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NAWD Test warning: The scores literally don't add up

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  • #21
    Katarine, if it's the way you handled the situation on the phone with this NAWD guy, no wonder you didn't get the answer you were looking for.

    I'm not part of this non-sense pseudo dressage western anyway... I was just trying to see where the error was on the tests... and see if I could help.

    Anyway, my only advice now is that you should re-post this thread on the Western forum, you would gather more people who might have show these tests.
    ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

    Originally posted by LauraKY
    I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
    HORSING mobile training app

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    • Original Poster

      #22
      Nope, what I'm doing here is venting and raising awareness in a way NAWD couldn't be bothered to do. After all, no one is perfect. Just ask 'em.

      If you prefer that the President of your local GMO just shrug and say '**** happens, sorry" then maybe we're not for you. I feel bad that our competitors got yanked around by faulty tests and are now trying to understand what happened. Excuse me for giving a damn.

      Comment


      • #23
        Why not just use the WDAA tests?

        They are fairly standardized as now Canada is using them as well, and the scores all add up correctly. With 7 collectives they are just a bit of a PITA to get to work in FVD, but otherwise are good tests.

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        • Original Poster

          #24
          I don't like two hands on a curb at low levels.

          Comment


          • #25
            Speaking from experience, very few even show in a curb, and those that do are mostly 1 handed.

            Also any judge worth their salt would mark down a horse being ridden incorrectly in a curb.

            Just my $0.02..

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by mbm View Post
              katarine honestly - your posts don't make much sense, and the hostility doesn't help make it clearer.

              getting mad at folks for trying to help is just bad form.
              I don't get what is unclear.

              The tests don't add up correctly.

              To me this pretty clearly means that if you add up all of the actual possible points, the result doesn't match what the test says are the possible points. Thus the dividing number the test tells you to use is wrong.

              Ergo, the problem.
              The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
              Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
              Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
              The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

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              • #27
                Originally posted by katarine View Post
                Her response in their FB group?
                Speaking from experience, this stuff is Far more difficult than anyone understands. I know we had a time when our fronts and backs did not match. Mistakes happen. I am always glad when someone finds an error and brings it to my attention because nobody is perfect.

                and

                We had at least 4 people review them but still missed stuff. Not to mention managing revisions and versions and uploads. I'm sure that the WDAA and the USEF proofed the Morgan tests many times too. Like I say, it's easy to miss stuff and I feel their pain


                I guess I don't hear any real apology in there. I hear "hey, we tried, mistakes happen'.
                Well, I for one, am with you.

                Adding up the possible points is ARITHMETIC. I am guessing due to the nature of tests it is simply adding up "how many tens", unless we have .5's in western dressage.

                Come on people.
                What is 10 plus 10 plus 10 plus 10 plus (10x2) plus 10 plus 10?

                Have a second grader help you if you're stumped.
                The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

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                • #28
                  I agree, the FB response stopped just short of an apology. That is bad form. It's also typical of people who haven't been schooled in the art of customer service (or raised with an emphasis on manner).

                  Sometimes, big or small mistake, you own what's yours, apologize and move on. But *not* apologizing promptly is sure to make someone come after you to extract one. And if you weren't in the mood to humble yourself before.....well, it's really going to be no fun having that apology wrung out of you.
                  The armchair saddler
                  Politically Pro-Cat

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                  • Original Poster

                    #29
                    She/Jen has since heard me roar and fully apologized. However when part of the solution is "I'm not going to email anymore tests" it's still halfway crabby. So don't make it a game of chutes and ladders to download them. And no, don't tell me it's easy now. It wasn't on March 9 when I wanted them, and it was a jungle path through their site to find them and print them.

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                    • #30
                      Thank you for the warning. We won't be using these tests until June, but I will check them carefully before using them at our show. I think entering them into FVD should avoid any arithmetic errors on the hard copy tests.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                        Come on people.
                        What is 10 plus 10 plus 10 plus 10 plus (10x2) plus 10 plus 10?
                        Have a second grader help you if you're stumped.
                        But make sure they have a calculator before asking.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          So it sounds like WDAA might have the upper hand in becoming the "official" national WD organization?

                          AFAIK, there are three different organizations vying for the honor. "Cowboy" dressage, WDAA and NAWD. Confusing.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            At this point, the only usEf w.d. tests are those of the morgen group.
                            I.D.E.A. yoda

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Completely hypothetical (I'm not associated in any way with a show management team or anything)....

