• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Training holes! The sitting trot

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Original Poster

    #21
    Yup, Sunset Valley is a pretty amazing barn. One of the voices in the Figure 8 was Jessica -our trainer. She was the, "Good jooooooob" at 29 seconds (I just went and checked).

    It's a great atmosphere to get into showing. The barn is very active -from fun days, CCWC, NBHA, right up to Eventing and dressage. You have the company of your mates, the presence of your coaches and lots and lots of encouragement. At that show all together we hauled out 12 horses at least.

    I feel pretty lucky.
    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

    Comment


    • #22
      I think a good question would be are you trying to sit for western dressage or regular?

      Western dressage allows you to jog with more or less no connection.

      Regular will need the connection so that at a clip you can comfortably sit.
      ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
      http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
        I'll get some video maybe on Wednesday if I can find someone with a phone willing to take it and you'll see my sitting trot in all its gory!
        If you do get some new video, close up and working as you put it, try to get longer recorded pieces. It is difficult to tell much from snippets lasting less than a minute.

        I have had a friend record my lessons a few times recently and she was doing just 49 second long "peeks", which weren't very helpful. My instructor wanted everything, start to finish, but said at least 5 minutes of uninterrupted recording was the bare minimum to be useful.

        I get tired quickly right now, since I had the surgery in October and am slowly getting any kind of condition back for myself. So, for me, watching 6 minutes of recording was helpful because I could see what was happening to my position due to just getting tired after 5.5 minutes of rising trot (or 1 minute on a not-so-good day).

        Paula, I have to add that I have so much respect for your effort and how you just put it all out there. I admire that. I HATE watching my recorded rides, and that is when it is just me and my instructor. I hated watching my student teaching videos, too. I wish I could be as fearless as you appear to be in.
        Sheilah

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #24
          NOMIOMI1, regular dressage. Trust me on this; Jessica would not allow no connection for WD. Those show videos are quite sucked back so you really don't see yet the issues I'm having with sitting. The home stretch of the figure eight shows Fella a bit more forward, but of course I'm posting so you don't see the ick. LOL.

          IdahoRider, I'l take your advice and see if I can find someone to record at least 5 minutes. It's free labor so I'll just keep my fingers crossed that somebody can do it for me.

          For me the videos are extremely useful because I'm a type A analytic person so I can see things I could only feel while riding. For example, I'm cocked forward because my hands are locked on the pommel (I was having the most amazing tunnel vision at the time; everything seemed soooooo far away and I felt sooooooo high up ). That is not usually how I ride. However, I see myself posting in front of the vertical sometimes and that's a habit I got into when Fella was so sucked back I was literally trying to pull him along. So I see it and remind myself to sit back and rise between my hands.

          And of course it's a great way to track progress especially when you feel like you're stuck. Fella looks much better than he did in 2011 so we're coming along fine. And you know, what you see is the truth right? Nothing wrong with that!

          Don't be so hard on yourself, Sheila.

          Paula
          He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by IdahoRider View Post
            I have had a friend record my lessons a few times recently and she was doing just 49 second long "peeks", which weren't very helpful. My instructor wanted everything, start to finish, but said at least 5 minutes of uninterrupted recording was the bare minimum to be useful.
            My mother did this once when I asked her to come with me to the barn to video a sale horse. It was like, "here's a diagonal *CUT* here's half a longside *CUT* here's three strides of canter *CUT*."

            Considering the fact that the barn was an hour and a half drive from the house, and the horse had been bathed and groomed to a horse-show shine and put into freshly laundered dress whites, I almost committed homicide.

            Now I behave like a total @$$ when people are taping me. "Here, give me it I just want to see before we continue."

            I honestly don't understand what is so difficult about aiming a camera at a horse, paying attention, and PANNING ALONG, but apparently it is really challenging.
            The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
            Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
            Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
            The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post

              I honestly don't understand what is so difficult about aiming a camera at a horse, paying attention, and PANNING ALONG, but apparently it is really challenging.
              and hence why i dont have video of me...... every time someone would tape it was so badly taped i gave up! no zoom, no panning, shaky, etc.

              as for sitting the trot. i would not specifically worry about it. ... it is part of a progression in riding and from the vids OP is not quite at the point where she and her horse are ready.... more core stability, more correct work by the horse and at some point things will just "click" and it will becomes much easier.

