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A Wonderful Video Moment at the Charles de Kunffy Clinic at Hassler Dressage

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  • #21
    Notes to self (and God):

    Yeah, long reins feel good, but they look like caca. Change that up.

    And thank you God for letting me start as a Hunter Princess where that flappy leg isn't taught. I'm grateful for one fewer bad habit to unlearn. Same of the BTV sitting. Changing my seat from Perchy World, either I sit straight up and use my core, or it doesn't happen.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat

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    • #22
      I read all of the comments first.

      This video is very strange as are the comments.

      The very idea of dressage does go against this raised inside hand consistently. I would say use it very rarely and if you keep having to you are not creating the lightness you need. Just IMO
      ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
      http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

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      • #23
        Originally posted by NOMIOMI1 View Post
        I read all of the comments first.

        This video is very strange as are the comments.

        The very idea of dressage does go against this raised inside hand consistently. I would say use it very rarely and if you keep having to you are not creating the lightness you need. Just IMO
        it is not my method, it is a method of hundreds of years of success... No one said it was consistently raised,

        http://youtu.be/8OgBfZhzm18

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        • #24
          Chisamba, I think Nomiomi and I noticed the same thing in the video; hands that were frequently unlevel and, IMOO, too high. This is not to say or imply that CdeK teaches this method. More likely, it is the rider lifting her hand and holding it there too long and too frequently of her own accord. I deliberately raise one hand or the other on occasion for a specific effect but quickly level my hands, so I'm certainly not condemning the momentary use of this technique.

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          • #25
            Interesting. I'm not sure what they were achieving at the moment that brought on the ooohhh ... aahhhhhh... I didn't feel the earth move myself, but good for her if she reached a new milestone.

            It is interesting to note that during the slo-mo portion, the opening of the horse's mouth coincides with the suspended phase of the trot where the rider leans back and her hips and elbows open. You can see the reins tightening at this moment and that is when the horse opens his mouth.

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            • #26
              I, too, don't feel the need for the slow-mo. Slow-mo makes everything look like it has more suspension and pizzazz. Using it feels like you are trying to make your horse look better than it is.

              I have attended two CdK clinics as an auditor and they blew me away. Did the horses look like Valegro? No. Did the riders look like Charlotte? No. Was everyone riding with perfect equitation without flaws? No. What I did see was a clinician who was able to improve every single horse and rider that came into the ring and the transformations in many cases were astounding.

              In one case, the transformation was as simple as the rider being able to canter a full 20 m circle without breaking. That was a wonderful moment for them. At the start of the session it might have been the most upside down, hollow, tense horse that I have ever seen attempting dressage with a green, beginner rider who didn't know what to do. CdK is able to teach with compassion and patience and using the basics so that everyone improves and learns.

              He does do things that are unconventional - rein length, leaning back, hands low, etc. But I saw that it worked and resulted in happier horses going better. I've seen a lot of trainers just repeat the same thing over and over and over and riders that can't do what's asked so do nothing and nothing changes. It was a pleasure to watch CdK affect change in the riders and horses.

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              • #27
                There seems to be an abundance of snark in the air, and from some who really leave me speechless. With laughter!

                While there are many roads to Rome, some of the posters are in the Mediterranean. All wet!!!!
                Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

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                • #28
                  There is no austrian/hungarian school which recommends steadily leaning btv except perhaps in the momentary exercise of leaning forward to touch the mane and backward to head on croup, and certainly not with the reins in the hand. On top of that it shows bad posture (head jutted forward) and is problematic on the spine.
                  I.D.E.A. yoda

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                  • #29
                    Imho the jaw is doing exactly what the jaw is supposed to do - being the first point of relaxation (shock absorbing also) between the rider's hand and the hindleg. In this case the horse is learning to improve the connection in the lengthen (throughness?) and is not in perfect self carriage so there is movement in the contact and the relaxed jaw is allowing the horse to follow through with the body.

                    There may be a bit of "habitualisation" in the lifting of the right hand but it is certainly helping to keep the horse straight at this moment. Same with the reins being a bit long.

