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US Dressage Coach - Dover or van der Schaft ?

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  • #41
    Originally posted by alicen View Post
    The thing is, the "team" is the horse and rider.
    YeAH I thought of that. There is very little "team" though when it comes to the riders. They come together maybe for a month at a time before a big event.

    Comment


    • #42
      Some of the best candidate selection committees I've sat on (academia) have tasked the committee with putting together a list of attributes the "perfect" candidate would possess prior to advertising for the position. Do you think USDF asked the committee to make a list of attributes prior to announcing the position or did they hand a list to the committee? Or, maybe there is no actual list of attributes, but just a list of names

      Not trying to side track the thread, but make a list of all the attributes you would like to see in a coach and then measure that list against the two named candidates. It might change a few opinions....or, perhaps some would not feel as strongly for or against a particular individual.

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      • #43
        Would not the attributes be those which best fulfill the job description?
        http://www.usef.org/documents/highPe...escription.pdf

        Comment


        • #44
          It can be, but usually there are additional things in the attribute list that might not look so good in a generic job announcement. For example, Klaus brought (in addition to all his skills) strong connections in Europe which translated into access to high quality small tour horses, other trainers, breeders, etc.

          Probably the biggest attribute would be political connections (read = $$$ deep pocket access). And, that wouldn't be in the job description (well maybe it is, I have not read the description )

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by Velvet View Post
            This is exactly the problem with him. He's polarizing--and not in a good way. It will just create drama if he's in charge.
            So - if people have differing opinions about a person, it makes him/her polarizing??!!!?

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by Shagyas Rock View Post
              So - if people have differing opinions about a person, it makes him/her polarizing??!!!?
              Let me ask you. You realize that polarizing means to attract people to two extreme positions/opinions and you find this to be a good thing for a team leader when you already have strong individual personalities among the members? (Who also are not usually participating in a team sport.)

              How is this a good thing in your opinion?
              "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by Derid View Post
                It can be, but usually there are additional things in the attribute list that might not look so good in a generic job announcement. For example, Klaus brought (in addition to all his skills) strong connections in Europe which translated into access to high quality small tour horses, other trainers, breeders, etc.

                Probably the biggest attribute would be political connections (read = $$$ deep pocket access). And, that wouldn't be in the job description (well maybe it is, I have not read the description )
                I venture to say that Klaus is also somewhat polarizing on both continents. Americans (esp. deep pocket Americans) already had/have good connections with breeders in Germany, Holland, etc., and access to prospects often offered for a whole lot less $$ than a prospect "identified" by a BNT middle-person.
                Proud member of the Colbert Dressage Nation

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                • #48
                  I don’t know anything about Van der Schaft beyond what I’ve read here, so I have nothing to add. However, I have seen RD teach a couple of times and have several friends who have trained with him. They swear by him and are all at the top of the sport. The lessons I watched were impressive. Yes, he was teaching talented riders on lovely horses, but he was getting great results by being able to zero in on what each needed the most in the moment and was succinct in delivering instruction. I found him to be very matter of fact (not the warm, fuzzy type), but he did praise the riders for a job well done. These GP riders didn’t reach the top by being coddled—they have sought out trainers who would hold them to a high standard and then held themselves to that same (or even higher) standard. They will likely step up to the plate even if RD isn't their first choice and put in their best effort.

                  Regarding RD’s competition career, I have read interviews of him in which he admits outright that he suffers terribly from show nerves. However, this does not correlate with his skill as a rider, teacher, and trainer, and I don’t think his competition results should have a bearing on his selection. What I think is more important is that he does have experience competing internationally and will be able to effectively guide the team through the logistics and nuances of competing abroad while also offering first-rate instruction.

                  I have no firsthand knowledge of whether he is a polarizing figure or not. However, if I was a rider on the team, I would want a trainer who would push me to be my best, and I’m thinking RD could do that. It’s entirely possible that Van der Schaft could, too. We’ll just have to wait and see and hope for the best whoever is selected.

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                  • Original Poster

                    #49
                    Candidates give presentations

                    Interesting coverage on Dressage News....
                    http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=20789

                    "Rien van der Schaft, not widely known in the United States but highly respected as a trainer, was reported to have made a big impact on the committee because he focused on the team."

                    whereas....

                    "[Dover] was a front-runner from the start of the process that now goes to the dressage High Performance Committee."

