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Is This the Western Cowboy Dressage We've Been Wanting to See?

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  • #41
    Originally posted by kittykeno View Post
    I have never seen Dianne ride in a dressage competition....in exhibitions, sure tons of them. I lived across the street from the stable where this then 4 year old stallion lived and was trained by Dianne until they moved to LAEC where I continued to watch this pair develop for many years. She trained a lot of horses, Andalusians, Fresians and this wonderful arabian in long-lines for exhibition.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NrUq...layer_embedded

    She has helped a number of trainers paricularily with their piaffe and passage and yes, that does include Hilda.
    I saw her long-line a pony. When it reared (Briefly - did not hold position), she called it a "levade." When it bucked, she called it a "capriole." I continue to disbelieve her so-called "credentials." If she's that fricking' good - to coach Hilda and other GP riders - WTF was she doing riding with a double/martingale/drawreins simultaneously?!? Is that what she recommended to Hilda to "improve" her horses' passage and piaffe?

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by Sandy M View Post
      As for Ms. Rossi - such a subtle hint...come on, she "helped" Hilda Gurney? I call B.S. Hilda was probably doing an exhibition of dressage at some event at which Ms. Rossi also appeared, and probably briefly spoke to her. Ta-dah! "I coached Hilda Gurney!"
      IIRC, there was a trainer in CA in the 1980s/1990s who specialized in teaching the piaffe and passage. More than one DQ exported the horse to this person in order to have those installed.

      Could that be this Diana Olds (Rossi)?
      The armchair saddler
      Politically Pro-Cat

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by mvp View Post
        IIRC, there was a trainer in CA in the 1980s/1990s who specialized in teaching the piaffe and passage. More than one DQ exported the horse to this person in order to have those installed.
        They sent their horses out of the country?

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by stripes View Post
          The only thing missing from this video...
          http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=1&theater
          h
          For some deep, dark and almost perverse reason I actually sort of like that bridle. Not to actually put it on a horse, mind you, but maybe tucked away in a dark closet to be taken out and fondled secretly. Or maybe a piece of tackroom art.

          Comment


          • #45
            Yes mvp, that was Dianne who helped Hilda and other grand prix riders work on piaffe and passage. She did not coach Hilda in dressage. To my knowledge Dianne did not coach any one in dressage. She trained horses for exhibition.

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by kittykeno View Post
              Yes mvp, that was Dianne who helped Hilda and other grand prix riders work on piaffe and passage. She did not coach Hilda in dressage. To my knowledge Dianne did not coach any one in dressage. She trained horses for exhibition.
              So, then piaffe and passage are NOT dressage? Well, done with double/martingale/drawreins, I'll have to agree.

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by mvp View Post
                IIRC, there was a trainer in CA in the 1980s/1990s who specialized in teaching the piaffe and passage. More than one DQ exported the horse to this person in order to have those installed.

                Could that be this Diana Olds (Rossi)?
                I believe that could have been Albert Ostermaier, who was Diane's mentor for many years. Lilian Van Dahn, Hilda Gurney and Jaye Cherry all contacted Albert Ostermaier for help with piaffe and passage at one time or another - although to my knowledge no horses were ever actually taken into training. It stands to reason that Diane could have been contacted for the same reason too - although again, I don't know if in fact any of those people ever did contact her or put a horse in training with her.

                For some deep, dark and almost perverse reason I actually sort of like that bridle. Not to actually put it on a horse, mind you, but maybe tucked away in a dark closet to be taken out and fondled secretly. Or maybe a piece of tackroom art.
                LOL!!

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by kittykeno View Post
                  I lived across the street from the stable where this then 4 year old stallion lived and was trained by Dianne until they moved to LAEC where I continued to watch this pair develop for many years. She trained a lot of horses, Andalusians, Fresians and this wonderful arabian in long-lines for exhibition.

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NrUq...layer_embedded
                  kittykeno - are you referring to the old Silver Spur stables?

                  And is that Arab stallion Barbara Parkening's old horse? We used to call him "Spot" for the white spot he had on his belly. In the comments from the YouTube video you posted, it looks like he's in his 30's now. Nice to see he's still doing well.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Teddyi, yes that was Silver Spur Stables. And yes you are correct, it was Albert Ostermaier who was Dianne's mentor. No one took their horses to Albert or Dianne for dressage training....Dianne and Albert would come over to LAEC or Hilda's and work with them on piaffe and passage occassionally.