                              If someone were to use this test that has the botched number on it, what would you do to determine the score? Would you just correct it - scribble out the 290 and insert the proper "total points possible" number and then divide by that? Did Jen or anyone at NAWD give an answer on what to do with the incorrect test sheets that are out there?

                              I can see how changing it up now would screw with their year-end awards if they do them...some folks were scored with the incorrect tally, some weren't....scores could be seriously screwed up.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by ideayoda View Post
                                At this point, the only usEf w.d. tests are those of the morgen group.
                                I don't think so. I have copies of several WDAA tests and clearly printed at the bottom of the tests is "United Ststes Equestrian Federation" and their address, with a copyright 2011 by USEF, all rights reserved, etc.

                                Now maybe these ARE the Morgan tests, but my copies are clearly marked as WDAA and USEF sanctioned tests. We have national organizations for dressage, H/J, reiners, and all the different breeds. Again, WHO has emerged as THE national Western Dressage organization?

                                Anyone know?

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                                • #36
                                  Well, Oberon, I'd double check the "maximum points" and go by the actual total. I'd not accept faulty math from the organization that sent me botched tests.

                                  And I'd let the organization know, as Katarine did.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by ThreeFigs View Post
                                    I don't think so. I have copies of several WDAA tests and clearly printed at the bottom of the tests is "United Ststes Equestrian Federation" and their address, with a copyright 2011 by USEF, all rights reserved, etc.

                                    Now maybe these ARE the Morgan tests, but my copies are clearly marked as WDAA and USEF sanctioned tests. We have national organizations for dressage, H/J, reiners, and all the different breeds. Again, WHO has emerged as THE national Western Dressage organization?

                                    Anyone know?
                                    Do the tests match what's on this page?
                                    http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/breedsd...sageTests.aspx
                                    If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
                                    -meupatdoes

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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by leheath View Post
                                      Thank you for the warning. We won't be using these tests until June, but I will check them carefully before using them at our show. I think entering them into FVD should avoid any arithmetic errors on the hard copy tests.
                                      FVD wont catch the errors. You have to input the total. Which is why whenever I am using new tests, I always add them up myself. It takes a minute, at most, per test.



                                      Also with regards to the WDAA versus USEF tests - they are exactly the same with the exception of the different logo on top. WDAA is the standard WD organization for the US, and now the Canadian association is also affiliated with them. For what I've seen and from my dealings with them, they are a very professional organization and any issues you have with any rules of theirs I think they would be willing to discuss. Including curbs at lower levels, which is fairly close to the chopping block already from what I've heard...

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                                      • Original Poster

                                        #39
                                        Originally posted by ThreeFigs View Post
                                        Well, Oberon, I'd double check the "maximum points" and go by the actual total. I'd not accept faulty math from the organization that sent me botched tests.

                                        And I'd let the organization know, as Katarine did.
                                        That's what we did, sort of. We didn't actually catch it at the GMO level, as the total of 290 would work on Level 2 test 2, for example, it was just an inflated score 79 (real score: 74).

                                        The other three tests; I've emailed our participants and copied Jen Johnson of NAWD and sent them to her for assistance if they cannot cipher their actual scores against whatever the ACTUAL total maximum score should be (you see, they not only corrected the total max points...they changed the test itself, too). And without the actual scored tests in front of me, I cannot hazard at adding their points per maneuver to double check the scorer's addition, so it falls to the participant, unfortunately.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by ~DQ~ View Post
                                          Also with regards to the WDAA versus USEF tests - they are exactly the same with the exception of the different logo on top. WDAA is the standard WD organization for the US, and now the Canadian association is also affiliated with them. For what I've seen and from my dealings with them, they are a very professional organization and any issues you have with any rules of theirs I think they would be willing to discuss. Including curbs at lower levels, which is fairly close to the chopping block already from what I've heard...
                                          Says who? What makes them the standard WD organization for the US?

                                          The USEF doesn't appear to recognize them. I wonder if the USEF has given them permission to claim credit for the WD tests which I believe existed before the WDAA, or if they actually ARE the WDAA's tests and they let the USEF or the Morgans use them.

                                          USDF made it clear they don't consider them a standard organization, that's for sure. http://www.usdf.org/press/news/view-news.asp?news=643

                                          Edit: Don't just take the word of random strangers on the internet spouting things off as if they are facts. I can't find anything which recognizes WDAA, but am willing to believe they are recognized by someone if the proper source is cited. Until I see that, I will assume the statement to be untrue, since I do have evidence that at least the USDF doesn't recognize them.
                                          If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
                                          -meupatdoes

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