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Current " Modern Master"

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  • Original Poster

    #41
    Originally posted by belgianWBLuver View Post
    Julio Borba Jr. is a real "blue-blood" of classical eq, having been born to an established horse family and having it in his genes. He trained with many of the Portugese and French greats including his dad of the same name, Luis Valencia and the very well-known (in Europe) Dr Guillerme Borba who rode many many years under Nuno Oliveira and was also instumental running the Portugese classical school (Escola Portuguesa de Arte Equestre) and in helping to start the Jerez School of Equitation.
    I saw the young Borba ride when he was a kid several years ago when I was working in Portugal as a groom, and he was good then. Now he is fast making a name for himself. He has a website with dates for his clinics and, yes he is scheduled for the states.
    Not to mention that as a young man now, he is really handsome, or as the gals say here in the states, smokin hot
    Yes, he is a severe cutie, no doubt. But he is currently engaged, according to my friend who is (trying) to host the clinic here in the US.

    Still, prior to his engagement, he did a clinic here in the US and a number of the local DQ's rode with him. Surprisingly, they seemed under-whelmed. All of these gals show actively and winning is important and I'm not sure how much (if any)this has to do with it, but my friend is struggling to find enough riders to make the summer clinic a "go."

    To be honest, I haven't really discussed the reasons at length with any of them. I don't always agree with them anyway as to what constitutes the kind of riding we should aspire to and neither does my friend, but from looking at the videos, I like what I see in Julio.

    But good riding is not good teaching and I think one of the needed attributes of a "Master" is teaching ability. He/she need to have the talent to ride AND the talent to lead the way to others. A good Master will (eventually) have better students.

    So maybe he's not a great teacher? And if he came on to all these independant American gals with the swagger one might expect from a seriously handsome Latino gentleman...well, I could see where they would bust him for that.

    I can't ride in the clinic but I would sure love to audit it if it happens. This area is tough for clinicians, because it's so rural.

    And here's a tidbit of info that I did not know: "Julio" is pronounced "Who-lee-o" here; the "j" is an "h". But apparently this is not the case in Portuguese. It is pronounced as a "j". My friend says Julio gets very irritated being called Hulio.

    Anyway, he seems to be a very elegant young rider from the videos and certainly has the pedigree. AND he IS very cute; never a bad thing. My friend (a straight male incidentally) treated himself to 2 weeks in Portugal riding at his school and just loved it.

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by belgianWBLuver View Post
      Who is the “riding into the light French Guy” you are referring to?? I know an American who wrote a book with the same title but he’s not French…
      She means Belasik. The only people that think of him as a master need to see the light.

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by belgianWBLuver View Post
        (Oh and in some schools women are rare so its even more special breaking into the "boy's club" environment.)
        Why would you want/admire that?

        Comment


        • #44
          You know, I haven’t seen a clinic given by him yet – true he is a really good rider - but maybe he isn’t a good teacher in our American sense. I remember people sitting in the tribunes at Oliveira’s saying they could never ride with him because he didn’t actively “teach”. I beg to differ, he taught if a student needed direction or was in trouble with something. He also taught if the student was doing a really high level exercise like Passage, piaffe, airs above, etc…
          Jose d’Atayde “taught” the same way. So does Michel Henriquet.
          Granted a clinic is not the at home environment and one must really concentrate and adapt the teaching style to a private one on one lesson. Maybe Borba has a hard time with that. I’ll have to see a clinic to know for sure.

          In French we pronounce the “J” also so its not so difficult to remember the Portuguese pronunciation because it’s the same. But here in the states we are so inundated with the Spanish language that we forget. He’ll just have to get over it…

          Its a really nice trip to go over to Portugal and ride at some of the schools. Borba, Luis Valencia, Morgado Lusitano, George Malleroni's school at Alcainca, etc.. (these are some of the really good and proven schools but there are many many others). Its neet to go the the Golega fair in November of each year and see some of the best horseflesh around along with some very famous riders for all over the world. (one year Isabel Werth was there riding a gorgeous lusitano horse, another year I saw Sylvia Loch - what a treat !!)

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by cnm161 View Post
            Why would you want/admire that?
            because it takes fortitude and patience both of which I learned working in those kinds of environments. You know you can't just appentice at a "Masters" school especially as a gal and think you are going to prove to everyone how good you are. Not only do you get put in your place for your lack of knowledge but you also get licked down a peg solely because you are a woman, even today...
            Its a difficult concept for American women to grasp. These are latin countries and machisme still reines. The key to success is to keep your mouth shut and work and ride and learn. You improve and gain respect, you work with or start a very difficult youngster and succeed. The master of the school takes notice and has discussions with you about a specific horse. The boy's club starts to speak to you. But you don't give a "rat's p" because the bottom line is that you have met your own personal goal in learning how to work a horse the traditional, thorough, and slow way.

            Comment


            • #46
              Carole Grant.
              First, I believe, to get individual and team gold medals at Pan Am Games.
              Excellent clinician.

              Comment


              • #47
                ... Why would you want/admire that?

                because it takes fortitude and patience both of which I learned working in those kinds of environments. You know you can't just appentice at a "Masters" school especially as a gal and think you are going to prove to everyone how good you are. Not only do you get put in your place for your lack of knowledge but you also get licked down a peg solely because you are a woman, even today
                Thanks for explaining why you think this is so admirable!

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by Crockpot View Post
                  Thanks for explaining why you think this is so admirable!
                  Meh - I wont get roped into this one - its off topic and negative lets not turn this nice and informative thread into a popcorn/wine affair!!