                    The Arabian stallion does belong to Barbara. He is still going into his 30s though he is no longer a stallion. Flash is still a spit fire despite his age.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      What a mess! It's not "dressage" (no lenghtenings, no walk work, no work in all 3 gaits, etc). It has no form, just edited bits of a step here and there.

                      Western hat, dressage saddle, Dutch carriage horse breed, mish-mash of a mess on the poor horse's face...this actually gives REAL dressage a bad name.

                      'Cause I'm thinking actual western riders are going to see this and think"...so that's what thissy-here DRESS-ahage is all about? Hell, I ain't gonna do that to my horse."

                      And they would be right.

                      As far as this woman helping Hilda G. -- I don't see that as being beyond the realm of reality. I watched a video of Freddy Knie Sr.(a circus rider/trainer) helping one of the Swiss Olympic riders with passage/piaffe. This was not an unusual event.

                      P/P are both very popular in exhibitions, which is one reason prancey-type of horses are so popular in these shows. That, and the ability to grow a long mane. I'm thinking these types of trainers are probably very talented at teaching these movements. It is only by an arbitrary decisionmade by committee that stuff like the Spanish Walk is NOT included in the modern test and P/P is. I would think a smart competitor would go to whoever could help them put a better P/P on their horse.

                      And I would guess that the exhibition rider would love to do this, because it give them some credibility & respect, which I'm thinking they don't get much of from "real" dressage riders.

                      Obviously they get applause from their audience, but those people are not
                      sophisticated enough to recognize the lack of stuff like straightness, forward, etc. It kind of scares me to think that these are the people who are attaching themselves to WD. So far, it has been nothing but exhibition riders...well, except for Jack Brainard (sp?)...but he's pretty old.

                      But I have an idea to stem this whole "western dressage" trend. All real dressage riders unite! Show up at your local WD show with your accomplished 2nd level horse. Slap a western saddle on his back, a hat on your head, and go have fun!!

                      I'm thinking you could come home with some fancy ribbons!
                      Last edited by Kyzteke; Mar. 30, 2013, 08:49 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Kyzteke View Post
                        But I have an idea to stem this whole "western dressage" trend. All real dressage riders unite! Show up at your local WD show with your accomplished 2nd level horse. Slap a western saddle on his back, a hat on your head, and go have fun!!

                        I'm thinking you could come home with some fancy ribbons!
                        Hum.... No.

                        Who would want their 2d level dressage horse to jog or lope?
                        ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                        Originally posted by LauraKY
                        I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                        HORSING mobile training app

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by alibi_18 View Post
                          Hum.... No.

                          Who would want their 2d level dressage horse to jog or lope?
                          Why not? It's not like it would disfigure them in some way...

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Kyzteke View Post
                            Why not? It's not like it would disfigure them in some way...
                            Well, sorry to say but yes.

                            Dressage working trot and western jogging is nothing alike.
                            Same goes for any collected movement.
                            It would only confuse the horse and be counter productive if one wish to be competitive and go up the level. That is of course only my opinion. People can do what they want but I doubt anyone at 2d level would want to mix their horse up at that point in their training because most worked really hard to get there!

                            Don't get me wrong, I know how to appreciate a well trained western horse's jog and lope. I rode western (rider level 3 in the FEQ rider program - which is not that advanced but still...) and I have friends riding western profesionnaly (barrel/reining/pleasure).
                            ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                            Originally posted by LauraKY
                            I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                            HORSING mobile training app

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              What does she matter what she wears and whether she would be eliminated in a dressage