              Comment


              • #27
                i also want to say: just because a team is not perfect does not mean there are "holes" per se..... they are just in a certain place on the progression/timeline that riders/horses go thru to become well trained riders or horses. the OP is at a certain place on that progression. so there may be no "holes" ... they may be exactly where they should be for the time riding/under saddle.

                stay positive and stay focused on learning. dont get sucked into " i am not perfect, i should look like x perfect rider" it is not helpful.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #28
                  mbm,

                  One of the benefits of my getting a horse like Fella was discovering how much of my "skill" was the made horses I was riding. So even though the progress is slow, now I'll progress correctly and honestly. And yes, definitely I have to hold up my end of the bargain and become strong too.

                  I think there may be alot of us who where happily moving along on school horses with no idea how much the horses were doing for us.

                  Paula
                  He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                    mbm,

                    One of the benefits of my getting a horse like Fella was discovering how much of my "skill" was the made horses I was riding. So even though the progress is slow, now I'll progress correctly and honestly. And yes, definitely I have to hold up my end of the bargain and become strong too.

                    I think there may be alot of us who where happily moving along on school horses with no idea how much the horses were doing for us.

                    Paula
                    I think this depends strongly on the temperament of the made horse you're sitting on. I've put a couple friends on my GP horse, who is just about as finished as he can be, and if they're a little unbalanced they either get a slam-on-the-brakes halt or some sort of pirouette variant. There's no doubt in anyone's mind (especially his) that there are rider errors.

                    Now, as it comes to the sitting trot... it's a multivariate problem. Ideally, your horse is going to be swinging through his back, which makes it quite a bit easier to sit (you don't have to "hold" him together with your abs). In the real world, the trot that's easy to sit isn't going to happen until you sit well, so you're stuck in a chicken-or-the-egg situation. Longeing is a great way to break out of that-- you don't have to create your own swinging trot, for example, and you can focus on you.

                    Another useful technique is short bursts of sitting trot interspersed with posting to regain the quality of the trot. You post and, with your core (even when posting!) ask for more swing through the back and more ground cover with a slightly slower tempo. When you achieve a trot that feels elastic, sit for a couple strides. Focus on draping your legs (if you're like the me of several years ago, you're going to want to grip with the thighs to try to keep with your horse. Don't do that) and stacking your core above your hips and your shoulders above your core. To influence the trot, think about filling in that hollow of your lower back with your abs.

                    Approximately 2 strides later (again, if you were me of several years ago), when the trot starts to fall apart, start posting again and regain that elastic trot. Aim for longer and longer stretches of sitting trot, and when you can sit without changing the trot at all, play with lengthening and collecting within the sitting trot.

                    Easy as pie, right?

                    This is one of those things that a) will never get better unless you work on it every day you're in the saddle, and b) is the basis of the rest of the work, so it's important to work at it. Go get 'em.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      welllll..... what you are experiencing may actually just be the difference between a trained horse - who knows how to balance and carry a rider - and a horse that doesnt.

                      even the best of riders dont look so great on horses that are not yet well trained.

                      so what i am saying is: continue to work on both you and Fella - but dont beat yourself up. a lot of what you are experiencing is due to his lack of training.

                      it is "easy" to ride a made horse. it is not so easy to ride a not made horse !

                      and, "holes" implies that you are missing pieces of the puzzle... what i am saying is that you are just at a point on teh progression - and EVERYONE goes thru this progression. you cant become a good rider without traversing it.

                      so, know that as long as you are working with a good trainer and you are working on learning etc you are where you should be at that moment. making it negative doesn't help. are you better today as compared to last year? if so good!

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #31
                        it is "easy" to ride a made horse. it is not so easy to ride a not made horse !

                        Absolutely. And I'm not talking about made dressage horses -that's a whole 'nother CTJ - I mean school horses that can read your half assed cue and give you something. But I am grateful for the experience because it is only making me a better rider.

                        so, know that as long as you are working with a good trainer and you are working on learning etc you are where you should be at that moment. making it negative doesn't help. are you better today as compared to last year? if so good!

                        We are definitely further along than we were. I don't mean to make this sound negative. I am excited by analysis, not discouraged by it. It gives me something tangible to aim for and surpass. It's like a checklist in a way. I'll stop saying "holes" though -because I see what you're saying.

