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NAWD Test warning: The scores literally don't add up

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  • #41
    Originally posted by netg View Post
    Says who? What makes them the standard WD organization for the US?

    The USEF doesn't appear to recognize them. I wonder if the USEF has given them permission to claim credit for the WD tests which I believe existed before the WDAA, or if they actually ARE the WDAA's tests and they let the USEF or the Morgans use them.

    USDF made it clear they don't consider them a standard organization, that's for sure. http://www.usdf.org/press/news/view-news.asp?news=643

    Edit: Don't just take the word of random strangers on the internet spouting things off as if they are facts. I can't find anything which recognizes WDAA, but am willing to believe they are recognized by someone if the proper source is cited. Until I see that, I will assume the statement to be untrue, since I do have evidence that at least the USDF doesn't recognize them.
    I'm speaking from experience of dealing with the organization, not from the word of random strangers on the internet. And the fact that they use the same tests as USEF speaks volumes as well. AND the Canadian WD association has aligned with them.
    As far as if USEF knows that WDAA (and now WSDAC) are using the same tests - it's likely a similar agreement to that which they have with the EC. The tests are the same, the logos are different. Also the USEF WD tests say "Reprinted with permission" and the WDAA tests say "Copyright 2012 WDAA" so it might actually be that the USEF is using WDAA's tests.

    As well, speaking of random strangers, it appears that you aren't really too pleased with NAWD...

    So I'd say that WDAA has positioned itself as the top dog in the WD association hierarchy - especially if USEF is using their tests, and Canada.

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by ThreeFigs View Post
      So it sounds like WDAA might have the upper hand in becoming the "official" national WD organization?

      AFAIK, there are three different organizations vying for the honor. "Cowboy" dressage, WDAA and NAWD. Confusing.
      Yes, but to the best of my knowledge, WDAA is the only one affiliated with USEF, which (cross fingers) would require a bit more professionalism (in formatting and proofing, if not in customer service).
      www.ayliprod.com
      Equine Photography in the Northeast

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      • #43
        Three groups came to USDF convention to attempt to get support from USDF.

        I perceive until these three groups get together and decide what is best for the horse and the community there will be issues.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #44
          If WDAA will recognize that training & showing in low levels while riding two handed in a curb is the antithesis of low level dressage and make their rules align with that: I'll go with WDAA. The rules in NAWD make more 'dressage' sense, customer service and proofreading skills aside.

          Comment


          • #45
            Well complaining on an internet forum is not likely to make much change in the rules of any organization.
            As I stated in a previous post, they seem to me quite open to suggestions on rules and are looking to improve, so a quick email perhaps asking "why?" and suggesting they align the bit rules more with dressage should be well received. I'm assuming they've had lots of feedback on this, and in my experience running the tests with such rules in place, there certainly hasn't been any improper use of a curb and certainly the riders with snaffles have done the same, if not better than those in curbs.
            Also consider the people WD is trying to attract - those who are used to having horses in a curb bit by 5 years of age. If they are trying to show in open shows, or reining, along with the WD, they may find it too difficult in the training to switch between a mandatory curb and a mandatory snaffle on the same horse and may choose not to do WD. It is an up and coming discipline and IMO needs to be as welcoming as possible to attract people. A curb bit in good hands is far less harsh than a snaffle in poor ones, IMO.

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by ~DQ~ View Post
              I'm speaking from experience of dealing with the organization, not from the word of random strangers on the internet. And the fact that they use the same tests as USEF speaks volumes as well. AND the Canadian WD association has aligned with them.
              As far as if USEF knows that WDAA (and now WSDAC) are using the same tests - it's likely a similar agreement to that which they have with the EC. The tests are the same, the logos are different. Also the USEF WD tests say "Reprinted with permission" and the WDAA tests say "Copyright 2012 WDAA" so it might actually be that the USEF is using WDAA's tests.

              As well, speaking of random strangers, it appears that you aren't really too pleased with NAWD...

              So I'd say that WDAA has positioned itself as the top dog in the WD association hierarchy - especially if USEF is using their tests, and Canada.
              You still haven't answered - who has claimed them THE organization? Are those actually WDAA's tests, not USEF's? Because the USEF doesn't give them credit on their page. Where is this credit to WDAA? Should they be PO'd that USEF isn't giving them credit, or are they using the USEF's tests which are approved for Morgan breed shows? (If the latter, I think that is a smart move on their part - you want to get approved/recognized, start by using tests which are already approved.)

