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Draw-reins: Are they a "thing" or added for rhetorical flourish?

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  • #21
    Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
    A German martingale is only one rein to hold.
    Yes, the German martingale is a single rein. I "added" the German martingale rein to the snaffle bit large loose ring by placing it 'under' or 'below' the existing plain snaffle rein. That is why there are now 2 reins and why the German martingale can be used only when needed. The plain snaffle rein is the primary riding rein.
    I tried the German martingale alone when I was first introduced to it, 20 years or so ago, and I while I thought it was effective at stopping the horse I was riding from bolting the moment I got on...I wanted to be able to train him on a plain snaffle. Hence, I added the German martingale as a second rein. I train on the plain snaffle, and only use the German martingale when I need it.

    Since there are 2 reins I hold them as I would a double bridle with only 2 fingers of each hand on the German martingale rein.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by Ticker View Post
      Yes, the German martingale is a single rein. I "added" the German martingale rein to the snaffle bit large loose ring by placing it 'under' or 'below' the existing plain snaffle rein. That is why there are now 2 reins and why the German martingale can be used only when needed. The plain snaffle rein is the primary riding rein.
      I tried the German martingale alone when I was first introduced to it, 20 years or so ago, and I while I thought it was effective at stopping the horse I was riding from bolting the moment I got on...I wanted to be able to train him on a plain snaffle. Hence, I added the German martingale as a second rein. I train on the plain snaffle, and only use the German martingale when I need it.
      Still no.

      A German martingale is a rein that goes from a breast collar, through the bit, and then attaches to one of several rings on each snaffle rein ("each" as in "the left" and "the right").

      Thus the rider only holds the snaffle rein.

      It is completely non-adjustable in the moment, although I suppose you could halt and adjust which ring on the rein it is attached to.

      See also:
      #1

      #2

      #3

      Unless you are saying you have two snaffle reins on the same bridle, one of which has a german martingale on it, which makes no sense to me. If you want an adjustable draw rein, use a draw rein.
      Last edited by meupatdoes; Apr. 12, 2013, 08:54 AM.
      The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
      Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
      Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
      The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

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      • #23
        Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
        Still no.

        A German martingale is a rein that goes from a breast collar, through the bit, and then attaches to one of several rings on each snaffle rein ("each" as in "the left" and "the right").

        Thus the rider only holds the snaffle rein.

        It is completely non-adjustable in the moment, although I suppose you could halt and adjust which ring on the rein it is attached to.

        See also:
        #1

        #2

        #3

        Unless you are saying you have two snaffle reins on the same bridle, one of which has a german martingale on it, which makes no sense to me. If you want an adjustable draw rein, use a draw rein.
        It does take some adjustments, skill and knowledge to use the German martingale the way I do. It is not for everyone and I am not the best at my descriptions of usage.
        I also don't use the breast collar that comes with the newer versions.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by Ticker View Post
          It does take some adjustments, skill and knowledge to use the German martingale the way I do. It is not for everyone and I am not the best at my descriptions of usage.
          I also don't use the breast collar that comes with the newer versions.
          So, in what respects does your use of the "German martingale" in any way, shape or form match the pictures of what a German martingale actually is?

          I feel like we are having a conversation where you are like, "I have a pet with webbed feet, two wings, and feathers. It takes some skill to realize that he is a zebra."
          The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
          Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
          Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
          The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
            If a trainer's horses are "pulling on her all day long", they're not a very good trainer. ( And yes, I ride looooots of squirrels, without DR.)

            Wish you would share that draw rein story in the depth of trainers thread.
            Yep!


            I am ok with rhrt's draw reins as a lesson for *her* on what putting a horse "in a frame" doesn't do for you. It was not a frequent thing and got the point across. It's just that I don't think I've ever seen or been convinced there was such thing as "correct use of draw reins" in training a horse.
            Originally posted by Silverbridge
            If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

            Comment


            • #26
              I think what qualifies is that you dont NEED them to ride well enough, and you can get the same effect outside of them.

              If that is the case then using them wont effect things like the topline IMO.

              But when you have to use them to say get the horse onto the bit? Well that is going to cost a lot of topline.
              ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
              http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                I feel like we are having a conversation where you are like, "I have a pet with webbed feet, two wings, and feathers. It takes some skill to realize that he is a zebra."
                I'm glad I'm not the only one!

                Comment


                • #28
                  I feel like we are having a conversation where you are like, "I have a pet with webbed feet, two wings, and feathers. It takes some skill to realize that he is a zebra."
                  Coffee. Out. Nose.

                  Thanks for that.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                    So, in what respects does your use of the "German martingale" in any way, shape or form match the pictures of what a German martingale actually is?

