• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Hands?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Hands?

    Just watching this awesome horse and it was hard for me to NOT watch the rider's hands. So busy, and looks at times to be pulling on the horses mouth.

    Coming from a saddle seat background, it is very difficult for me to watch constant hand movement. In my world a pinky wiggle on the curb or simply raising or dropping hands is all that's needed. The colt I'll be showing this year I have to be careful to stay out of his mouth because he's so light and responsive to the tiniest cue. Granted, I am not asking my horses for canter pirouettes and such.

    Comments?

  • #2
    Half halts. It's a dressage thing. Granted the aim in dressage is to make all aids invisible. But in a show atmosphere, sometimes one needs to be a little more emphatic.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller

    Comment


    • #3
      I love that her curb rein has a bit of a loop in it. I hope my hands can be that "bad" someday.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by shakeytails View Post
        Granted, I am not asking my horses for canter pirouettes and such.
        You're probably not asking for transitions within the gaits, either, or for movements at exact spots, or for major collection. Half-halts are part of dressage. Sometimes they require more hand, sometimes they don't.
        Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.

        Comment


        • #5
          They do move a lot don't they?

          For comparison why not post the junior league eq championships http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YibYhcmK3S0 .

          The eq championship consists of a rail portion and then a pattern. This is 2010 and it is timing me out, or I would try to list the pattern.

          I have some theories but my dressage experience was long ago and not extensive.
          Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
          Incredible Invisible

          Comment


          • #6
            You cannot compare the two. They are apples and, I don't know, dishwashers.
            Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by SaddleFitterVA View Post
              I love that her curb rein has a bit of a loop in it. I hope my hands can be that "bad" someday.
              Me too!

              Comment


              • #8
                Honestly I saw just as much hand movement in the eq class as with Damon Hill, although in the eq class it was more up and down. I hardly think you can say any of the riders were being harsh, but that JMO.

                Comment


                • #9
                  At saddle seat, you get a curb shank that is about a mile long, a bit that is probably twisted wire or even bicycle chain, and you don't ask the horse to do anything other than walk, trot, and canter, change direction, and repeat.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You may as well compare roping riders to dressage. Those are some seriously long shanks on the Weymouths, the curb reins all seem quite tight, there is nowhere near the precision required in that pattern.

                    I also don't want hands like any of those riders. Wrong discipline, wrong position, and if most of them moved their hands down, it looks like the would be very hard, non-following hands.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by SaddleFitterVA View Post
                      I love that her curb rein has a bit of a loop in it. I hope my hands can be that "bad" someday.
                      Hey, I never said her hands were "bad"! I just like to think of upper level dressage as more fine tuned with fewer visible signals to give the appearance of effortless communication between horse and rider.

                      I know I couldn't ride that animal anywhere close to properly- I'd push the wrong button and be sitting on the ground wondering WTF just happened, LOL!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SillyHorse View Post
                        You cannot compare the two. They are apples and, I don't know, dishwashers.
                        Eh ... the clothes look a little similar.

                        Originally posted by Gloria View Post
                        At saddle seat, you get a curb shank that is about a mile long, and you don't ask the horse to do anything other than walk, trot, and canter, change direction, and repeat.
                        Also, you're not penalized for jigging at the walk or turning your horse's nose to the rail and jigging sideways to get a walk/canter transition.

                        Please note: I am NOT dissing saddleseat in general, nor the young riders in the video in particular. Dressage is just a whole 'nother ballgame. The hands are going to look different because it's a different discipline with different equipment, different standards, etc etc etc.

                        Said Captain Obvious.
                        __________________________
                        "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                        the best day in ten years,
                        you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          In dressage, a still hand can be a restrictive hand. We strive to follow (and in some instances) not follow. The goal is a hand (or elbow) that is elastic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The other thing you probably are not factoring in is there is some *serious* movment to that dressage horse. You really need to compare the hands to the neck and saddle and then decide if there really is much movement in them.

                            Same reason that judges have to look at hocks or elbows if the socks are uneven on a horse to mitigate the fact that the socks *can* make them look a little bit off.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I love her hands. I want to be as precise with my half-halts, as judicious with my curb rein and as kind to my horse with all of my aids as she is to her horse.

                              I never will be, but I can always dream...

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Yes her hands do appear to be active, but look at what her horse is doing! There is a whole lot happening in that arena, it has to happen on the mark, and the count, within the rhythm of the music. And that boy is jumping up! Add to that some horses like to know sometimes that you are there. She is riding on the snaffle.
                                Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                                Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  that video makes me so happy! i love damon hill and i love that he is classically trained and ridden - and it shows.

                                  yes, her hands looked a bit backwards feeling, but who cares? that was one heck of a ride!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I think a little bit of the reason it appears her hands are moving so much is because all the joints of the riders body are moving quite a lot...because the horse is probably quite bouncy to sit. When the rider's hands 'bounce' in exact sync with the horse's gaits it generally does not interrupt the horse's way of going. Unless the rider truly has 'bad' hands. Does the horse look disturbed?
                                    Horses don't lie.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Also, if you watch carefully, there is a lot of give, give, and give in Langehanenberg's hands to encourage the horse to reach out more. The backward feeling some may see is the result of returning to neutral after the giving, and she is giving the horse every chance to be freerer, and the result is quite obvious. That horse would not have moved so brilliantly if that rider were not so generous with her hands. That is completely different from "pulling on the horses' mouth" that is commonly seen in a lot of saddle seat riding even at top levels, where the riders' hands appear to be still, while in reality choking the horses to death. Remember, the horse is moving, so if you hands appear to be "non moving', you are moving against the horse.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I cannot believe that anyone here is critiquing Helen Langehanenburg's use of the hand in her ride. Really?
                                        How many international quality FEI horses have you ridden?
                                        I would love to be able to ride even a little bit like she does. Sheesh! You guys are harsh!

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X