                              Everyone seems to be missing the major point that this horse is doing dressage beautifully -- 100% of the time, he is reliably straight, forward, rhythmic, balanced, carrying, engaged in the hocks, light in the forehand, overall completely RELAXED, submissive (in fact he is working very hard to anticipate her cues correctly, you can see it in his facial expression and in his eyes). His jaw is soft, his mouth is burgeoning with foam. Clearly, he is actually enjoying what he is doing -- or at least not resenting/secretly resisting it, as is seen in the face of all "Grand Prix" dressage horses of today. And she, the rider, is correspondingly as correct as her horse, whatever the make of her coat: deep yet light in her seat, absolutely gossamer in her hands. . . you don't see riding like this in the current dressage ring, it has become a grotesque parody, instead, with all the riders behind the motion, hanging onto the bit for dear lives against a horse that is pulling in hardened "rolkeur". What does it matter where the curbchain was hooked or whether a flash noseband was utilized in conjunction with a "bling" breastplate, when you get this caliber of performance? I once knew a (brave) lady who drove a four-in-hand of Arabians and won everywhere reliably and never hooked the reins of the off-fore horse onto his bit at all, but rather, onto his noseband. . it worked, that's what that horse wanted, she was creative enough (as this woman obviously is -- perhaps you all are just jealous?) to go with it when it got the desired results, and was never inhumane in her "outside the box" tactics (in fact, exactly the opposite). Take a lesson from this woman, folks. Look hard at what her horse thinks of how she is riding. This is remarkably well done dressage, I don't care what you call it, and it is a shame and an indictment upon our current system of dressage that she wouldn't be allowed into their ring!
                              "To ride a horse is to borrow freedom."

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by CandyHaasch View Post
                                This is remarkably well done dressage, I don't care what you call it, and it is a shame and an indictment upon our current system of dressage that she wouldn't be allowed into their ring!
                                Nobody is stopping her from competing, but all competitors have to use dressage legal tack: flash nosebands are not allowed with double bridles. What makes you think she's interested in competition?

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by CandyHaasch View Post
                                  This is remarkably well done dressage
                                  That is your opinion.
                                  But I believe her transitions are rather poor, her piaffe is often incorrect/hollow/out/dragging feet, the flying change was bad, the pirouette aren't good at all (spinning over the belly) and is an overall ordinary representation of high level dressage.

                                  You might not like what you are seeing in the show ring these days but there are people doing far more better dressage training than that, competitive or not.

                                  and it is a shame and an indictment upon our current system of dressage that she wouldn't be allowed into their ring!
                                  You don't like when riders are in the face of their horse yet you would allow shutting the mouth of a horse with a flash n' curb chain while being ridden with a double?!? Doesn't make any sense to me.
                                  ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                                  Originally posted by LauraKY
                                  I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                                  HORSING mobile training app

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by alibi_18 View Post
                                    Well, sorry to say but yes.

                                    Dressage working trot and western jogging is nothing alike.
                                    Same goes for any collected movement.
                                    It would only confuse the horse and be counter productive if one wish to be competitive and go up the level. That is of course only my opinion. People can do what they want but I doubt anyone at 2d level would want to mix their horse up at that point in their training because most worked really hard to get there!

                                    Don't get me wrong, I know how to appreciate a well trained western horse's jog and lope. I rode western (rider level 3 in the FEQ rider program - which is not that advanced but still...) and I have friends riding western profesionnaly (barrel/reining/pleasure).
                                    A jog (two beats) or a lope (3 beats) would no more confuse your dressage horse than asking for extension or collection in the same gait. LOL it might confuse you...


                                    Paula
                                    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Loping/jogging takes all the power and suspension out of the gaits. They're designed to be the ultimate in energy conservation for long days sortin' cows and ropin' things. Useful for what they are, but not really in line with the goal of maintaining power and energy even when not covering a lot of ground (collection) or channeling that power even when it's almost explosive (extensions).

                                      On an entirely different tack, the OP's vid has some good moments. I still don't understand the flash/double combo though. Not all lightness and joy there.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                                        A jog (two beats) or a lope (3 beats) would no more confuse your dressage horse than asking for extension or collection in the same gait. LOL it might confuse you...


                                        Paula
                                        No.

                                        You might find it funny but it is probably because you don't understand the difference between a good western jog/lope and a good dressage trot/canter.

                                        Let us know if your opinion is still the same when you reach 2d level dressage.
                                        ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                                        Originally posted by LauraKY
                                        I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                                        HORSING mobile training app

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Thank you for your giant assumptions, but I know some horses that go both ways -they trot for their English riders and jog for their Western riders. I have come to realize that our horses are far more versatile than we give them credit for.

                                          I think, as per the emoticon, the individual in the equation that may find it more of a challenge is the rider, not the horse.

                                          Paula
                                          He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                                          Comment

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