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Dressage Finals open to US citizens only

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  • #81
    Paula, I think a non-citizen can ride in the Western dressage national championships.
    A helmet saved my life.

    2017 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!

    Comment


    • #82
      Originally posted by Gloria View Post
      Well sorry for the gramma errors. I agree you are expert in English, or at least when comparing to me. I am awed. And yes, I am definitely more qualified than you are in this matter about nationalization and what it takes, since I went through the process.
      Well considering that you TOOK this oath that apparently I cannot understand but you can, I thought perhaps you'd remember what it was you actually swore.
      The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
      Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
      Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
      The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

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      • #83
        Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
        Well considering that you TOOK this oath that apparently I cannot understand but you can, I thought perhaps you'd remember what you actually swore.
        So what? I agree your English is better than mine. Perhaps your memory is better than mine. Still not happy? Honestly, meupatdoes, learn to light up a bit. Not everyone is out to attack you, so really there is no reason for you to wantonly attack others, and I'm not talking about this threat alone.

        Comment


        • #84
          BTW that citizenship rule applies to young horses as well:

          ELIGIBILITY: Current USEF/FEI/WBFSH rules will be followed. Riders who are non-U.S. citizens will be allowed to ride in the Selection Trials, but the horse may or may not be eligible for the Short List or entry to the World Breeding Championships as representing the United States if ridden by a non-U.S. citizen (final decision regarding eligibility to be determined by USEF and the WBFSH. All horses MUST be U.S.-owned.
          A helmet saved my life.

          2017 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!

          Comment


          • #85
            Originally posted by Bristol Bay View Post
            Paula, I think a non-citizen can ride in the Western dressage national championships.
            Am I just misunderstanding your humor, Bristol Bay?

            Paula
            He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

            Comment


            • #86
              Originally posted by Gloria View Post
              So what? I agree your English is better than mine. Perhaps your memory is better than mine. Still not happy? Honestly, meupatdoes, learn to light up a bit. Not everyone is out to attack you, so really there is no reason for you to wantonly attack others, and I'm not talking about this threat alone.
              I'm sorry, it is patently ridiculous to go on and on about what an expert you are on the citizenship oath and insist that no one else can understand the implications of the process, when you can't even get a fundamental verb of the oath right.

              But hey, I guess you swore it, not me.
              Hopefully you muttered the right word.
              The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
              Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
              Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
              The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

              Comment


              • #87
                Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                Velvet, I took this, "Don't like our country? Don't become a citizen." to mean that you were of the impression that people who don't become citizens don't like America. Then you say, "My feeling is that they do not like it ENOUGH to become a citizen." which makes me think that you are making that judgement. To which I say, the judgement is hasty and not correct.


                Paula
                Then I'm missing something here. If you really like the US and you live here for a long time, why are you not becoming a citizens? Maybe you don't like it enough to give up another citizenship or you don't like it enough that you want to called a citizen of the United States. That's the only way I can see it. If you live somewhere and really like/love that place, why wouldn't you become a citizen (or at least try)? You've obviously decided to leave your other country and at least try the US on for size. If it doesn't fit, that means you like your other country better.

                I'm not seeing any other reason when I know so many people who have come here and have become citizens because they feel this is home, meaning they really like and want to live here and find it worth the effort to become a citizen.

                I already also said I see that as a matter of conscience people might not want to become a citizen. I've made those two points separately for different reasons in this conversation (topic) in response to different statements made out here.
                "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                Comment


                • #88
                  Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                  Am I just misunderstanding your humor, Bristol Bay?

                  Paula
                  I think she's saying you can go the Western Dressage route if you want to compete for a national title while not being a citizen of the US.
                  "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                    I'm sorry, it is patently ridiculous to go on and on about what an expert you are on the citizenship oath and insist that no one else can understand the implications of the process, when you can't even get a fundamental verb of the oath right.

                    But hey, I guess you swore it, not me.
                    Hopefully you muttered the right word.
                    Listen. Unlike some others, I don't claim to be expert of anything. I only claim to know matters that I do know. The matter is not the oath itself. The matter is with the implication behind the oath.

                    I took that oath extremely seriously. I know what it means. Yes, emotionally I have loyalty to the native country that I was born in, raised, and still love; yes, when I took that oath, I am saying to USA that, if US should have war against my native county, my loyalty should be with USA, and that might mean to take up arms against my native country.

                    Do you not understand how serious this is?

                    Yes, many people simply went through the motion. But if you are not even willing to go through the motion, what does that mean?

                    Let me ask you a simple question: if you don't want to be a citizen of any country, how can you hope to represent that country?

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Originally posted by Velvet View Post
                      Then I'm missing something here. If you really like the US and you live here for a long time, why are you not becoming a citizens? Maybe you don't like it enough to give up another citizenship or you don't like it enough that you want to called a citizen of the United States. That's the only way I can see it. If you live somewhere and really like/love that place, why wouldn't you become a citizen (or at least try)? You've obviously decided to leave your other country and at least try the US on for size. If it doesn't fit, that means you like your other country better.

                      I'm not seeing any other reason when I know so many people who have come here and have become citizens because they feel this is home, meaning they really like and want to live here and find it worth the effort to become a citizen.
                      Perhaps some people would like for their children to be able to have dual citizenship, or they travel/work frequently between the countries or whatever else.

                      I wish at least one of my parents had retained their old citizenship at least until the time of my birth so I would have had the option.
                      The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                      Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                      Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                      The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Velvet, I thought I explained that I wasn't willing to take an oath for reasons of religious belief. There was no maybe about it. Did you miss that in our discussion? Quakers, along with a number of peace churches like the Mennonites, don't swear oaths and don't take up arms. There are other reasons why others do not take the citizenship route that have nothing to do with not liking the US.

