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Cesar Parra again?

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  • A friends horse had been punished with backing when he made a mistake. She said it was hard to control him at times because he would get scared, check out and then self punish himself by running backwards. Bleah, poor horse.
    Hillary Rodham Clinton - the peoples choice for president.

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    • Originally posted by Gestalt View Post
      A friends horse had been punished with backing when he made a mistake. She said it was hard to control him at times because he would get scared, check out and then self punish himself by running backwards. Bleah, poor horse.
      Yes, not a sign of good training when a horse chooses to go backward like that. Running backwards is not a natural evasion in a young horse. In a horse that is old enough for Grand Prix it is a repetition of something it has learned.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ButterflyIris View Post
        Just in case no one has posted about the horse's behavior in the W.U. - Apparently Van stopped and began running backwards, or reining back in an extreme manner.... As I was not in the warm-up arena, I was watching the CDI, I was informed that the running-backwards behavior was what scared My Lady and Caesar apologized to her afterwards.
        Now we have a second person who describes a different scenario than what DN reported.

        The first was dressage320: "I was observing the warm up and there was no verbal warning from the steward, and certainly there was no intentional behavior from Cesar Parra..."

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        • Originally posted by Gestalt View Post
          A friends horse had been punished with backing when he made a mistake. She said it was hard to control him at times because he would get scared, check out and then self punish himself by running backwards. Bleah, poor horse.
          It's very hard to convince a horse who has been punished unfairly and jerked backwards to go forwards.

          Unfortunately, at the times that something triggers the horse, the response tends to come back - even many years later. While I suspect I would find CP to be a jerk if I interacted with him from all I've heard/read, I wouldn't necessarily assume he's the cause of the behavior without knowing the horse's history just because I've had to deal with it at a much lower level.
          Originally posted by Silverbridge
          If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

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          • Originally posted by Mardi View Post
            Now we have a second person who describes a different scenario than what DN reported.
            Well, yes, because we have a "first person witness" who was "not in the warm up arena". Curiouser and curiouser....

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            • Yes, not a sign of good training when a horse chooses to go backward like that. Running backwards is not a natural evasion in a young horse.
              you haven't met my horse then...that was his evasion as a youngster...and no, I did not teach it to him. He would do it on the lunge and under saddle until he was further in to his training.
              Humans don’t mind duress, in fact they thrive on it. What they mind is not feeling necessary. –Sebastian Junger

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              • Originally posted by ButterflyIris View Post
                Of course, all I can truly attest to as a first person witness is that Van ran backwards during his test, which I assume is similar to the behavior exhibited during the warm-up.
                Another assumption, apparently, Mardi. Maybe Van the Man was upset after being ridden like a weapon in the warm up.
                Last edited by Eclectic Horseman; Mar. 24, 2013, 08:42 AM.
                "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller

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                • EH, you seem totally convinced that CP intentionally caused a ruckus in the warm-up, for the express purpose of rattling Mikala's mare. And you seem totally convinced he WAS warned by the TD (despite said TD denying she issued a warning).

                  So since you were apparently there and witnessed the episode, perhaps you can enlighten us as to exactly what DID happen.

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                  • As for horses "running backwards" - it is not unknown. Satchmo had a penchant for it at times. There is a well known and popular Dutch WB stallion in the NE with a history of running backwards. And I believe one of Anky's horses had an issue for a while, but can't remember which one.

                    It is definitely shows a lack of harmony between horse and rider.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ButterflyIris View Post
                      Just in case no one has posted about the horse's behavior in the W.U. - Apparently Van stopped and began running backwards, or reining back in an extreme manner, this is a behavior that he repeated in his test, for a very unclear reason. He just seems to shut-down and start backing up with haste. As I was not in the warm-up arena, I was watching the CDI, I was informed that the running-backwards behavior was what scared My Lady and Caesar apologized to her afterwards. Of course, all I can truly attest to as a first person witness is that Van ran backwards during his test, which I assume is similar to the behavior exhibited during the warm-up. I can see this behavior being very frightening or disconcerting to another horse as he does seem sort of 'out of control' during those moments. Just to add, it did not seem as though there was any attempt to sincerely intimidate any other competitor, as this seems to be more a case of Van's bad behavior.
                      That totally makes sense.

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                      • Originally posted by netg View Post
                        While I suspect I would find CP to be a jerk if I interacted with him from all I've heard/read, I wouldn't necessarily assume he's the cause of the behavior without knowing the horse's history just because I've had to deal with it at a much lower level.
                        I bet you wouldn't dislike him. I found him very kind and charming. Also I met up with them last year in May. Van was already pulling this type of thing and they had only purchased the horse a few month earlier. I believe if Cesar was the source his other horses would do the same.