              I know nothing about NAWD and don't know why you claim that, but I just found their website and it claims they are a 2012 affiliate of the USEF. I found no such claims on the WDAA's site, despite your claiming they're the standard body for North America.

              I haven't had the experience with any of these organizations to have an opinion on any of them, and don't care what your personal opinion is on any of them. However, don't claim one is "The Standard" unless you can give the evidence that they are. You apparently can't.

              ETA: I'm not trying to fight, and am perfectly willing that to you that WDAA seems to be coming out as top dog at least in your opinion, especially since I have none. I'm just wondering if any organizations other than their affiliated Canadian organization, claim that?

              Originally posted by ccoronios View Post
              Yes, but to the best of my knowledge, WDAA is the only one affiliated with USEF, which (cross fingers) would require a bit more professionalism (in formatting and proofing, if not in customer service).
              Where is the info saying WDAA is affiliated with USEF? The NAWD site says they're a 2012 affiliate, and the WDAA says nothing I could find on their site. I can't find reference to either from searching the (admittedly unfriendly) USEF site. Did the USEF decide not to recognize any after the USDF gave their official stance?

              I have no dog in this fight, I just would like to see an end to misinformation, and want to see proof of the claims of recognition/being the standard/affiliation if they are true - or stop claiming things which aren't.

              ETA: The only thing I really have an opinion about when it comes to western dressage is that I hope the curb is no longer allowed at lower levels and that everything can be used truly for the improvement of the horse, including impulsion and overall body development like classical dressage. My initial dressage instruction came from a cowboy who taught contact, suppleness, impulsion, etc. It was not at all geared toward Dressage in a show ring, as it was to help my stiff, tight, poor moving QH, and improve her it did.
              If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
              -meupatdoes

              Comment


              • #47
                The only one which has usEf on their tests is the WD division of the Morgans. For the WD rules, go to USEF.org then rules then MO division and scroll to near end of their directives. The others pay $$ to advertise themselves with the usEf, but are not yet a division. Call usEf to find out the present status.
                I.D.E.A. yoda

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                • #48
                  This from a member of the WDAA advisory board.

                  The WDAA wrote the current Morgan tests, which were then adopted by the USEF for the Morgan division only.

                  The WDAA is a USEF affiliate. So is NAWD. Any group can be an affiliate by paying a fee. Neither is recognized as a National Affiliate representing Western Dressage as a recognized discipline. This may change soon.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Well, the test copies I have (handed out at the 2012 "Train the Trainers" symposium) do not match the 2013 tests -- then I noticed the hand-out tests had either 2011 or 2012 copyrights. Older tests. The WDAA folks did mention new tests were being written, sooo...

                    Sigh. I just don't care any more. If it's ONLY in the Morgan division of USEF, then I guess only Morgans can perform WD?

                    If WD is to be an open to all breeds discipline, who's gonna be the governing organization? WDAA, NAWD, or something else? I'll just wait and see how things shake out.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Not only the scoring

                      We have a show coming up and offered these as new classes. Thank you for alerting me to this. In going over the tests I found out they changed one, changed the coefficients in several and alot of the maximum points are wrong. They did change some since I pulled them up a month ago, but they still are not right! At least the very lowest three are okay.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        I think this is all just hilarious!
                        Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Thanks for the heads up!!! I would not have thought of checking the max possible numbers without this thread. The arabian show I judged today had those tests with the incorrect divisors.
                          www.settlementfarm.us

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                          • Original Poster

                            #53
                            The WDAA wrote a move in a test that was E-F but didn't indicate there was a change of rein at F. So do you ride around the end of the arena past A, or do a short diagonal?


                            https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater


                            I guess you have to have 'feel' to know where to go

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              They have no understanding of dressage or how to write tests (who in the world approved these "tests"?), yet they somehow have convinced the USEF and USDF that there should be western dressage. In spite of my post above, I am actually concerned about the future of dressage in this country.
                              Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by katarine View Post
                                The WDAA wrote a move in a test that was E-F but didn't indicate there was a change of rein at F. So do you ride around the end of the arena past A, or do a short diagonal?