                    I too would be happy to call this a "wonderful" moment if it was my lesson.

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                    • #30
                      Yes! The rider was BTV, a posture seen often by anyone at Devon watching YR. Therefore the reins were long. But the slow motion section, demonstrated for those learning the giving of the arms and the use of a glued to the saddle seat. OK, she has a little " bounce" in slomo.

                      But some of the criticism was unfair considering the sources. Particularly since no one knows what went before this.
                      Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                      Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

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                      • #31
                        I was there. It was worthy of all the oohhs and aahhs. I would explain why but doubt it's worth the effort for this audience.

                        Great post Zevida, His clinics are awesome to audit.
                        "The mighty oak is a nut who stood its ground"

                        "...you'll never win Olympic gold by shaking a carrot stick at a warmblood..." see u at x

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                        • #32
                          I was there as well, and it was a lovely moment. If I had been the one picking a clip of this lesson, I might have gone for the end of the lesson where there was an amazing improvement on their piaffe. She had a really good ride, and got a ton of homework. I will be interested to watch her next ride with CDK.

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                          • Original Poster

                            #33
                            I'm glad we are hearing from those who were there.
                            "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier

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                            • #34
                              Well, so am I. I stated it before -- it's such a short piece of video, we can't know what went before. I'm happy to hear it was truly worthy of the "ooohs and aaaahs".

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                              • #35
                                pretty short clip but ....

                                Legs too busy for my taste, horse doesn't look appropriately connected through the back. I wouldn't say the mouth action is positive.

                                Nice music though
                                See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

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                                • #36
                                  I found this "wonderful moment" video frustrating to watch from the first frame onwards because I firmly believe that good riding comes, first and foremost, from a seat communicating through the horse's back from the lowest point in the saddle, i.e. directly behind the pommel, with the rider balancing her own torso over her seatbones to adjust the horse. As Suzanne von Dietz puts it, "from the trunk to the extremities." The rider in this video sits closer to the cantle than the pommel of her saddle, well away from the deepest, lowest point where she'd be closest to her horse's back and free to influence him/her with her posture and seatbones, not to mention being much more able to shorten her reins, etc., without adversely affecting her horse. To me, this video is especially frustrating because both horse and rider have so much going for them in the way of conformation, basic athleticism, etc. Going back to correct the seat and balance would doubtless take too long to produce the kind of results that get Ah's in clinics (which might be why so few clinicians do it), but I do think that's what's needed for this lovely pair to make solid progress toward achieving their true potential.
                                  Last edited by fish; May. 3, 2013, 01:30 PM.
                                  http://www.tunnelsendfarm.com

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                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by CrotchetyDQ View Post
                                    I was there as well, and it was a lovely moment. If I had been the one picking a clip of this lesson, I might have gone for the end of the lesson where there was an amazing improvement on their piaffe. She had a really good ride, and got a ton of homework. I will be interested to watch her next ride with CDK.
                                    i got the impression from the sound bite that they ended the lesson there and then ( five minutes early but...) are you sure you are talking about the same parnership?

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                                    • #38
                                      Yes, I am sure. The order between the clip and the piaffe work really does not matter much in this context, as both were at the end of the lesson. (To me, the last 10 minutes or so)

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                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by CrotchetyDQ View Post
                                        Yes, I am sure. The order between the clip and the piaffe work really does not matter much in this context, as both were at the end of the lesson. (To me, the last 10 minutes or so)
                                        I truly am curious, since you were there, what were they working on and what did they "overcome" with this horse that made this clip worthy of the "oohs & ahs"? Honest question, not trying to be snarky...

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                                        • #40
                                          As a rule, nobody can achieve the dressage perfection required by posters on COTH. Not even Totilas when he was winning with Edward Gal ... so the snarks are what is expected on the Dressage forum.

                                          At least the horse's face was not cranked shut.

                                          CdK has written one of my favourite books - a tiny little book called "The
                                          Ethics and Passions of Dressage". It is full of one-liners and small paragraphs
                                          that aspiring dressage riders would enjoy. Real pearls. Just a nice little book to have on one's bookshelf.
                                          Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

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