                        Paula
                        He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                          Don't be so hard on yourself, Sheila.
                          Paula
                          Okay, I will work on not being too hard on myself, if you work on acknowledging how much testicular fortitude you have! There aren't many of us that are as open with our sharing as you are, and that is something to be proud of.

                          My gelding will also suck back, and I will also work way harder than I should. As if by posting "bigger" or "faster" I can get more foreword from him. It is slowly getting better for me, as I learn to use my seat more, my hands less and give him a place to move foreword into, rather than asking for forward and then shutting the door on him with grippy legs and restraining hands.

                          When I think of how much my poor horse has put up with, I thank God he is such a good boy.
                          Sheilah

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #33
                            Fair enough Sheilah LOL. I also feel very lucky to have a horse that puts up with stuff too.

                            Paula
                            He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Two things:
                              1. Remember you've got elbows. When you don't bend them, you block your horse.

                              2. You don't really need to sit the trot right now, do you? Get your horse going forward (and strengthen your core), then work on your position and sitting.

                              Says she who can get about 10 strides of a balanced, forward sitting trot before the horse slows down and says "gawd, will you learn to ride ... PLEASE?"
                              __________________________
                              "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                              the best day in ten years,
                              you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Paula, work on your core... You tried so hard to follow Fella that you ended up being a sack of potato on her. Remember, sitting trot is like posting trot - except that your butts do not get out of the saddle. In order to sit well, you have to remain a toned core. The bigger the mover your horse is, the more toned you need to be. That is the only way you can have quiet hands while sitting also. Good luck.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #36
                                  Mp, my horse sighs and says, "Well bless your heart" As for the elbows I don't think I usually ride that way. At the show I was actually holding the pommel. We'll see when we get real video, but I don't think I typically ride with my hands in my crotch. And see, this is why I posted, I really do not need to sit the trot right now do I?! That would not have occurred to me on my own -for my personality the inability to sit the trot was a training hole and I was wrong to think of it that way.

                                  Gloria you are not kidding. I joined Cross Fit after this show because we lost time with Fella wriggling like a fish instead of going in a straight line so they he could stay under me as I shifted and bobbled in the saddle. Have I said it recently but that horse is a real treasure! I realized I couldn't keep my own stability out of weakness. Also, as he is getting more muscular and energetic I can barely post one round without losing my breath! And my young eventer friend whom I asked to take us out on her conditioning runs has to walk and trot -at least half the time walk -with us because I do not have the wind to keep up!

                                  I have never been this weak, not even three summers ago when I rode Janna's Tempi!

                                  So I started walking with a friend about a month ago, and have had 2 sessions with the Cross Fit coach so far. BTW I think CF messes with your head because I've be alot less neurotic about riding lately -no equivocating when mounting, and when Fella shied with me trying to put on a safety vest while on him it didn't freak me out and I didn't grab his face. What's that about?

                                  Paula
                                  He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    One visual that both helps me create the right trot and helps keep my hips from getting frozen (I have a pretty good core, but tight hips) is to think of the horse's belly as a beach ball and keep 'bumping' it up underneath my seat, using my lower legs. It helps me to keep driving the hind legs under my seat so the horse does the carrying.

                                    Also, "your waist is not a joint!"

                                    I am going to try the bucking-strap-on-each-side exercise. I still tend to let my outside hand and elbow sneak forward, and also have to skip my seat to the front of the saddle every few strides as my hips tighten up, and this exercise sounds like it would help a lot with those issues!

                                    I say all this as I am sitting on my new exercise ball at work, after an intense lesson yesterday where we focused on my right hip! Core fitness will help A TON, but make sure to stay flexible also--Pilates can help with both. Or does crossfit do the TRX system? I've found the TRX workouts and Pilates to have very similar benefits. The TRX system may isolate specific muscles a little more.
                                    Custom and semi-custom washable wool felt saddle pads!
                                    http://www.etsy.com/shop/PellMellFeltPads

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      I think the new java install broke youtube for me, so I can't watch the video. I suspect based on what I have seen in the past and still photos that you have seat work to do before you can or should be sitting the trot, particularly since you haven't shared any revelations with us about fixing your seat. All the theory of how your hips should move is fabulous and helpful and will give you an idea of what to work on in the gym (and good for you for doing that - it will change your riding for the better before you know it!) but if your seatbones and hip aren't angled correct and in the correct position, you're not going to be able to achieve the theoretical movements. You have to allow movement in your horse in a way your positive in all images I've seen of your riding to this point don't allow - and the only possible results from that are your horse slowing/stopping/tightening or you bouncing a lot. I speak from my own experience in telling you this!