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
                    I'll do my best! I found her through Paul.
                    She is currently located in NC and I have lessoned with her many times with great success. She's mentioned growing up with Wofford, and then Lendon, and has spent the past 13 years learning from Belasik. She's on the board for the USPC (iirc), and is a stickler for proper, fair, firm and safe.
                    She's also a balimo instructor and brings her knowledge of how the body works into the lessons. Her barn is full of a variety of breeds, all of which have climbed the levels on classical principle.

                    I can give you her contact info if you'd like.
                    I'd really like to know where she clinics and when so I can perhaps go to see her. Do you know where she posts this info? I'm not a big fan of Belasik but I have been impressed with some of his students, so this would be someone to see.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by ToN Farm View Post
                      She means Belasik. The only people that think of him as a master need to see the light.
                      Dominique Barbier as well. These people achieve some notoriety as authors, but do not quite have the kind of credentials that the OP is looking for.

                      But..

                      There does appear to be a deficiency in the number of women Masters, despite women's dominance in the last few decades. So--

                      what about Kyra Kirkland? Or Lendon Grey?
                      Last edited by Eclectic Horseman; Mar. 15, 2013, 10:08 AM.
                      "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by AndalusianMom View Post
                        Carole Grant.
                        First, I believe, to get individual and team gold medals at Pan Am Games.
                        Excellent clinician.
                        Thanks I didn't know her either and her website is really nice. She trained with the famous Harry Boldt, the Reiner Kilmke among others.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
                          Dominique Barbier as well. These people achieve some notoriety as authors, but do not quite have the kind of credentials that the OP is looking for.
                          Totally agree, I've seen Barbier a couple of times and I give him a big Meh. All talk and no impressive results. While he works all different types of horses they all seem to have no impulsion. We had this discussion in the " french school spinoff thread". In France we call them Charlatans - that translates pretty well here

                          Originally posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
                          But..

                          There does appear to be a deficiency in the number of women Masters, despite women's dominance in the last few decades. So--

                          what about Kyra Kurkland? Or Lendon Grey?
                          Both I think! there's also Sylvia Loch - but she doesn't meet the OP's criteria because she does not come here to the states nor does she compete.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            This reminds me of an old thread listing requirements for ODGs. Some other things on the list were:

                            must have european accent
                            must be male
                            must wear cape or funny hat
                            fat white pony optional

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Carole Grant teaches well, is all business, positive. Great exercises, immediate positive results, gives good "homework" and food for thought. Even though some of her "theories" were very different from mine, we were able to work very constructively.
                              She talks ALOT with her hands - for me it is a MUST!

                              Great thread, thanks.
                              Horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
                              ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                It was Dominic Barbier I meant who did the riding into the light book. I ended up with a mare another woman had "rescued" from him as well as a stallion. No impulsion, no kidding. He says he can ride them on a string or something--that's because they were terrified of the mouth. The mare had DENTS in the bars of her mouth. My dentist had never seen anything like it. Super talented, but absolutely refused to touch the bit. She flipped over backwards on my when I pushed it once and tried to get her to move into contact, in a snaffle.

                                Kyra Kyrklund is the master of the world. Love her. She's still competing, though. The only reason more women aren't on these lists is because they're all still competing!

                                Maybe you saw DeKunffy once ride a difficult horse. That's not the same as these masters, or whatever you want to call them, who have competed in top sport on horses they've trained over and over, taught others to compete, and started horses for others to compete. WHOLE different world.

                                The epitome of dressage to me is a super well trained horse, and the masters can bring that out. The epitome is a horse that can compete at the top of the work as a police horse, which is why Balkenhol rules, and I love people like Ingrid Klimke. If my GP horse can't open a gate, hit the trails, ride in a parade and do the GP test and stay sound, I don't think I've done a good job training. I think masters produce horses and people that do this.
                                Last edited by Beentheredonethat; Mar. 14, 2013, 01:49 AM.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Here in the PNW, we call Dr. Thomas Ritter a convicted pedophile, not A Master. This is not fiction. It is a matter of public record and his young working students were the victims. Sorry to be a "downer" for this thread, but I feel strongly that this sort of thing needs to be exposed in this industry.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by Crockpot View Post
                                    This reminds me of an old thread listing requirements for ODGs. Some other things on the list were:

                                    must have european accent
                                    must be male
                                    must wear cape or funny hat
                                    fat white pony optional
                                    Too funny. Have you seen DeKnuffy's website? Check. Check. Check. Check.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by arlosmine View Post
                                      Here in the PNW, we call Dr. Thomas Ritter a convicted pedophile, not A Master. This is not fiction. It is a matter of public record and his young working students were the victims. Sorry to be a "downer" for this thread, but I feel strongly that this sort of thing needs to be exposed in this industry.
                                      Yikes. He did go to Germany didn't he? I hope so. (Not that I wish Germany any harm..)

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Yes, Dr. Tomas Riter did go to Germany. I am unclear whether he did so to avoid jail time or as a condition of his conviction. It is amazing to me that the dressage community is either as oblivious as they seem to be about this man's despicable nature, or that they know but look the other way. He is a sex offender who took advantage of his position of power. Regardless of his other "skills" (IMHO his skills are limited to literary ones), he does not deserve to be supported in any way by the horse community.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by arlosmine View Post
                                          It is amazing to me that the dressage community is either as oblivious as they seem to be about this man's despicable nature, or that they know but look the other way.
                                          Or maybe they know he was set up and plead out in order to avoid an expensive lengthly court battle.

                                          Comment

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