                        I really think things are blown out of proportion here.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DownYonder View Post
                          EH, you seem totally convinced that CP intentionally caused a ruckus in the warm-up, for the express purpose of rattling Mikala's mare. And you seem totally convinced he WAS warned by the TD (despite said TD denying she issued a warning).

                          So since you were apparently there and witnessed the episode, perhaps you can enlighten us as to exactly what DID happen.
                          I never said or even implied that I was there. But my assumptions are as good as anyone else's assumptions. I have some personal knowledge of CP and second hand knowledge from people that I know and trust who know him very well, and on that basis, I do not have a very high opinion of him. I also do not think that the DN story was completely unfounded. I do not believe that DN made up the entire story out of whole cloth.
                          "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller

                          Comment


                          • Running backwards is a serious vice and while some horses have a propensity for it, by the time it becomes a true vice it has been 100% the result of human handling because it's not been dealt with skillfully. When it's the result of a spook, you have little choice but to go with it and ride them out of it but a horse like that you can't make it a big deal. You have to basically just remain calm and get their brain returned to you. And then when the horse returns to you, you just go on like nothing happened. Turn it into a big deal and it really will become a huge hairy big fat deal.

                            When it develops into a serious vice, we called it napping, you have a real problem that is really, really hard to fix. Some years ago I took on a morgan mare who did this. The first time I got on her, she went running backwards. I didn't even have time to get my other foot in the stirrup. I quickly realized she was heading straight for an electric fence (ours was set for 15,000 volt because we had wildlife in the area, so it really hurts when you hit it), but since she was resisting all attempts at redirection, I let her hit it. She bounced forward like she'd been struck by lightning (indeed). Then she tried it again and again by luck she hit it a second time and that was the end of that. Can't say I cured her, but she never did it with me again and she was a decent enough horse but you could never once let her make a decision or she'd try to dominate the rest of the ride. I sold her to a fellow who used her for cattle and she was fine with him. But then I heard he retired the ranch and sold her and that she had started it up with that person. Sometimes, those things never get fixed or if you do manage to get it fixed, the horse needs due diligence for life, with people who know how to deal with it, because they can easily revert.
                            Practice! Patience! Persistence!
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                            • Originally posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
                              I never said or even implied that I was there. But my assumptions are as good as anyone else's assumptions. I have some personal knowledge of CP and second hand knowledge from people that I know and trust who know him very well, and on that basis, I do not have a very high opinion of him. I also do not think that the DN story was completely unfounded. I do not believe that DN made up the entire story out of whole cloth.
                              Thank you for clarifying that you were not there and did not witness the "episode".

                              CP's "reputation" notwithstanding, I am going with the TD's statement over DN's fabricated comment.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Bogey2 View Post
                                you haven't met my horse then...that was his evasion as a youngster...and no, I did not teach it to him. He would do it on the lunge and under saddle until he was further in to his training.
                                Interesting. I've never seen a young horse do that. The ones I've seen, do it after they have been taught how to back, under saddle or are being longed with tight sidereins.
                                With most youngters it's usually the stop and wheel around, if they don't want to go forward. Yours must be special!

                                I'm glad he grew out of it.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by skydy View Post
                                  Interesting. I've never seen a young horse do that. The ones I've seen, do it after they have been taught how to back, under saddle or are being longed with tight sidereins.
                                  With most youngters it's usually the stop and wheel around, if they don't want to go forward. Yours must be special!

                                  I'm glad he grew out of it.
                                  I've seen a young horse do that. Horse in question had not had that much of a 'detailed' start. Longed for a few days then rider kinda hopped on. Pro had ridden horse for a month. And when amateur got horse home, it was pretty obvious that without a super-duty seat, the horse did not 'go' so good. It would get kinda stuck and then shoot backwards. It was pretty obvious to see. Horse was super sucked back all the time.
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                                  • Sad.

                                    Comment


                                    • http://www.eurodressage.com/equestri...dr-cesar-parra

                                      No indication that this behavior appeared in the show ring in Europe.
                                      "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
                                        http://www.eurodressage.com/equestri...dr-cesar-parra

                                        No indication that this behavior appeared in the show ring in Europe.
                                        Maybe the article should have stated: "That horse is badly trained and runs backward sometime so we decided to sell him to a monster who will run into people at horse shows"

                                        ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                                        Originally posted by LauraKY
                                        I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
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                                        • Original Poster

                                          I actually remember this horse showing in Europe with Dorthee Schneider (sp?). I remember thinking Van the Man was a fantastic horse in his very begining GP days, I believe he was scoring 70%'s.

                                          If anyone is interested got to topdressage.tv and search "van the man" for some videos.

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