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Cesar Parra again?

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  • Originally posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
    Who was the witness? One of CP's "posse?" I imagine that verbal warnings may be private not public (as they are in most professions). The Dressage News person may have seen and heard it with his own eyes and ears, and yet the Steward would be unable to confirm it to the public.
    Yellow cards/verbal warnings are not private.
    You can check them on the FEI website.
    ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

    Originally posted by LauraKY
    I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
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    • Originally posted by dressage320 View Post
      I would like to set it straight that I am not a member of Dr. Parra's "Posse" I saw the thread and since I witnessed the warm up I figured I would shed some light on the subject. Everyone else on here seems to be bashing this man based upon inaccurate sources; which I believe to be unfair to anyone regardless if they are a big name or not. I Consulted with both the TD and the show manager because I wanted to base my post on accurate facts. They both denied any verbal warning and Elizabeth Williams, the TD, was actually bothered that Mr. Braddick made these accusations about her giving a warning when she did not.
      Wow, unbelievable. You were just lurking on COTH, saw this thread then found out who the TD and show manager were, went back and asked them then came back and JOINED THE COTH forums to set the record straight.

      That's pretty amazing for an OBJECTIVE bystander!!!
      "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller

      Comment


      • Originally posted by alibi_18 View Post
        Yellow cards/verbal warnings are not private.
        You can check them on the FEI website.
        I believe that a yellow card is a WRITTEN warning.

        http://www.fei.org/sites/default/fil...n_Feb_2011.pdf
        "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller

        Comment


        • Originally posted by dudleyc View Post

          Anyony know what happened?
          I often read the Forum but have little connection with the situations so I don't bother. As I was there and the original post inquired about what happened, I saw nothing wrong with posting the truth about the situation. Forgive me if it is not the truth you were looking for.

          Comment


          • I Consulted with both the TD and the show manager because I wanted to base my post on accurate facts. They both denied any verbal warning and Elizabeth Williams, the TD, was actually bothered that Mr. Braddick made these accusations about her giving a warning when she did not.
            Please clarify, you contacted these people to ask the question after you saw the post about the event on COTH?

            Comment


            • yes, I saw the post on COTH and the article from Dressage News and since I was at the show I went and spoke to them in person.

              Comment


              • This was posted on COTH several days after the incident, so you tracked them down several days later and asked them? This must be very important to you.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Hobbs View Post
                  This was posted on COTH several days after the incident, so you tracked them down several days later and asked them? This must be very important to you.
                  This was posted on the 16th which is two days after the "incident" and I didn't track them down I simply approached them at the show since I was already there.

                  Comment


                  • Not taking sides here, and dont know the party but re dressage320's above comment, that show ran from the 14th through the 17th so yes, it would have been very easy to ask the TD after seeing the post.
                    We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........

                    Comment


                    • Yes, well I know nothing of Cesar Parra and couldn't care less one way or another either, that's why I can't imagine chasing down a couple of show officials to ask them about it......unless of course, I was somehow invested in clearing his name. Perhaps that's just me, anyway, carry-on.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Crockpot View Post
                        Stated as if fact?? AMazing.

                        Anonymous person spouting double? hearsay is not reliable information.

                        We don't know what happened . We only have 2 first hand accounts from named people and it can be confirmed whether or not thay were present for the incident. One from the other rider who did not name names and one from KB who says he witnessed the incident.
                        Please keep in mind these points:

                        1. The person who posted that they spoke to the show officials, actually named them. This adds credibilty to his/her story, because it can be verified. Anyone can ask Ms. Williams (FEI steward) or Mr. Landkamer (show manager) if they were asked about a verbal warning for CP.

