• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Are these pasterns too long?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    Well, yes, it can happen.

    But this horse? With this training? The system that produced this muscling? No. The OP said something about the owner not paying anymore...something tells me he's not had the same training system as a good Young Horse campaigner. Something (i.e. the muscling) suggests (screams?) that this horse is not ready for canter pirouettes or passage under saddle.

    Originally posted by alibi_18 View Post
    With the right horse, right trainer and the right training system, 6yrs old schooling working pirouette, the beginning of passage and piaffe is not pushing the horse, especially a PRE.

    PSG horses can be 7yrs old. GP's 8.
    At the SRS, the horses are expected to be fully trained by 10yrs old for their carrousel.

    Young horses do develop in a uneven way. They don't grow up evenly either. It is normal. It needs to be adressed, but young stallions will develop their neck way more than their bum.

    I haven't seen this horse moving at liberty or under saddle so I can't judge if he's FEI material or not.
    Proud member of the Colbert Dressage Nation

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by J-Lu View Post
      Well, yes, it can happen.

      But this horse? With this training? The system that produced this muscling? No. The OP said something about the owner not paying anymore...something tells me he's not had the same training system as a good Young Horse campaigner. Something (i.e. the muscling) suggests (screams?) that this horse is not ready for canter pirouettes or passage under saddle.
      OP didn't say why the owner wouldn't pay for the horse no more. But someone paid for this horse to be trained up to that level.

      You can say whatever, you don't know for real, unless you've seen it moving with or without a rider.

      Schooling pirouette is not doing pirouette. Schooling passage is not doing passage.
      And for PRE, it is easier than for the WB.

      I think we can only suggest the OP to have a PPE with a vet and get video/go try the horse with her trainer.
      ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

      Originally posted by LauraKY
      I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
      HORSING mobile training app

      Comment


      • #23
        I don't think the pasterns are too long, but to me he looks to have a slight club foot on the right front. This may account for the unevenness in the front pasterns you are seeing. I also do not care for the underneck.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #24
          The training on him has stopped quite a few months ago. The guy riding him gets on him only once in a while (he's not the owner). Hence the lack of any sort of muscling. He is a bit thin. I think it shows more on the video.
          btw - guy riding him is quite tall.
          Canter clip:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqPWoxTXeqk
          Trot clip:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeSkllCWm1A

          I did ride him. He has a freedom of movement that I like. He's willing to go and to try and to listen (excellent temperament). His canter collects so naturally and easily, I could feel it was there. He doesn't carry much weight behind now but I can excuse that due to the lack of muscling. I know there are better horses out there, but I have a small budget, so many of them aren't available to me.
          He will get snipped if I end up getting him.
          Vet's going out to see him today for initial review. Owner had him trimmed so vet could evaluate better. He knows I'm worried about the front pasterns most. But I do have a number 2 choice in the wings.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #25
            Originally posted by GraceLikeRain View Post
            I think his pasterns are less concerning than other aspects of his conformation. However, uneven dropping of the pasterns in a young horse would be worrisome. Is the unevenness present even when he is recently (and correctly) trimmed and shod?
            The owner trimmed and shod him. So the vet is going to see him today for initial evaluation. He was stepping unevenly in front mostly at the walk when I went to see him. LF was growing a little wonky. I think trimming would correct the shortstepping I saw at the walk due to LF and probably the RH slight unevenness at the trot. But I don't know if the dropping LF pastern would be corrected with the trim, or if it's due to an injury or damage.
            Hopefully the vet will say yay or nay.
            I'm just worried about long term soundness potential. Soft tissue injuries scare me, having a mare (now 20) who is dealing with suspensory issues in back.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by FEIwannabe View Post
              The training on him has stopped quite a few months ago. The guy riding him gets on him only once in a while (he's not the owner). Hence the lack of any sort of muscling. He is a bit thin. I think it shows more on the video.
              btw - guy riding him is quite tall.
              Canter clip:
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqPWoxTXeqk
              Trot clip:
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeSkllCWm1A

              I did ride him. He has a freedom of movement that I like. He's willing to go and to try and to listen (excellent temperament). His canter collects so naturally and easily, I could feel it was there. He doesn't carry much weight behind now but I can excuse that due to the lack of muscling. I know there are better horses out there, but I have a small budget, so many of them aren't available to me.
              He will get snipped if I end up getting him.
              Vet's going out to see him today for initial review. Owner had him trimmed so vet could evaluate better. He knows I'm worried about the front pasterns most. But I do have a number 2 choice in the wings.
              If you like him, PPE him and get him. The soundest horse can go sideways in a moment - in truth you can't hedge against the future. It's all speculation. And as to whether you can go to PSG with this horse -a) why the heck not? b)man plans God laughs so you should enjoy the journey.

              And finally -IMO it's important to get a horse you can ride and want to ride.

              YMMV of course -these are ethereal opinions by online experts -worth their weight in gold.

              ETA: I rode one of those PRE stallions in classical lessons last year and watching your videos just made me go daaaaaammmn as my mind recalled how smooooooth it was. So there's my bias.

              Paula
              Last edited by paulaedwina; Mar. 13, 2013, 09:48 AM. Reason: grammar -God laughs
              He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

              Comment


              • #27
                Well I do wish you the best of luck with your PPE. Sounds like you like this guy and have a connection with him. With horses there are no guarantees and no crystal ball. If you do end up purchasing him probably starting over to make sure he develops correctly and gets more strength in his hind end would be a big benefit. It will help him to stay sound.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Watched some of the woman riding. Looks like it could be a bit of bridle lameness to me.

