• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Dressage Finals open to US citizens only

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Your post strikes me as very aggressive. How does not wanting to take an oath translate to don't like your country? Am I misreading this?

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

    Comment


    • #62
      "Very aggressive" because I was addressing the comment about people NOT wanting to become citizens because it requires an oath? What the fruitbat? (You're not a victim out here. You started a discussion. This is a discussion.)

      The point was, that if this is a part of what you have to do to become a citizen of ANY country, and you feel that you cannot take an oath to defend that country, then that is a CHOICE you make. You decide not to become one. End of story. No whining about not being one anymore--and missing out on the benefits of being one. If that's "aggressive" to you...I think you need to take a hard look at the definition of the term, let alone the word "very."

      It was a plain statement of fact. It's a choice. Plain and simple. No anger or attacking going on. (Just so you know, that should be accompanied by my shoulders shrugging.)
      "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Velvet View Post
        "Very aggressive" because I was addressing the comment about people NOT wanting to become citizens because it requires an oath? What the fruitbat?

        The point was, that if this is a part of what you have to do to become a citizen of ANY country, and you feel that you cannot, then that is a CHOICE you make. You decide not to become one. End of story. No whining about not being one anymore. If that's aggressive to you...I think you need to really take a hard look at the definition of the term, let alone the word "very."

        It was a plain statement of fact. It's a choice. Plain and simple. No anger or attacking going on.
        Of course people can choose not to become citizens.

        This does not mean they have to agree that every decision USDF makes (with their membership money, btw) about how they are treated based on their citizenship or lack-thereof is fair.

        Please to be understanding the thread.
        The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
        Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
        Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
        The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

        Comment


        • #64
          Well there are alot of reasons people don't want to take the oath. Mine are because I'm a Quaker and we don't take oaths, and we're pacifists so I'm certainly not going to swear to bear arms for anyone's sake. But I am sure there are many reasons why people don't want to take the oath -reasons I may not even think of but will be happy to give people the benefit of the doubt. I certainly would not assume they don't like America.

          I do think it's a valid concern when posters point out that all along we are able to support dressage in the US with our money and our time and then you hit this bit (if you're that cool that you're even in the running).

          Paula
          He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

          Comment


          • #65
            I guess we have to agree to disagree. I totally understand not taking an oath for personal issues. I get that. There are ones I wouldn't want to take. In that case, I live with the consequences of not taking it. I keep my conscience, but lose something else, but that's a personal decision and one I respect.

            As for the awards, I think they are just aligning themselves with all the other countries. Like I said, I think people should ask someone like Steffen, who obviously has won just about everything, was not a citizen, and now it one. Before he could win every title we had and never be on the Olympic team representing us. He had to win things here to qualify to go back to Germany and then compete over there in their finals for team selection. It was something he lived with. It would be very interesting to see how he views this subject.
            "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

            Comment


            • #66
              I think that a lot of people do not realize how hard it is to become a citizen, and how much time and money it takes. Its not a matter of just taking an oath.

              I have been in the US 8 years, and am jyst now about to get a 10yr greencard. USCIS is not that easy to deal with...

              Comment


              • #67
                I am a Permanent Resident.

                Have been for over 50 years.

                (Velvet, I DO like the US. There are a number of reasons, some purely rational, some more emotional/psychological, why I choose not to become a citizen)

                It does not bother me at all that I can't win a "national championship" in an FEI discipline. We all get a good laugh at my sister(also a Permanent Resident) winning "Over the Walls", while the second place rider (highest placed US citizen) got the big trophy.

                She was doing well enough that she would have been on the US training list (or whatever it is called) if she were a US citizen. That was slightly more disappointing. (But on the other hand,, she didn't have to worry about whether or not she was p!$$!ng off Mark Philips.)

                The more frustrating thing (espeically for me, as I was not anywhere near FEI levels) was the FEI rule that, in order to compete in lower level USEF jumpers, dressage or eventing, I HAD to also be a member of my "home" National Federation. Luckily that has changed, and it is now EITHER USEF OR my "home" NF, not both.

                But a "National" Championship restricted to citizens? That does not bother me at all.
                Last edited by Janet; Apr. 24, 2013, 02:19 PM. Reason: Mark Philips
                Janet

                chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                Comment


                • #68
                  Velvet,

                  I think that's a fair assessment. I definitely accept the consequences of not being a citizen as long as I have to take an oath to bear arms. I suppose my only concern is that you ought not assume that people who do not become citizens have some issue with being American (don't like America). How's that?

                  Janet and Libera, I absolutely agree with you that there are alot of reasons why a person stays a Permanent Resident that have nothing to do with the oath. Like I said; I give people the benefit of the doubt.


                  Paula
                  He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Janet View Post
                    But a "National" Championship restricted to citizens? That does not bother me at all.
                    I misunderstood that. I thought you were bothered by that part.

                    The disappointment in not being on a long list for the team here is because the teams are national representatives and thus citizens, as with all other countries. You don't pay to develop people for other countries when we'll later be competing against them at, say, the Olympics. So that makes complete sense to me.
                    "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                      God forbid one do a half pass without absolving [sic] foreign sovereign under oath.
                      You have no idea what is to be nationalized, do you? We are not talking about a dressage show. We are talking about representative of US.