                    I feel like we are having a conversation where you are like, "I have a pet with webbed feet, two wings, and feathers. It takes some skill to realize that he is a zebra."
                    Originally posted by RedHorses View Post
                    I'm glad I'm not the only one!
                    Oh no, you are definitely not the only one. I think someone, and it's not meupatdoes, thinks s/he knows what a German martingale is, but in reality, doesn't.
                    Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      I'm confused too. Certainly German martingales have always been part of a breastplate / martingale set up? Thus the term martingale?? If there's nothing for it to attach to for leverage, then how does this modified GM work? In that case, why not just use draw reins or yoke reins, which would provide the same effect? Regardless, how is that a piece of safety equipment? If it's really just two reins attached to each side of a loose ring snaffle . . . ? Ugh. My brain exploded.
                      Piaffe Girl -- Dressage. Fashionably.
                      http://piaffegirl.wordpress.com/
                      https://www.facebook.com/PiaffeGirl

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #31
                        Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                        So, in what respects does your use of the "German martingale" in any way, shape or form match the pictures of what a German martingale actually is?

                        I feel like we are having a conversation where you are like, "I have a pet with webbed feet, two wings, and feathers. It takes some skill to realize that he is a zebra."
                        I think she means this:

                        1) regular ol' rein between bit and rider's hand.

                        2) rein from the german martingale.

                        I assume she means that rein is longer/looser than the regular rein. It's there only for bacon-saving. Personally, I'd use a draw rein in place of the german martingale if I thought I were going to die and that piece of equipment might help. But the german martingale is like a "draw rein lite" in this situation-- in that you don't get to the "pull the horse's head to his chest" until you have taken back a lot.
                        The armchair saddler
                        Politically Pro-Cat

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #32
                          Another question for you all:

                          Don't you find that you need a sh!t-ton of leg riding with draw reins meant to produce a frame (not just catch a horse before he flings his head hard enough to give you a nose bleed)?

                          The problem with draw reins that are always in play is that the horse never.gets.a."let go" from your hand. The ones I have ridden that spent time in draw reins were very dull in the bridle. Horses damages this way are sad and frustrating for me to ride.

                          So if I were going to use draw reins to get a horse to learn to be round and also give to the bit, I think I'd need lots and lots of leg.

                          My basic caveat is: You can't have more "hardware" up front than you have impulsion from behind. If I don't want to be grinding or chasing a horse, I had better make him light in front.
                          The armchair saddler
                          Politically Pro-Cat

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by mvp View Post
                            I think she means this:

                            1) regular ol' rein between bit and rider's hand.

                            2) rein from the german martingale.

                            I assume she means that rein is longer/looser than the regular rein. It's there only for bacon-saving. Personally, I'd use a draw rein in place of the german martingale if I thought I were going to die and that piece of equipment might help. But the german martingale is like a "draw rein lite" in this situation-- in that you don't get to the "pull the horse's head to his chest" until you have taken back a lot.
                            That's what I thought too, until she said she doesn't use the GM with its breastcollar. That's when I got confused. I hope she uploads a pic, because I'm curious as to what this is. I'm more visual, I suppose. I need to see to understand This is what happens when I and can't ride for two days. . . I obsess about horses on COTH all afternoon.
                            Piaffe Girl -- Dressage. Fashionably.
                            http://piaffegirl.wordpress.com/
                            https://www.facebook.com/PiaffeGirl

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #34
                              Originally posted by DancingFoalFarms View Post
                              That's what I thought too, until she said she doesn't use the GM with its breastcollar.
                              So.... it comes from the girth between the front legs? From the sides?

                              Hmm. To me, a german martingale gets a functional definition: It means regular reins to be "backed up" by a draw rein-like action. How quickly you go from regular contract to draw rein action depends on how short you make the martingale.

                              FWIW, I'm riding a bunch of backyard horses now in various states of greenness and I'm reminded that I *always* start by teaching a horse to soften when I pull on the bit. For me, it's a safety thing as much as the very, very beginning of training. I want to make sure that the horse knows something about how he can make me let go if I'm in trouble and he won't stop.

                              As a teen, I was taught to put a loose running martingale on a horse as a bacon-saving device. That would give me a shot at controlling the head and neck if things went very sideways. German martingales and draw reins weren't part of the tool chest.
                              The armchair saddler
                              Politically Pro-Cat

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                                So, in what respects does your use of the "German martingale" in any way, shape or form match the pictures of what a German martingale actually is?

                                I feel like we are having a conversation where you are like, "I have a pet with webbed feet, two wings, and feathers. It takes some skill to realize that he is a zebra."
                                I get what she means. You hold loosely the reins with the german martingale, such that it's not activated at all. You're only holding them so that they don't fall on the ground. You rely mainly on a second pair of snaffle reins, which are not attached in any way to the german martingale. If horse is a doofus and "needs" the german martingale, you can switch to actively using those reins.

                                May not be SOP but could be useful for "weaning" a horse (or rider) off the martingale.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by NOMIOMI1 View Post
                                  I think what qualifies is that you dont NEED them to ride well enough, and you can get the same effect outside of them.

                                  If that is the case then using them wont effect things like the topline IMO.

