse) so I chose not to comment. No one was forced to comment. If you put something on facebook you have to know someone is seeing it. That's one more reason why I don't do facebook.

                                Don't kill the messenger.
                                Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"

                                Comment


                                • For those of you who may have missed this post, this is so worth reading. It reminded me of a clinic NEDA did several years ago with Ulla Salzgeber. She was teaching Susan Jaccoma on a big, bay gelding (can't remember his name). Anyway, she was asking Susan to ride the half pass in passage; something the horse probably hadn't been asked for before. Susan worked and worked and worked at it. I was getting tired just watching, knowing how hard it must be, and could tell from the other auditors' postures that we all really wanted her to get it. It finally happened and was so utterly amazing to witness. Everyone broke out in spontaneous cheers and applause, and Susan looked like she had received an Olympic gold medal. Anyway, it was in keeping with the article Fish provided a link to.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by suzy View Post
                                    For those of you who may have missed this post, this is so worth reading. It reminded me of a clinic NEDA did several years ago with Ulla Salzgeber. She was teaching Susan Jaccoma on a big, bay gelding (can't remember his name). Anyway, she was asking Susan to ride the half pass in passage; something the horse probably hadn't been asked for before. Susan worked and worked and worked at it. I was getting tired just watching, knowing how hard it must be, and could tell from the other auditors' postures that we all really wanted her to get it. It finally happened and was so utterly amazing to witness. Everyone broke out in spontaneous cheers and applause, and Susan looked like she had received an Olympic gold medal. Anyway, it was in keeping with the article Fish provided a link to.
                                    The fact that frustration tolerance and willingness to struggle is essential to learning, does not in turn mean that you are doing community service to someone else's learning when you increase their frustration and struggle.

                                    Note that none of the other Japanese students jeered at the child when he was working at it. When he finally got it, they broke into applause.

                                    When the person in this video "finally got" whatever they were working on, some people on COTH took the opportunity to rip it down. If somebody posted a video of the Japanese kid on COTH they would probably tell that Japanese kid, "Yeah, but he still didn't draw that cube exactly right and I can still see where he has the angles wrong. This is everything that is wrong with the Japanese school of cube drawing, they draw everything behind the vertical and without a well-engaged core. How could anyone call this video a wonderful moment when that cube clearly looks like a third grader drew it? If you want to see "wonderful" cube-drawing look at the video equibrit posted of PICASSO drawing a cube. Look at us helping the child! We are only bestowing frustration and struggle to help him!!! It is all Mike's fault for posting this video anyway. Mike should never post links to inspiring moments where a 9yo kid finally gets a cube drawn on the blackboard because we might be FORCED to take the opportunity to rip it to shreds."
                                    The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                                    Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                                    Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                                    The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                                    Comment


                                    • Meup, honestly, you need to relax. No one was jeering at the video.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by suzy View Post
                                        Meup, honestly, you need to relax. No one was jeering at the video.
                                        No, I just "discussed" the hypothetical cube drawing video with the same exact words some people on COTH used for this particular dressage "aha" moment. I explained the ways this particular "aha" moment still fell short of ideal, criticized the teaching school, and made note of world famous professionals who could draw that cube better. Shall we envision HSS in the back of that classroom handing down her comment as the kid returns, beaming and excited, to his desk?

                                        Does't sound so good now, huh?

                                        Learn from your own article if you love it so much.
                                        The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                                        Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                                        Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                                        The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                                        Comment


                                        • We are comparing apples to oranges. That is a live classroom setting as opposed to a video or photo. I had no idea the rider was a poster here--and you don't have to waste your time beating me up on that count; I've done a good enough job on my own. And, I have learned to avoid a certain poster's posts!

                                          Comment

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