                        2. Mr. Braddick did not say he personally witnessed the verbal warning. He named "Dressage-News" as a witness. That could be Mr. Braddick, or Ilse Schwarz (staff member of DN), a photographer for DN, etc. Who knows ? Right now, DN is the less credible of witnesses. Until DN produces official confirmation that a verbal warning was given, or the actual witness comes forward, their assertion is vulnerable.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Hobbs View Post
                          Yes, well I know nothing of Cesar Parra and couldn't care less one way or another either, that's why I can't imagine chasing down a couple of show officials to ask them about it......unless of course, I was somehow invested in clearing his name. Perhaps that's just me, anyway, carry-on.
                          Interesting. Just because it's meaningless to you, doesn't mean that it's meaningless to others. Fair play and accurate reporting are important to equestrian sports. Even when it involves a very unpopular rider.

                          Comment


                          • Right now, DN is the less credible of witnesses. Until DN produces official confirmation that a verbal warning was given, or the actual witness comes forward, their assertion is vulnerable.
                            Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I don't see how DN is less credible than some anonymous poster who registered on COTH specifically so they could post on this thread. Who is this person? Should I take their word that they were at the show, that they talked to the officials? When it comes to anonymous internet postings that can not be confirmed, I prefer to remain skeptical. At least DN has something to lose if it's proven they fabricated the story....anonymous internet poster, not so much.

                            Comment


                            • I actually think both could be correct. The TD could have walked up to CP and told him to ride more carefully, but done so "unofficially"/without calling it an official Verbal Warning, if what he was doing was not the most sporting but yet not to the level of being dangerous. Kind of a warning before the Warning, if you get what I mean.
                              Caitlin
                              *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
                              http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

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                              • Originally posted by Hobbs View Post
                                Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I don't see how DN is less credible than some anonymous poster who registered on COTH specifically so they could post on this thread. Who is this person? Should I take their word that they were at the show, that they talked to the officials? When it comes to anonymous internet postings that can not be confirmed, I prefer to remain skeptical. At least DN has something to lose if it's proven they fabricated the story....anonymous internet poster, not so much.
                                Think for a minute.
                                The story told by the "anonymous poster who registered on COTH specifically so they could post on this thread" CAN be confirmed, if someone wants to. That poster gave the names of the officials he/she talked to. Anyone - you, me, Santa Claus - can ASK THOSE OFFICIALS for the truthful story. Maybe they'll back up the anonymous poster's claim, maybe they won't. But at least there are named officials as a source.

                                DN has nothing to lose here, even if their allegation about a verbal warning is false. They are also flying the anonymous flag. Mr. Braddick purposely left out the name of the actual witness - making them anonymous - thereby shielding the witness from any accusation of false reporting.

                                It's disheartening to hear that DN is being given more credence, when they are the ones who, so far, have chosen not to verify their claim.
                                Last edited by Mardi; Mar. 19, 2013, 11:13 PM.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by RedMare01 View Post
                                  I actually think both could be correct. The TD could have walked up to CP and told him to ride more carefully, but done so "unofficially"/without calling it an official Verbal Warning, if what he was doing was not the most sporting but yet not to the level of being dangerous. Kind of a warning before the Warning, if you get what I mean.
                                  Agreed. It very well could have happened that way.

                                  Comment


                                  • DN has alot to lose, their credibility for one. They are not the publication that only accepts "paid for articles" like Dressage Daily. In my opinion, that rates them above the rest. We attack them for what they see but praise people that are propped up by paid for Press Releases.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
                                      I believe that a yellow card is a WRITTEN warning.

                                      http://www.fei.org/sites/default/fil...n_Feb_2011.pdf
                                      And your point is???

                                      The FEI also gives verbal warnings...which are recorded and public.
                                      ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                                      Originally posted by LauraKY
                                      I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                                      HORSING mobile training app

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                                      • Originally posted by alibi_18 View Post
                                        And your point is???

                                        The FEI also gives verbal warnings...which are recorded and public.
                                        I could not verify that on their site as I did with yellow cards. My point is that you equated the two, and the FEI website makes it clear that verbal warnings are for conduct less severe than conduct warranting a yellow card. You can see the yellow cards given posted on the FEI website because they are public. Can you post a link to the verbal warnings that you claim are also public?
                                        "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller

                                        Comment


                                        • But, but ....dressage is all about training...not horse showing, remember?
                                          Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"

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