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  • #81
    Originally posted by FLeventer View Post
    I think that the video is beautiful. Actually the most distracting thing about upper level dressage riders to me is the legs. They move their legs quite a bit and it distracts me. I understand that they are using them to cue the horse and obviously to ride, but they are what draws my eye.
    I totally understand that leg movement is necessary to follow the horse, especially an extravagent mover and a sitting trot, but I agree the excessive leg movement can be distracting to the viewer. Watching the last Olympics, I remember clearly wathcing a test where the gal was so busy on her horse I thought "wow, what a way to ruin a pretty picture." I was admittedly surprised when she not only received the loudest crowd approval, but the highest score I'd seen up to that point.

    I will say that during the Olympics I took note of a lot of the range of leg movement forwards and back when cueing the horse. Made mental note that "hmmm... that is acceptable in a good rider" And in breaking my mind set that I should be giving "imperceptable" cues found I got much clearer and better results from my horse after.

    We are always learning


    • #82
      re: legs - while we are always learning and no one is perfect, the ideal *is* a quiet leg... think about if you are the horse - you need to learn to tune out that tap tap tap and listen only when the aid is giving....

      it's kind of like when you see the master of yore jumping and they have a rock solid leg and seat - and many of the top riders today have really not pretty or solid leg -


      • #83
        Originally posted by BigBayHanoMare View Post
        This it not exactly true. While some bloodlines DO show a natural tendency towards lateral movement (therefore pacing rather than trotting), Saddlebreds are on the whole a three-gaited WTC breed. The slow gait and rack are artificial gaits, the horses are trained to do them. A horse that will eventually become a five-gaited horse still needs to have a true, 2 beat trot, but some lateral tendencies.
        The theory behind lateral aids into the canter, as far as I was told, was the thinking that the canter departure is initiated in the front end. That way, turning the haunches towards the center causes the outside shoulder to be blocked by the rail, forcing the horse to reach out with the inside fore and pick up the correct lead.
        It's a quick and dirty way to get a horse onto the correct lead; I almost always see it used when an unbalanced green horse is being run into the canter though.

        The whole explanation could all just have been someone blowing smoke up my rear too. Who knows.

        ETA- Oop, used the wrong quote, can't figure how to fix it though. Oh well.


        • #84
          Yep I see that a lot on greenies and people will counter bend to get the lead.
          Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole


          • #85
            Originally posted by nhwr View Post
            Actually I have ridden a few Donnerhall offspring. For as much as he was used, you'd think there'd be more of them in the international ring.
            You're kidding, right?

            WBFSH 2012 Dressage Sire Rankings
            #1 De Niro (Donnerhall son who showed to Grand Prix)
            #5 Donnerhall
            #7 Don Schufro (Donnerhall son and Olympic team bronze medalist)

            WBFSH 2011 Dressage Sire Rankings
            #6 De Niro
            #7 Donnerhall

            WBFSH 2010 Dressage Sire Rankings
            #2 Donnerhall
            #5 De Niro

            WBFSH 2009 Dressage Sire Rankings
            #2 Donnerhall

            WBFSH 2008 Dressage Sire Rankings
            #2 Donnerhall

            That is as far back as WBFSH has currently published on its website. Donnerhall led the rankings for quite some years until he was overtaken by Jazz.

            And there were a slew of Donnerhall kids and grandkids that were officially nominated for the London Olympics (IIRC, six were by De Niro).

            And at this year's CDI Dortmund, De Niro offspring took 1st, 2nd and 4th in the GP, and 1st, 2nd, and 5th in the GPS. And a son of Donnershlag (another GP Donnerhall son) finished in 11th place in the GP. http://www.eurodressage.com/equestri...3-cdi-dortmund

            Don't forget that Donnerhall was born in 1981 and died in early 2002. His last foal crops were small due to declining fertility, so not a lot of them out there. And you would not have seen his very best offspring here - the German professional riders tended to try to snap them up. They aren't as fancy/flashy as offspring of the current hot young sires, but they are very diligent workers and can handle collection - two very necessary traits for success at upper levels.


            • #86
              Originally posted by partlycloudy View Post
              I ride a lot of different horses, different breeds, different levels. Some have a lot of head and neck movement, some have less. Some really swing their backs, some not so much. The amount of movement in the hands is all dependent on the amount of movement in the horse...how much up and down and how much back and forth. The hands are to belong to the horse's mouth...hence the more movement in the horse, the more the hands will appear to move. you really can't say the 'so and so's' hands are quieter when they are riding a different horse....you would have to compare on the same horse.
              The saddleseat riders are sitting on an entirely different animal...entirely differently trained and riding in an entirely different seat...you just can't compare the two.
              My point exactly. "As little as possible, as much as necessary". Sometimes just keeping a horse's attention in a large, electrified arena is difficult enough. Yes, I agree a lot of riders over-cue but I'm sure when facing 3 or 5 judges one is trying to be as invisible as possible. Not an easy task especially when the horse is on the muscle.
              Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"


              • #87
                Originally posted by SmartAlex View Post
                I will say that during the Olympics I took note of a lot of the range of leg movement forwards and back when cueing the horse. Made mental note that "hmmm... that is acceptable in a good rider" And in breaking my mind set that I should be giving "imperceptable" cues found I got much clearer and better results from my horse after.

                We are always learning
                There are a lot of cues they are giving that are truly imperceptible. It is just that we only see the ones that are perceptible. There are tons going on apart from the movements of hands and legs. We won't see the slight tightening of one part of one thigh, slight shift (maybe just half inch) of seat, slight shift of weight aid (maybe just 4 once differences between seat bones), different engagements of rider's core at every stride, and so on and so forth. Some big differences between us and the great riders are, while their cues may be invisible, ours attempting the same exercises will be very visible; and while every cue that are given by them is crystal clear and precise, ours tend to be muffled, multiple unnecessary cues all jumbled together.

                What is funny is, since their cues are mostly invisible, when those cues that ARE visible are present, we see them like through a magnifying glass; and since ours tend to be all jumbled and mumbled together, we don't see them as clearly.


                • #88
                  Originally posted by Gloria View Post
                  ...and while every cue that are given by them is crystal clear and precise, ours tend to be muffled, multiple unnecessary cues all jumbled together. .
                  Guilty as charged! LOL!

                  And horses are (well, the ones who are paying attention anyway) very in tune to subtle "clues" in their riders. Half my ride time is probably spent trying to figure out what secret clues my horse is picking up on that I don't know I'm sending so I'm not asking for one thing and getting frustrated that I'm getting something else. I think this might be more pronounced in a horse, like my current one, who has been ridden by one person and one person only his entire life. When I can break an activity down into "left seat bone, right heel, open rein" and then follow my own program consistently... so my horse doesn't pull up, flick his ear back and say "but you told me to"


                  • #89
                    Wow...fabulous horse and beautiful rider.I'd kill to have that feel.


                    • #90
                      There is nothing more humbling than taking you "skills" to a PSG schoolmaster and be unable to get him to do anything intentionally because of your muddy, muffled, imprecise cues. I tell people if Tempi could speak, he'd have a conversation with me that went something like,

                      "Yeah...I really have no idea what you're saying. How about we do this alphabetically; canter? No. Okay, passage? No. Okay...I got nothin'".

                      He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).