                                  But when you have to use them to say get the horse onto the bit? Well that is going to cost a lot of topline.
                                  Umm.... what do draw reins do that you could possibly want to use them if you don't need them, and that you don't affect the topline? Because I'm still coming up blank here. Maybe I'm clueless, or maybe it's just that I get my horse's head where I want with his back legs instead of gimmicks.

                                  Originally posted by mvp View Post
                                  I think she means this:

                                  1) regular ol' rein between bit and rider's hand.

                                  2) rein from the german martingale.

                                  I assume she means that rein is longer/looser than the regular rein. It's there only for bacon-saving. Personally, I'd use a draw rein in place of the german martingale if I thought I were going to die and that piece of equipment might help. But the german martingale is like a "draw rein lite" in this situation-- in that you don't get to the "pull the horse's head to his chest" until you have taken back a lot.
                                  Originally posted by mvp View Post
                                  So.... it comes from the girth between the front legs? From the sides?

                                  Hmm. To me, a german martingale gets a functional definition: It means regular reins to be "backed up" by a draw rein-like action. How quickly you go from regular contract to draw rein action depends on how short you make the martingale.
                                  I assumed what 1) and 2) above mean, plus that it comes from the girth ring instead of a breast collar. I've seen that with western horses. Example:
                                  http://www.nrsworld.com/prodimages/6147-DEFAULT-l.jpg
                                  Originally posted by Silverbridge
                                  If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Ah ha! I see I've never seen that set up before, only this type so when she said no breastcollar, I was flummoxed.
                                    Piaffe Girl -- Dressage. Fashionably.
                                    http://piaffegirl.wordpress.com/
                                    https://www.facebook.com/PiaffeGirl

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by DancingFoalFarms View Post
                                      Ah ha! I see I've never seen that set up before, only this type so when she said no breastcollar, I was flummoxed.
                                      That's the only type I've ever seen on an English horse (and the only type I saw on horses with English tack when I did a google search), but I have seen the other type plenty on western horses.



                                      As far as safety items- my mom's horse occasionally flips her head in novice riders' faces if they are trying to stop her and not using legs/seat properly, so for someone who doesn't ride well on a horse who is mostly amazing for beginners and just wants to avoid the bit if she's ridden poorly (or if she's asked to stop trotting while on the trail), I use a running martingale in case it's needed to stop a head flip from getting reins over her head. The only time I rode her in that was before sending my mom out on a trail ride with a group to ensure she understood it could come into play and that she would not overreact to it - and it was very, very difficult for me to induce anything for it to work.
                                      Originally posted by Silverbridge
                                      If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by mvp View Post
                                        Another question for you all:

                                        Don't you find that you need a sh!t-ton of leg riding with draw reins meant to produce a frame (not just catch a horse before he flings his head hard enough to give you a nose bleed)?

                                        The problem with draw reins that are always in play is that the horse never.gets.a."let go" from your hand. The ones I have ridden that spent time in draw reins were very dull in the bridle. Horses damages this way are sad and frustrating for me to ride.

                                        So if I were going to use draw reins to get a horse to learn to be round and also give to the bit, I think I'd need lots and lots of leg.

                                        My basic caveat is: You can't have more "hardware" up front than you have impulsion from behind. If I don't want to be grinding or chasing a horse, I had better make him light in front.
                                        Bingo. It turned into a bit of a reclamation project with my horses after that trainer rode them for a few years. They were so used to "leaning" on the draw reins for support, they didn't know how to halt or slow down from the seat, and they didn't know how to carry their own heads. As another USDF Gold Medalist commented after riding them - "they both have contact issues".

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by mvp View Post
                                          I think she means this:

                                          1) regular ol' rein between bit and rider's hand.

                                          2) rein from the german martingale.

                                          I assume she means that rein is longer/looser than the regular rein. It's there only for bacon-saving. Personally, I'd use a draw rein in place of the german martingale if I thought I were going to die and that piece of equipment might help. But the german martingale is like a "draw rein lite" in this situation-- in that you don't get to the "pull the horse's head to his chest" until you have taken back a lot.
                                          Hello, sorry if I confused people.
                                          I removed the neck part of the German martingale to give me more slack, but I do prefer this to regular draw reins.

                                          I quoted this response because it seemed the closest to what I attempted to communicate.
                                          I use both sets of reins as if were riding in a double bridle with the bottom rein being the Germain martingale and set to the appropriate slack level for the size of my horse.

                                          As a single piece of equipment I think draw reins in general can be too harsh if not used with the utmost care. That said, having the 'option' to use leverage when needed is the positive part of using the German martingale that I liked. So it was a natural step for me to modify how I use it by combining it with equipment...the plain snaffle rein.....that I do want to train with.

                                          How I use the German martingale as a second rein is not how people normally think of using this piece of equipment as certainly evidenced by some of the responses. However, sharing ideas was my intention.

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