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Mardi View Post
                      Interesting coverage on Dressage News....
                      http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=20789

                      "Rien van der Schaft, not widely known in the United States but highly respected as a trainer, was reported to have made a big impact on the committee because he focused on the team."

                      whereas....

                      "[Dover] was a front-runner from the start of the process that now goes to the dressage High Performance Committee."
                      Just shows how mucked up our coaching is in the US. We have requirements for the position that are stupid. Instead of saying they have to be working in our country right now, why can't the act professional and do the paperwork for the right person after they hire them? Just make them sign a contract with a time stipulation and bonuses for meeting certain goals and penalties if they want out of the contract.


                      By the way, the dumbest thing the old USET ever did was to get sell off the property at Gladstone that made it a viable training center, here in the US where we could have current team members and up and coming riders come for training with a coach on a long term basis. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.
                      "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        In order to have USET function as it did (supply horses to riders/a coach/training/etc), there had to be huge $ support. When that was lost, it no longer could survive. (some) Other countries support high performance athletes.

                        Also, what is being solicited is a Chef d’Equipe, not a coach.
                        I.D.E.A. yoda

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by ideayoda View Post
                          In order to have USET function as it did (supply horses to riders/a coach/training/etc), there had to be huge $ support. When that was lost, it no longer could survive. (some) Other countries support high performance athletes.
                          And most of that money was spent on attorneys by two angry men in a pissing contest (USET vs AHSA). Let us never forget that, lest we be doomed and repeat this by putting people in charge of our organizations that forget the members have other places they can and will spend their money when egotistical bastards are put in charge of the organizations!!!
                          "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Velvet View Post
                            Just shows how mucked up our coaching is in the US. We have requirements for the position that are stupid. Instead of saying they have to be working in our country right now, why can't the act professional and do the paperwork for the right person after they hire them? Just make them sign a contract with a time stipulation and bonuses for meeting certain goals and penalties if they want out of the contract.
                            I am sure that's how it is, that if van der Schaft comes here to live, that meets the requirement.

                            I would say it's a wise requirement, given that coaches resident in europe have created some real problems and are really not appropriate given the significant pay of the position. This person needs to be involved in the pipeline and building up and coming riders, which cannot be done from Europe.

                            However,

                            But the impact of his presentation was muted because it was by transatlantic computer link rather than face-to-face as he did not have a valid visa for the United States.
                            Talk about a big :rolleyes for the US Government. There is no reason he should have had trouble getting a visa to come and visit as an international sporting coach. This post 9/11 paranoia about visas has cost the US a lot of conferences and other gatherings, and is stupid.
                            If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by Velvet View Post
                              And most of that money was spent on attorneys by two angry men in a pissing contest (USET vs AHSA). Let us never forget that, lest we be doomed and repeat this by putting people in charge of our organizations that forget the members have other places they can and will spend their money when egotistical bastards are put in charge of the organizations!!!
                              Well, I would say, personally, that it was one guy making unreasonable demands ... That's really all it takes for litigation.
                              If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...visor-position

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  I wish Dover well and I hope this is a good relaunch for the dressage program. I would like to see more of a collective team and cooperative effort, and among other things, I hope he's successful at reversing the situation of the dressage World Cup where no American riders were able to afford to go this year.
                                  If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by ideayoda View Post

                                    Also, what is being solicited is a Chef d’Equipe, not a coach.
                                    Smacking hand on forehead...must remember to read for comprehension. Yes, Chef d'Equipe...not coach. He might be ideal in this role as I can picture him making a long term commitment; assuming that's what is wanted.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #58
                                      Originally posted by poltroon View Post


                                      Talk about a big :rolleyes for the US Government. There is no reason he should have had trouble getting a visa to come and visit as an international sporting coach. This post 9/11 paranoia about visas has cost the US a lot of conferences and other gatherings, and is stupid.
                                      The lack of a visa to come to the US is odd, but not completely out of line. His country is on the visa-waiver program, so he didn't need one to come here and VISIT. But if he was coming over for a job interview, that may require something else.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Looks like its Dover http://www.dressagedaily.com/article...visor-position. I was Team van der Schaft, but I am sure Dover will do a good job

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by Mardi View Post
                                          The lack of a visa to come to the US is odd, but not completely out of line. His country is on the visa-waiver program, so he didn't need one to come here and VISIT. But if he was coming over for a job interview, that may require something else.

                                          Not odd at all. Your employer has to apply for the visa.
                                          ... _. ._ .._. .._

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