                        As for Bristol Bay, s/he's always busting chops about Western Dressage and I'm trying to figure out whether this poster just has an especially dry sense of humor that I don't get (this has been known to happen), or if this poster is just being a snob and a meanie.

                        ETA: RE Let me ask you a simple question: if you don't want to be a citizen of any country, how can you hope to represent that country?

                        Easy. I do not equate citizenship with love. Gosh, you know people who are born citizens and have only contempt for the US. And heck, just in the news you heard about 2 young men who went the distance and became citizens and had no love for this country.

                        Paula
                        He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          BTW, for the old reason we talked about (being the oath), even without that your country of origin might have that expectation of you. Which would mean taking an oath to take up arms to defend your country is something that is already assumed by your current country.

                          Makes me think that if this is an issue, and both have identical expectations, it might be that you would want to not chose either country to live in and be participating part of the systems they have in place.
                          "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                            Velvet, I thought I explained that I wasn't willing to take an oath for reasons of religious belief. There was no maybe about it. Did you miss that in our discussion? Quakers, along with a number of peace churches like the Mennonites, don't swear oaths and don't take up arms. There are other reasons why others do not take the citizenship route that have nothing to do with not liking the US.

                            Paula
                            Our conversation is now going in circles. I said I understood and could appreciate that. I also think that if you love this country, you would have weighed that decision carefully before making your choice--so you live with the consequences of that decision.
                            "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Originally posted by Gloria View Post
                              Listen. Unlike some others, I don't claim to be expert of anything. I only claim to know matters that I do know. The matter is not the oath itself. The matter is with the significance behind the oath.

                              Let me ask you a simple question: if you don't want to be a citizen of any country, how can you hope to represent that country?
                              No, the matter actually IS the oath.

                              The word is very important. It is why in many cases it is impossible to have dual citizenship. Because of that "ABJURE." It is also why my mother was denied her request to renew her German passport and have dual citizenship, which in turn prevented me from having the option of dual citizenship.

                              So tell me some more about naturalization crap I can't possibly understand. But for the TIMING of my mother saying "abjure," I would have two passports.

                              And, to cite a random country, I would be perfectly happy to represent Tahiti in the Olympics. I don't want to give up my US citizenship, but if for some reason Tahiti takes enough interest in my riding skills to let me go to bat for them, I'm happy to oblige. It is a sports competition, not war.
                              The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                              Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                              Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                              The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Velvet, I became a Quaker here in the United States. The US has been a haven for the Religious Society of Friends from the beginning. And I did indeed weigh my convincement carefully. All I am saying is do not assume that my not wanting to take an oath and bear arms is some measure of issues I have with the USA.

                                Paula
                                He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  Only one word, meupatdoes, you are such a self-important, entitled, the-world-owes-you-everything person. I'm not going to continue with you this non-sense argument.

                                  If you want to argue to allow non-citizens to represent US, at least learn from Paula. She raises a valid reason "why" she cannot go through the oath ceremony, and that is not because she prefers to be citizen of another country.

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Originally posted by Gloria View Post
                                    Only one word, meupatdoes, you are such a self-important, entitled, the-world-owes-you-everything person.
                                    You'll note that that is more than one word.

                                    You'll also note that I have not called you one name.
                                    The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                                    Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                                    Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                                    The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      And there, I thought this was all about dressage competitions. Didn't know that was an audition for the cavalry...

                                      BTW, one does not have to be a citizen to join the army.
                                      One has to pick one over the other citizenship - should it apply - to join the army...

                                      But you HAVE to be citizen to ride circles in the Dressage arena - or over striped poles - now, come again and explain the logic.

                                      other than that - considering I took a 20minute nap and you guys added 2 pages to this 'topic' - seems some of you are in need of some water sports...

                                      You have to be pretty uptight to make the leap from riding in a competition to 'defending the country'

                                      Which, btw, is equally stupid. There are enough 'natives' that plot against the US, while enough foreigners are willing to do what is called for.

                                      Originally posted by Velvet View Post
                                      BTW, for the old reason we talked about (being the oath), even without that your country of origin might have that expectation of you. Which would mean taking an oath to take up arms to defend your country is something that is already assumed by your current country.

                                      Makes me think that if this is an issue, and both have identical expectations, it might be that you would want to not chose either country to live in and be participating part of the systems they have in place.

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        Originally posted by Velvet View Post
                                        BTW, for the old reason we talked about (being the oath), even without that your country of origin might have that expectation of you. Which would mean taking an oath to take up arms to defend your country is something that is already assumed by your current country.
                                        Apples and oranges.

                                        A - The fact that your native country has an "expectation" of you (or, more likely, a LAW requireing you) to do something is VERY differnt from voluntarily taking an OATH to do the same thing for a different country.

                                        B- It doesn't matter whether you take an oath of citizenship or not. If you are resident in the US (and male) you can be required to take up arms to defend the US. My father (also a permanent resident) had to have a draft card. There have even been cases of people in the US on a valid tourist visa being drafted. [And if he ever, before age 52, set foot in Egypt (where he was born), he would have been immediately inducted into the Egyptian Army.]
                                        Last edited by Janet; Apr. 24, 2013, 03:59 PM. Reason: Egypt
                                        Janet

                                        chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                                          But you HAVE to be citizen to ride circles in the Dressage arena - or over striped poles - now, come again and explain the logic.
                                          Not at all.

                                          You have to be a US citizen to WIN the US National Championship.
                                          Janet

                                          chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

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