                                      I would get those longe lessons and really work on your seat - can you shorten and lengthen strides at the walk and canter? Is your butt firmly in the saddle at the canter? Can you do downward transitions solely off your seat? How about figures - do you need reins to turn? Fix those things first. It's not necessary to do so if you have an easy trot to sit, but they are stages of development you're going to have to go through before you're sitting the trot.

                                      I also wouldn't call them training holes for either of you - it's too early in the game for them to be called anything but more fundamentals for you to learn.


                                      For the record - my short backed TB was one I bought partially for his super easy to sit gaits, figuring it would be preferable to learn to ride properly on easy gaits then try to ride more difficult gaits, and three months later I could no longer sit his trot. I can sit big warmblood trots with tons of airtime, and the more airtime my guy gets the easier it is to sit, but he is and will always be a challenge for me I believe, based on the two trainers who can sit about anything I've seen struggle on him....

                                      Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                                      My mother did this once when I asked her to come with me to the barn to video a sale horse. It was like, "here's a diagonal *CUT* here's half a longside *CUT* here's three strides of canter *CUT*."

                                      Considering the fact that the barn was an hour and a half drive from the house, and the horse had been bathed and groomed to a horse-show shine and put into freshly laundered dress whites, I almost committed homicide.

                                      Now I behave like a total @$$ when people are taping me. "Here, give me it I just want to see before we continue."

                                      I honestly don't understand what is so difficult about aiming a camera at a horse, paying attention, and PANNING ALONG, but apparently it is really challenging.
                                      I finally taught my mom to record by actually aiming the video camera at my horse. Now, she ignored my "don't get me a Flip, they're junk - you need a viewfinder, easier to hold and zoom camera to be able to use it, they're more expensive and I'll buy my own because you shouldn't spend that much on me" and she of course got me a Flip and now complains about how hard it is to use.... but she's gotten better at it! Even when the sun is on the screen so she can't quite tell where she's aiming she generally gets my horse in the image. I just made her watch all the bad videos, and that taught her how to get better video without me being an annoying nag. And yes, I am EXTREMELY grateful she is willing to help, and thank her for it regularly!
                                      Originally posted by Silverbridge
                                      If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by cnm161 View Post
                                        Another useful technique is short bursts of sitting trot interspersed with posting to regain the quality of the trot. You post and, with your core (even when posting!) ask for more swing through the back and more ground cover with a slightly slower tempo. When you achieve a trot that feels elastic, sit for a couple strides. Focus on draping your legs (if you're like the me of several years ago, you're going to want to grip with the thighs to try to keep with your horse. Don't do that) and stacking your core above your hips and your shoulders above your core. To influence the trot, think about filling in that hollow of your lower back with your abs.

                                        Approximately 2 strides later (again, if you were me of several years ago), when the trot starts to fall apart, start posting again and regain that elastic trot. Aim for longer and longer stretches of sitting trot, and when you can sit without changing the trot at all, play with lengthening and collecting within the sitting trot.

                                        Easy as pie, right?

                                        This is one of those things that a) will never get better unless you work on it every day you're in the saddle, and b) is the basis of the rest of the work, so it's important to work at it. Go get 'em.
                                        I think this is really good advice. Quality vs quantity. It will also keep your horse happier, when things start go south, start posting again and try again later when you are more relaxed and you have the horse working over his back again.

                                        Also, keep reminding yourself that you have moved past the pokey shuffling jog stage and you are making progress!

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Get an extra long bucking strap, so you will have something to hold onto for balance in the sitting trot/spooking(shying). The longer bucking straps, aloow your hands some flexibilty to the horses mouth and your balance.

                                          To gain confidence in your sitting trot, do rising trot on 1/2 a circle and sitting on the other half. Eventually build on that and the goal is to be able to do sitting trot anywhere and for however long you want to sit. Also keep in mind it is easier on a horse that is in front of your leg.

                                          For me, on my welsh cob, I have to ride him very forward--think "auction trot"
                                          -over animated. Because he is happy to putz along! I try to ride him in all his gaits in "auction mode".

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X