                  As far as buying. A lot would depend on the price and the vet check. Every horse is a gamble and I've yet to find one yet with perfect conformation.

                  JMHO
                  Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Find somthing else to spend your time and money on....

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      OP, if you don't buy him, would you pass his info along to me via PM?

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #31
                        Originally posted by CFFarm View Post
                        Watched some of the woman riding. Looks like it could be a bit of bridle lameness to me.
                        That'd be me. I admit, I was holding him quite a bit, especially at first. The horse I rode the previous day needed much shorter reins and a lot more contact than I had, so he ran thru me at first. So when I got on this guy, I had more contact than he needed. I loosened up the contact a little about halfway into the ride and he got softer and more nicely forward.
                        I'm just a TL/1st-ish rider and it takes me a few rides to get used to a horse. So that's why temperament is so important. He has to be tolerant of me learning on him.
                        However the guy riding is a very good and soft upper level rider/trainer.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by FEIwannabe View Post
                          That'd be me. I admit, I was holding him quite a bit, especially at first. The horse I rode the previous day needed much shorter reins and a lot more contact than I had, so he ran thru me at first. So when I got on this guy, I had more contact than he needed. I loosened up the contact a little about halfway into the ride and he got softer and more nicely forward.
                          I'm just a TL/1st-ish rider and it takes me a few rides to get used to a horse. So that's why temperament is so important. He has to be tolerant of me learning on him.
                          However the guy riding is a very good and soft upper level rider/trainer.
                          Girl, you know you want him. Stop being coy -PPE the boy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXmLRHnoSAs

                          Paula
                          He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            I watched more clips on your channel. Here's what I've concluded. You need to choose which is more important to you (there's no wrong answer) 1. Making it past the numbers some day 2. Enjoying this horse.
                            He looks like a very sane fellow with really awful gaits. A year with a great trainer riding him may be able to purify things to a point you may see 3rd one day on him. All pres are charming, sane, light and rideable. If this is your first time on one, or on a horse with many buttons, I suggest you sit on several more before writing a check.

                            The collecting feeling you were probably getting was not him loading and shortening but probably just toe flipping.

                            Again, if you love him and are willing to sacrifice your goals for much much lower ones, go for it. There's nothing wrong with giving a sweet horse a good home.
                            www.destinationconsensusequus.com
                            chaque pas est fait ensemble

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              I think I would be more concerned about the fact that he has a rather massive front end compared to his legs or hind end - that is quite a neck and shoulder. He is going to have to get really strong behind to be able to lift his front end very much. But if he has the temperament and "try" you want, and your aspirations don't include GP at a national level, he may work out just fine for you.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                This is a nice horse for his type. Sure, he's been out of work a bit, but I bet its reflected in his price

                                I would get X-rays of the front feet and have them evaluated by a vet that specializes in shoeing evaluation (pm me if you need some names, should be about $50).

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Collecting the canter and not taking weight on the hind end are oxymorons. Collection can't happen without loading the rear end and compressing. Otherwise it is a slow canter perhaps but not collected.
                                  RoseLane Sportponies
                                  Golden State - 2012 Bundeschampion & 2014 USDF Horse of the Year
                                  Golden West - 2014 & 2015 Bundeschampion Pony Stallion
                                  Petit Marc Aurel- FEI Dressage Pony Stallion

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    I don't think he has 'awful" gaits or terrible conformation.

                                    His conformation fits with an Andalusian who is out of condition.

                                    Those who are crapping on his conformation and movement - go look at confo pix and vids of PREs.

                                    They don't look like wbs.


                                    I don't think his pasterns are too long but his feet needed attention. very high heels for whatever reason- only vet and farrier can assess that.

                                    He goes reasonably well for the male rider-less so for the female rider- that may not be the horse's fault.

                                    I'd be more concerned about this than anything else:



                                    He was stepping unevenly in front mostly at the walk when I went to see him. LF was growing a little wonky. I think trimming would correct the shortstepping I saw at the walk due to LF and probably the RH slight unevenness at the trot. But
                                    .

                                    Certainly a detailed PPE would be in order if consdiering him. Although, I doubt I'd ever spend money on a PPE for a horse that was unsound at the walk.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Totally agree, Crockpot.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        honestly - no one can answer - because the ability of a horse to reach FEI is more about the horse and rider combo than anything.

                                        i would get on him and ride him - if i liked what i felt i would call the vet and have them take a look. if i still liked what i saw i would give it a go.

                                        most horses can reach 4th with the right person on their back. some will take more work than others. if you have a good patient trainer and you are determined you will get to where you want to go.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          From what I can see in the video;

                                          I really don't think it is that awful. This is a long legged PRE that has no muscle tone. There's only as much you can do with 1 ride per week or so for the past...?!

                                          I would have the vet check the stiffles. It is his weakest part.
                                          The back is moving freely, he his crossing his legs quite good and he tries hard in the canter, lifting his shoulders/wither. I was expecting a sewing machine...but he has a long stride.

                                          Get him some muscles, a new correct shoeing job and voilà!
                                          (and now Yes, he needs some groceries!!!)

                                          He is more stable with his trainer than with you, where he get tense and short strided because you are just not asking him anything he really understand, so that is why he seems to be uneven.

                                          I would vet him.

                                          Unless there is a problem from now to then, I see no reason why you wouldn't make it up to PSG with this guy. At least schooling at that level.

                                          But who knows really?
                                          ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                                          Originally posted by LauraKY
                                          I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                                          HORSING mobile training app

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X