                                https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater


                                I guess you have to have 'feel' to know where to go
                                the comments on some of those posts are truly sad and frightening.... i too worry about the future of dressage after reading some of that!

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Snaffle or curb

                                  We are offering the NAWD tests. A rider contacted me about the bits. I guess in QH shows it depends on the horses age. I looked it up and the rules for this group and it's all snaffle or bitless bridles until getting a high score in their level 4.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Thanks DQ.
                                    I am one of the founders of WSDAC, and agree wholeheartedly on the post. We highly recommend that riders use a snaffle or bit-less in the existing tests in our rule book. We are not forcing anyone to use one bit or another. Our purpose as an association is to educate and attract new riders; not to dictate, or to make out a comparison chart pitting one group against another, and making it a bias sales pitch from it.
                                    As for NAWD being "North American". we will not support it. We have many reasons to do so, and will not publicly discuss it.
                                    IMO the post from NAWD that Randy Byers posted (who IS on the board of directors of NAWD) just adds to the confusion that is being fed the folks who support them. How can you go from E-F then even think of making a left angle turn? Many of the USEF Dressage tests are written the same way and there is no confusion. It is just common sense. I have often found that using a search engine to find out the information regarding individuals is very helpful.
                                    BTW, a USEF Affiliation gives no group a claim to being anything other than a group that had paid the USEF a membership of $200. So that has no bearing on anything.
                                    Elaine Ward

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by katarine View Post
                                      The WDAA wrote a move in a test that was E-F but didn't indicate there was a change of rein at F. So do you ride around the end of the arena past A, or do a short diagonal?


                                      https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater


                                      I guess you have to have 'feel' to know where to go
                                      OH.

                                      MY GOD.
                                      The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                                      Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
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                                      The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

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                                      • Original Poster

                                        #59
                                        Originally posted by Elatu View Post
                                        Thanks DQ.
                                        I am one of the founders of WSDAC, and agree wholeheartedly on the post. We highly recommend that riders use a snaffle or bit-less in the existing tests in our rule book. We are not forcing anyone to use one bit or another. Our purpose as an association is to educate and attract new riders; not to dictate, or to make out a comparison chart pitting one group against another, and making it a bias sales pitch from it.
                                        As for NAWD being "North American". we will not support it. We have many reasons to do so, and will not publicly discuss it.
                                        IMO the post from NAWD that Randy Byers posted (who IS on the board of directors of NAWD) just adds to the confusion that is being fed the folks who support them. How can you go from E-F then even think of making a left angle turn? Many of the USEF Dressage tests are written the same way and there is no confusion. It is just common sense. I have often found that using a search engine to find out the information regarding individuals is very helpful.
                                        BTW, a USEF Affiliation gives no group a claim to being anything other than a group that had paid the USEF a membership of $200. So that has no bearing on anything.
                                        What is WSDAC and who are you? If you're going to gossip about who Randy Byers is, and then suggest that you "have often found that using a search engine to find out the information regarding individuals is very helpful."

                                        Who are you? I'm guessing you're Elaine Ward, and that's just fine. But suggesting folks should ferret out others while hiding your own identity as the President of an Association; bad form.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Katarine: Ah, my signature line was not turned on, and I did not see that. I don't post on here much (edited to add, and I can't get it to work!), and did not realize my annonimity. All the other pages I frequent has that information on it. Thanks for mentioning that.
                                          I was merely mentioning that it was a NAWD BOD member who made the comment on their page. I am pointing out the fact that USEF Dressage Tests have the same indication in their tests as the USEF Western Dressage Tests regarding the E-F situation. This movement is seen several times in the Dressage Tests, and I have never heard of anyone complaining about it. The pattern appears to be quite clear, as it is almost impossible to make an awkward left angle turn at F after approaching from the diagonal line. Clearly the test indicates your procedure to A and a RIGHT circle at E.
                                          I have found google clearly helpful and figuring out who everyone is. There are many new names and it's great to figure out who they are.
                                          The name WSDAC has been spelled out I believe a few times already on this thread. Western Style Dressage Association of Canada. Anyone with any questions may contact us at info@westernstyledressage.ca or visit our website at http://westernstyledressage.ca
                                          Last edited by Elatu; May. 10, 2013, 09:52 PM. Reason: How do I turn on my signature line?
                                          Elaine Ward

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