                      And just so you know, I Know EXACTLY what it takes to become an US citizen.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                        Velvet,

                        I think that's a fair assessment. I definitely accept the consequences of not being a citizen as long as I have to take an oath to bear arms. I suppose my only concern is that you ought not assume that people who do not become citizens have some issue with being American (don't like America). How's that?

                        Janet and Libera, I absolutely agree with you that there are alot of reasons why a person stays a Permanent Resident that have nothing to do with the oath. Like I said; I give people the benefit of the doubt.


                        Paula
                        I never said that they did not like America. My feeling is that they do not like it ENOUGH to become a citizen.
                        "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Gloria View Post
                          You have no idea what is to be nationalized, do you? We are not talking about a dressage show. We are talking about representative of US.

                          And just so you know, I Know EXACTLY what it takes to become an US citizen.
                          Yes, I the child of immigrant parents, with a brother married to a permanent resident wife, who has seen people I care about get deported, have absolutely no idea.

                          And of course we are talking about a dressage show. Re-read the thread title.
                          The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                          Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                          Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                          The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Libera View Post
                            I think that a lot of people do not realize how hard it is to become a citizen, and how much time and money it takes. Its not a matter of just taking an oath.

                            I have been in the US 8 years, and am jyst now about to get a 10yr greencard. USCIS is not that easy to deal with...
                            Yes. I know EXACTLY how hard it is to become a US citizen. I know how difficult to work with immigration office. It is more painful and frustrating than child birthing. But it is not impossible. And it does not take a lot of money either. You don't even need an immigration lawyer. You just need to be able to read and fill out a form.

                            Many people choose not to be nationalized. Ask those people, they will tell you why they don't want to, and it is not because of time or money. It is because they want to be their native country's citizens. People who want to be US citizens will become ones.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post

                              I do think it's a valid concern when posters point out that all along we are able to support dressage in the US with our money and our time and then you hit this bit (if you're that cool that you're even in the running).
                              Are you a member/supporter of USDF or USEF? Or is that part academic,too?

                              I do know two trainers -- long-time permanent residents -- who are affected by this rule. They're OK with it because it's their decision to retain citizenship in the countries of their birth.

                              It's like making the decision to ride in an english saddle and then complaining because you aren't allowed to ride in western trail classes. You follow the rules, or you don't participate.
                              __________________________
                              "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                              the best day in ten years,
                              you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Velvet View Post
                                You don't pay to develop people for other countries when we'll later be competing against them at, say, the Olympics. So that makes complete sense to me.
                                Of course it makes complete sense. But that doesn't stop it being disappointing.

                                Snce there was no way she would be selected for our "home" country's team, and even if she were added to that country's "training list", it is on the other side of the Atlantic.

                                On the other hand, some people who live here, from countries without a strong home-based team (Bahamas, Thailand, etc.) benefit from the situation, being on their "home" team when they would not make the US team.
                                Janet

                                chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                                  Yes, I the child of immigrant parents, with a brother married to a permanent resident wife, who has seen people I care about get deported, have absolutely no idea.

                                  And of course we are talking about a dressage show. Re-read the thread title.
                                  That is exactly I am saying: you have no idea. You only think you do. Your parents went through the process; you did not. They swore under oath to absolve foreign sovereign. You did not. You have no idea how difficult it can be for many.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Originally posted by Gloria View Post
                                    That is exactly I am saying: you have no idea. You only think you do. Your parents went through the process; you did not. They swore under oath to absolve foreign sovereign. You did not.
                                    No they did not, oh wise one.
                                    They swore to ABJURE. You cannot "absolve" a foreign sovereign.
                                    Please continue being the expert.
                                    The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                                    Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                                    Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                                    The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                                      Well there are alot of reasons people don't want to take the oath. Mine are because I'm a Quaker and we don't take oaths, and we're pacifists so I'm certainly not going to swear to bear arms for anyone's sake. But I am sure there are many reasons why people don't want to take the oath -reasons I may not even think of but will be happy to give people the benefit of the doubt. I certainly would not assume they don't like America.

                                      I do think it's a valid concern when posters point out that all along we are able to support dressage in the US with our money and our time and then you hit this bit (if you're that cool that you're even in the running).

                                      Paula
                                      Paula, not want to take the oath does not mean they don't like US. They do, or they won't be here. It just means they want to remain their allegiance with their native countries, and as such, cannot represent US. They can represent their own countries though.

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                                        No they did not, oh wise one.
                                        They swore to ABJURE. You cannot "absolve" an oath.
                                        Please continue being the expert.
                                        Well sorry for the gramma errors. I agree you are expert in English, or at least when comparing to me. I am awed. And yes, I am definitely more qualified than you are in this matter about nationalization and what it takes, since I went through the process.

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Velvet, I took this, "Don't like our country? Don't become a citizen." to mean that you were of the impression that people who don't become citizens don't like America. Then you say, "My feeling is that they do not like it ENOUGH to become a citizen." which makes me think that you are making that judgement. To which I say, the judgement is hasty and not correct.

                                          MP, I think I am? I find the whole bureaucracy confusing. I belong to the PVDA -my GMO -does that make me also a member of USDF? If so yes I am. If not, I guess I need to sort that out before I debut Fella .

                                          Paula
                                          He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X