• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Is this really dressage?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    Jerking on the reins should never happen, but sometimes a horse might need a good kick to get it listening. If you sit there and gently niggle away with your legs trying to get the horse going, it's going to tune you out, and become less and less responsive to the leg. If you are clear with your leg aids, you won't have that problem. OP, you mentioned that the trainer said the rider was timid and the horse not listening - so I'd say the rider probably DID need to be a bit more proactive about asking the horse to listen, and respond. I obviously wasn't there, so can't truly comment on the situation, but I would much rather see a rider give one meaningful kick then leave the horse alone, than constant nudge-nudge-nudge-nudge.

    Comment


    • #22
      Training opinions are as varied as they come OP, like other people said, you'll have to shop around for trainers. And just because someone teaches something you don't agree with completely one day doesn't mean you can't take away something from them or that particular lesson. Even if it's a method I don't prefer, I'll still make note of it, you never know when it might be useful!

      There are a few situations where I will give the horse a fairly good pop in the mouth. One is purposefully bolting and blowing through the aids (i.e. no "whoa"). Another is purposeful broncing with the head between the knees. Green/young horse antics are a different situation, but a spoiled horse who knows better and is trying to get you off, I do not tolerate.

      I'm not a serious dressage rider, but I dabble in it occasionally. Good riding is good riding, regardless of discipline. And manners are manners!

      So in other words, everybody has a different opinion. Lol, good luck on the trainer search OP!

      Comment


      • #23
        Without video, we're relying on your mastery of English and comprehension of what you witnessed.

        I think it was a chocolate fudge pie.

        Comment


        • #24
          If you are all interested in the "french style" (a la Philippe Karl), I know an awesome trainer/instructor in the Redmond area. PM for name and contact info.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by r.j.246 View Post
            I've had quite a few lessons and rides where it's been a completely nasty, ugly mess of a ride where I had the lay down the law pretty harshly. I've been approached by other people before about it, but they weren't aware I was riding spoiled horses. (Nor had they ever ridden one before.)

            When training any horse, there are times where you have to really get after them. An effective ride isn't always aesthetically pleasing.
            I believe in an effective rider any day over a pretty rider. So many can sit pretty but are not effective at all.
            "Ask often, demand little, reward generously"
            " Every horse has a chocolate side"

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by r.j.246 View Post
              I've had quite a few lessons and rides where it's been a completely nasty, ugly mess of a ride where I had the lay down the law pretty harshly. I've been approached by other people before about it, but they weren't aware I was riding spoiled horses. (Nor had they ever ridden one before.)

              When training any horse, there are times where you have to really get after them. An effective ride isn't always aesthetically pleasing.
              This. I had one last week. We were going up, down, sideways, backward to get out of half passing from M to E. K to B was a-ok, but he said I'll be damned if I'm doing it from the other end! He was just having a downright nasty tantrum and I really had to get after him. I'm never, ever mean or rough but sometimes you have to get firm to work through things like that. I would hate to have had someone pass judgement on myself or my absolutely fantastic instructor over my horse's stubborn redheaded temper! When he gets that pissed (which is fortunately very rare) he also tends to toss his head up and down in a way that may very well look to a bystander like I am jerking the crap out of his mouth. In reality my seat and hands are absolutely still and steady and he's mad that I'm not giving him an opening to escape through.

              The instructor you observed may totally suck, or they may be fantastic and you just saw a horse who was having a particularly naughty moment. Were I in your shoes I would probably watch a couple more lessons to get a more well-rounded view of how they teach and how their students are performing before making a decision.

              Comment


              • #27
                I have spent too much time getting horses to re-trust the hand to ever correct by a jerk in the mouth.

                So much of how you ride and train depends on the horse. Some need an occasional boot as a wake-up call to pay attention while others will carry a resentment of any kind of correction not timed just right. With others you are just better off ignoring a sulk and riding through. Watch and educate your eye.

                Shop around. Take a lesson with several trainers. You will find one that fits you. JMHO
                Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"

                Comment


                • #28
                  As my trainer says. You'll never win with the hand. They are stronger and can win that fight. My guy gets tossing his heading or throwing his head up it leg leg and more leg. Forward with steady hands. A nice string half halt in the mix as well but never popping or jerking him in the mouth. I've seen to many horses ruined this way. Actually one turned into a bolter because of jerking and popping him in the mouth so much. As soon as the girl would start he would bolt and all bets were off. I could get on the same horse of hers and ride him around nicely with a steady hand and he would go very happily but as soon as she got on and he did one little thing she would jerk the crap out of him. He was a hunter and started out a nice guy, green but easy. Started running out of jumps on her and just bolting around the ring. I'd get on and he'd jump like nothing was wrong. IMO he got tired of her and decided he wasn't going to work for her bolting was easier.
                  Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    If you jerk with the hand most horses will make you fix that for a few sessions in terms of being soft.

                    Its a much harder battle to correct something you broke than it is to train new IMO. Following a hand that can be angry is not a prey animals way. Its like following a tiger to them.

                    We all do make mistakes, or give into temptation to say < "HEY REMEMBER ME!? IM THE ONE RIDING YOU!??!!!!" But its no good for later work most times.

                    Either way it should be rare... Like unicorn rare.
                    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
                    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Consistent jerking of the face means there are much bigger issues that need to be addressed. Could be a confidence issue with the rider. If you can't trust the horse to carry you safely, you should at least trust yourself to be able to ride out whatever it throws at you. Otherwise, it'll just get into a vicious cycle of ugly and mistrust.

                      Strong rein aids should only be something you use as a last resort, and only then occasionally as the situation calls for. Many horses I get on have had issues due to constant too strong of contact, generally in conjunction with some crazy bits. Usually with them, a quick correction of the hand (usually mid bronc, lol) then softening is enough to get the point across without having to go into tug of war, which you will lose every time. And by popping a horse, I mean taking one strong quick hold of the rein for a split second, not doing major league baseball swings with the reins.
                      Horses are pretty smart, they know when something is fair or unfair. It's us that need to learn that.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by zacdos View Post
                        Can someone suggest a barn in Washington in the Redmond area to Snohomish or Monroe. Any suggestions positive or negative would be appreciated.
                        I missed this part of your OP and didn't catch that we are in the same area... There are definitely a couple of trainers in this area who I wouldn't be surprised to see riding rough, I'll just leave it at that. But we do have some wonderful people as well. Someone else mentioned Jessica Wisdom, who is very good but she is way south in the Vancouver/Portland area now. I would highly recommend Roxanne Christenson in Monroe if you have your own horse (she doesn't have school horses). IMHO she is by far the best in our area.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by RedmondDressage View Post
                          ... Someone else mentioned Jessica Wisdom, ...
                          She was very nice when I spoke to her a couple of months ago when researching DCM (Darling Chestnut Mare)'s background. Jessica was one of the homes during the itinerant days before DCM came to Florida to a permanent home.
                          *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Adding my two cents to exvet (Post #13)

                            1. I don't have the best body control, so I appreciate an instructor who can provide actual riding instruction (yes, even "heels down" because that is a surprising factor in a tense back!) when it's necessary to augment "stretch the topline a bit more")

                            2. An instructor who communicates plans and includes me in strategy. One who takes the time to watch videos I post of rides she's not supervising (for example) or shares videos of training rides on my horse that I don't see.
                            Last edited by AllWeatherGal; Apr. 10, 2013, 02:07 PM. Reason: fixed a stupid typo
                            *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X